[Na5aSide] Semi Finals - Deadline 11/12/13

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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crazyboy11 said:
It's easy to make villains out of the Crumepteers here, but let me give you some information that means this wasn't us trying to be dicks.

- We had less time than Scars team to prepare our team for this match, folms told them first.
- When we agreed to play, we also only had 4 players, our 5th turned up in time.
- We waited almost 30 minutes past the agreed starting time and their last player still only turned up in the last 4 rounds.
- The match was already being played past the deadline so no-one has any right to complain about being forced to play.
- Yeah sure, you obviously asked us if we can play but you don't even know if you have enough players yourself, makes sense. On top of that, I was busy trying to get a 5th player.
- Don't see how this point helps, the match was still unfair.
- You didn't wait 30 minutes, but 15 mins because the rules force you to do so if I'm not mistaken.
- Don't see the point in playing the match at 11pm, we could have played it yesterday and it wouldn't have made a difference. The deadline for the finals is 22/12/13.
 

Liwi

Master Knight
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My point was made from what Folms wrote, crazyboy. He pretty much took all the blame in the first sentences ("it truly was my fault", " It was unfair for Scar's team"), but then wrote that a re-match makes no sense. While in reality it would obviously solve the issue in a way that would give justice to both sides.

In my opinion, even giving TD a default win would be a better option and far more consistent with what he wrote than saying "it was my fault and really unfair" and still taking the win. It's not about who is "the villain" (though the chat alone from the result screens might give a hint) but about consistency with what you should stand for as an organizer. I don't really see what your points change about that.
 

crazyboy11

Baron
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Liwi said:
My point was made from what Folms wrote, crazyboy. He pretty much took all the blame in the first sentences ("it truly was my fault", " It was unfair for Scar's team"), but then wrote that a re-match makes no sense. While in reality it would obviously solve the issue in a way that would give justice to both sides.

In my opinion, even giving TD a default win would be a better option and far more consistent with what he wrote than saying "it was my fault and really unfair" and still taking the win. It's not about who is "the villain" (though the chat alone from the result screens might give a hint) but about consistency with what you should stand for as an organizer. I don't really see what your points change about that.
You seem to have missed this bit: "I want to apologise to both sides."

When you look at the facts of the match there was no inherent unfairness when it was arranged, everything that was unfair about it was then out of Folms' control. He apologised for it because it's the considerate thing to do, but that doesn't mean the match was in any way invalid. The match was played so the results stand - seems pretty simple to me. It's even in the rules: "If a team cannot make 5 players, at the agreed match time, they must play on regardless. It is up to the other team to decide if they want to postpone the match."
 

+Varsung+

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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And there we have the issue again. I really suggest that matches can`t be arranged 30 minutes beforehand!
 

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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crazyboy11 said:
You seem to have missed this bit: "I want to apologise to both sides."

When you look at the facts of the match there was no inherent unfairness when it was arranged, everything that was unfair about it was then out of Folms' control. He apologised for it because it's the considerate thing to do, but that doesn't mean the match was in any way invalid. The match was played so the results stand - seems pretty simple to me. It's even in the rules: "If a team cannot make 5 players, at the agreed match time, they must play on regardless. It is up to the other team to decide if they want to postpone the match."
This rule applies when both captains actually agreed on a date, which isn't the case here. We got forced to play, I had to gather my team within 15 minutes without any notice beforehand. Please don't try to make it look like this was just a normal match, scheduled under fair circumstances, and I failed to gather my team. As I said, in this case you could have at least given us more time to gather the team, or - considering the deadline for the finals - played against us today for example.

 

crazyboy11

Baron
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~Scar said:
This rule applies when both captains actually agreed on a date, which isn't the case here. We got forced to play, I had to gather my team within 15 minutes without any notice beforehand. Please don't try to make it look like this was just a normal match, scheduled under fair circumstances, and I failed to gather my team. As I said, in this case you could have at least given us more time to gather the team, or - considering the deadline for the finals - played against us today for example.
Are you still trying to make up the rules?

The match time was agreed. Whether by mutual consent of team captains or, in this case, admin intervention. I can assure you that we also only had 15 minutes to gather a team. You claim it was unfair but both teams had the same amount of time to gather players. I would sympathise more with you had we not been forced to play under the same circumstances or had you tried harder to schedule normally.

You come back to the final deadline again, but our match was a semi final and the deadline was the 11th. Add three days to the deadline of the final and we'd end up playing the final at Christmas - the worst time to arrange matches. You also make the assumption that we will be able to field a full team on any day after the deadline - it's easy to make those assumptions. I don't see how either team can complain about being forced to play the day AFTER their own deadline.
 

+Varsung+

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
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You don`t take in mind that TD had to play the match on a Wednesday night at 11 pm German time? Some people do have work the next day and need their sleep.

Also agreed means "discussed or negotiated and then accepted by all parties". I don`t see how you can say that admin intervention means agreed. It`s more "dictated"
 
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What the case seems to be for me is an admin abusing his powers (by chance, an admin who's included in one of the teams' roster  :roll:). I don't think both parties should be arguing vs each other but complaining to the admin(s) since it was actually their fault. An official match can never be arranged just 20 mins beforehand, especially when there's a great possibility that the admin who forced both teams to play knew his team would be able to field the required amount of players while, on the other hand, he didn't care if the other team could do that aswell.

 

Tallie

Baron
WBNW
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In my opinion it should be replayed. I've already told it to Folms, but he didn't see or read it. I really hope it will be replayed cause it was unfair towards Tobende Deutsche. Also playing at 11 PM is an impossible time to play, come on man!
The problem is that I'm just a co-Mod, but if I was Folms, I would've let them replayed it, cause it's just bull**** playing 2v5 or 3v5.
 

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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crazyboy11 said:
Are you still trying to make up the rules?
I'm trying to make up the rules? Ehm, sorry? Elaborate.

crazyboy11 said:
The match time was agreed. Whether by mutual consent of team captains or, in this case, admin intervention.
Do I need to explain you the difference between "forced" and "agreed"? Admin intervention doesn't mean that I agree on the match time, otherwise the administrator would not need to intervene and we would have agreed on that time like everybody else. Agreed means that both captains actually discuss when to play, and then agree on a time that is suitable for both teams.

crazyboy11 said:
I can assure you that we also only had 15 minutes to gather a team. You claim it was unfair but both teams had the same amount of time to gather players.
It's sort of sweet to see how you are trying to make it look like both teams were in the same situation. First of all, I can't judge if you really got forced to play, since the admin that made the decision is part of your team. Let's say you got forced. You had 5 players available, whilst I had only 4. The point you're trying to make is that you had the same time as my team. But, in the end, it ain't difficult to join the correct server within 15 minutes, whilst it is quite difficult to find a 5th player at 11pm without any notice beforehand. I cannot believe you fail to see this point.

crazyboy11 said:
I would sympathise more with you had we not been forced to play under the same circumstances or had you tried harder to schedule normally.
Regarding this point, I was in contact with Folms several times last week, but we never got to agree on an actual date, since both team were busy preparing for the IG vs AE Match in the ECS (you, Folms and Corey playing for IG and the majority of my team playing for AE). I just guess you aren't even aware of the whole situation.

crazyboy11 said:
You come back to the final deadline again, but our match was a semi final and the deadline was the 11th. Add three days to the deadline of the final and we'd end up playing the final at Christmas - the worst time to arrange matches.
I also fail to see how Christmas comes in, the fixtures for the finals got posted like 5 minutes after our match was over, 22/12/13 as deadline. We played the match on the 12th of December at 11pm, and again as I said, we could have also played it tomorrow, the 15th of December, without causing trouble for the Finals which is why I complain.

crazyboy11 said:
You also make the assumption that we will be able to field a full team on any day after the deadline - it's easy to make those assumptions.
I'm quite sure you would have been able to field a team of 5 players on a weekend for a match that lasts less than an hour, otherwise you shouldn't sign up for a tournament. Even if not, and we would played the match within the deadline, I'm quite sure the RUM Team wouldn't have agreed on that date.
 
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crazyboy11 said:
Noxtravibur said:
gg, 2:2 with a 5v2 xDDD
They had 4 up until the last round where they left after being killed, the screenshot was taken at the end. Obviously.
Sarcasm. Obviously.  :lol: Well, on the other hand..
*Where da hell did I put my fukin facepalm picture...*

Seriously, I vote for replay - seeing that Scar asked me to come suddenly when I wasn't even online because it was damn late and there wasn't any match scheduled I don't think those circumstances were fair, but I might not be that well informed. As far as I understand the match happened a bit overhasty. I'm looking forward to the next decision!
 

Bauglir

Master Knight
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How about leaving the decision to Tallie and Rene? It's really hard for you to make the decision Folms, or people to not think that your decision is biased.
 

captain folms

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWVC
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Admin
The initial deadline was the 8th of December, the deadline of the extension was the 11th of December, On Thursday the 12th of December I approached Scar asking him to play the match straight away.

Team Member
Throughout the initial deadline and the extension deadline, Scar and I spoke on numerous occasion to get the match scheduled. However, due to ECS and the matches that both sets of players were heavily involved in we were unable to come to a mutual agreement. During the talks with Scar I acted not as an admin but as a team leader considering the fact that our leader was currently unavailable. I was just filling in for him. On Thursday, Scar told me he had four players online, and one being away. We also had to gather a team in exactly the same amount of time as them.
He asked me to wait for 10 minutes for them to get the fifth player. Considering the fact that The British team was on the server for a while; it was my fault, as a leader not an admin, to inform them that Scar wasn't ready. I told my team that Scar was gathering players, until it reached a point where the majority of players in the UK team didn't want to continue waiting. But their fifth player didn't show up until a second map.

Admin
Based on the fact that both deadlines were passed my duties as an admin were to ensure that this tournament runs as smoothly as possible. Regardless, of any teams, friends or motives I decided to "force" the match being played. It was a coincidence that the UK team managed to get 5 players and a German team unfortunately only managed to get 4 (even if the German team had 5 and the UK team had 4 the match would have still been played). Both teams had to deal with the same circumstances - one of them was unlucky. The rules state that the team must gather five players for the allocated time. Due to the passing of all deadlines I allocated the time, because I am an admin and I have the rights to do so. Not because I am a member of the UK team and I want us to win. The situation makes me look biased, but in all respect I wasn't. Unfortunately, I could not consult my fellow admins because through-out the tournament I have not seen a sign of them. I hosted this tournament alone. However, that is an issue to be discussed privately. I am just elaborating on this in my own defense.

Admin
The final outcome remains the same. Match will not be replayed. Main reason for this being that this way the tournament will drag itself on and on. At this rate this tournament won't be over this year. Deadlines were provided, both teams failed to agree on a date. Hence, played on a given date with a result. As a player, I would have been gutted too. Would have argued the same way, asking for fairness. But these are the decisions one has to make in order to remain as objective as possible.
 

Bauglir

Master Knight
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Why didn't you force them to play tuesday? Which was the deadline of the match. Besides playing the match sunday, or some day of next week, wouldn't affect the finals at all, since you moved (?) the deadline to next sunday.
 

captain folms

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWVC
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Bauglir said:
Why didn't you force them to play tuesday? Which was the deadline of the match.
Deadline was on Wednesday. And as I said:
Folms said:
However, due to ECS and the matches that both sets of players were heavily involved in we were unable to come to a mutual agreement.
Bauglir said:
Besides playing the match sunday, or some day of next week, wouldn't affect the finals at all, since you moved (?) the deadline to next sunday.
When did I move the deadline to Sunday? and of course it would. it would delay the tournament. Sunday would not even be possible due to ECS...
 

Bauglir

Master Knight
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Hmm my mistake about the deadline then. Don't know if you moved the deadline but I thought i read someone saying so earlier, anyway. The deadline of the finals is next sunday, which means you could play any day of the next week except sunday basicly, you could properly arrange the match so both teams would have full team and the fight would be fair.
 
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Dats the problem with Admins who are part of a participating team..
We can't say whether the circumstances were fair or not.

I'm still fan of the replay thingy seeing that both teams want real semifinals (I guess thats what meant by the very mean  :evil: comment in one of the screens).  :lol: