There's been some talk about features implemented during beta and later removed or changed. I want to gather all of these into one thread where we can test whether the really exist or not, and how do they work. If you want to contribute into these things, test it. I don't give damn about how you feel or your experience unless it's done in a controlled test where you strive to eliminate all the other variables. So if you feel there's something wrong with my concepts, test it and tell the results. That way we can have more objective view on how the mechanics really work:
Myth #1
-Turning during an attack adds to damage
Myth #2
-Tapping block instead of holding it lessens the amount of stun received
Myth #3
-Using a shield slows attacks down when using a onehanded weapon
Myth #4
-Holding a shield in hand slows you more than having the same shield on your back
Myth #5
-Only the weight of the weapon you're holding slows your movement speed
Myth #6
-Overhead attacks can be chamberblocked (riposted) with thrusts
Myth #7
-All attacks share the same reach
This is false. Here's a list of things that have effect on the speed bonus:
1.Which attack it was.
-Both side swings have the same damage, overhead does a bit more (And this is not because it hits the head, practice dummies have no head bonus).
2. How long the attack was held before it was released
-If I recall right the damage increases up to 25% (Not sure about this, just what I got in my testing) when you hold it, reaching it's maximum at 0.6 seconds and then down to 10% increase after 1.2 seconds of holding. Note that the holding time starts from the moment when the weapon is pulled back and is ready to strike. Also known as chambering. [I am not certain about these numbers but that's how the principle works.]
3. At which point of animation you hit.
-Hitting too early or late will reduce the damage you deal. With thrusts it happens to the point where you deal no damage at close range because you hit right after the hit starts.
4. Moving (Not turning, it has no effect on damage bonus).
Movement, both the yours and the opponent's speed and direction of movement has significant effect on the damage bonus. Positive bonus is got by you moving to the direction of the swing and opponent towards the attack, and negative vice versa. E.g, thrust while running forward to get positive bonus and negative while moving backwards. Note it's all about the relative movement of you and your target, so if you both move to the same direction at the same speed the bonus will be 0%. [Interesting fact #84: The slower the weapon is the greater the bonus will be. So at the same relative (You and your opponent's, that is) speed a weapon that has slower swing speeds will get higher bonus. This is why you can get so high bonuses while using the great lance]
*Note:
*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done in Warband v1.120 tutorial using the onehanded sword.
Damage with quick side swings hit at the middle of the animation did always 26 damage, overheads 28 and thrusts 24.
While holding the attacks I used only the overhead strike I got damages ranging from 26 (no holding) to 35 (Got this many times with the same amount of holding) and always 31 after holding for too long.
The 1,2 and 1,6 seconds were posted in some beta patch notes, but I'm not sure when and where nor whether I recall them correctly in the first place, but from my testing I'd say they feel about right. Note that I haven't checked it with carefully programmed macros which would provide the best results.
This is also false. There was a parrying feature at one point of the beta but it was removed at some point (I believe it was due to bugs or something). -Parrying may cause stun on the attacker. Will test later
*DISCLAIMER*
This was done in a 1.113 duel server with me using the free swadian sword and another player doing fully held overheads, and me trying to swing as soon as possible after I've blocked/parried. There was so visible difference between the two.
Using a shield only gives penalty to weapons that can be used with two hands or a shield (Bastard swords, spiked staff, lances, spears, awlpikes and thrown polearms which get 35% penalty to both speed and damage). Shortswords or whatever you're using are not faster when used without a shield. Also, the attacks are not any weaker.
*DISCLAIMER*
This was tested by timing a sequence of 25 identical strikes five times without a shield and calculating average, then same with shield in hand. Damage tested by destroying shields with identical strikes. 11 hits every single time.
If you have shields it does not matter whether you're holding one or not, the penalty you get is the standard weight slowdown (+extra if you're carrying more than one shield). So it doesn't matter whether you're carrying a 5,0 kg heavy board shield or 5,0 kg of compressed air (In case of a single shield).
*Note: Holding block, however, does slow you down as it stops the sprint from activating. This is not restricted to shields only, so same applies for weapons as well.
(Sprint activates when you haven't pressed any other movement keys other than forward, attacked, blocked, jumped or sheathed weapon for two seconds. Doing any of these or releasing forward key will reset the timer)
*DISCLAIMER*
This was tested by running the same straight line five times with each setup. With a certain setup the fastest time was 17,57 and slowest 17.67, and with another setup 19,15-19,31. The error with running direction and timing is small enough to draw conclusions as vague as mine
There is a slowdown for holding weapons, but I discovered it's not only about the weight of the weapon, it's also about itsspeed lenght.
*Notes:
-I'm talking about movement speed, not attacking speeds here.
-There doesn't seem to be penalty for speeds of 100 and above. (I haven't tested whether there's still the weight penalty for holding it. To be tested)
-Daegoth stated that the speed influence is now removed. Instead, weapon lenght should have an effect (Probably had before as well)
*DISCLAIMER*
See reply #34.
This was true until more recent patches. Overhead can be countered only with another overhead, whereas thrust can be countered with both thrust and overhead.
Now, most people know this is not true, but I decided to get some numbers to compare. Here are the results:
Standard = Onehand overhead (+0)
1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61
2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80
2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19
1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done against a dummy, with modified weapon lenghts. Margin of error is probably around +/-3. For your information, testing this with no information about the reaches took a lot of time. If you want more accurate results you'll have to do it by yourself.
Myth #1
-Turning during an attack adds to damage
Myth #2
-Tapping block instead of holding it lessens the amount of stun received
Myth #3
-Using a shield slows attacks down when using a onehanded weapon
Myth #4
-Holding a shield in hand slows you more than having the same shield on your back
Myth #5
-Only the weight of the weapon you're holding slows your movement speed
Myth #6
-Overhead attacks can be chamberblocked (riposted) with thrusts
Myth #7
-All attacks share the same reach
Myth #1
Turning an during attack adds to damage
This is false. Here's a list of things that have effect on the speed bonus:
1.Which attack it was.
-Both side swings have the same damage, overhead does a bit more (And this is not because it hits the head, practice dummies have no head bonus).
2. How long the attack was held before it was released
-If I recall right the damage increases up to 25% (Not sure about this, just what I got in my testing) when you hold it, reaching it's maximum at 0.6 seconds and then down to 10% increase after 1.2 seconds of holding. Note that the holding time starts from the moment when the weapon is pulled back and is ready to strike. Also known as chambering. [I am not certain about these numbers but that's how the principle works.]
3. At which point of animation you hit.
-Hitting too early or late will reduce the damage you deal. With thrusts it happens to the point where you deal no damage at close range because you hit right after the hit starts.
4. Moving (Not turning, it has no effect on damage bonus).
Movement, both the yours and the opponent's speed and direction of movement has significant effect on the damage bonus. Positive bonus is got by you moving to the direction of the swing and opponent towards the attack, and negative vice versa. E.g, thrust while running forward to get positive bonus and negative while moving backwards. Note it's all about the relative movement of you and your target, so if you both move to the same direction at the same speed the bonus will be 0%. [Interesting fact #84: The slower the weapon is the greater the bonus will be. So at the same relative (You and your opponent's, that is) speed a weapon that has slower swing speeds will get higher bonus. This is why you can get so high bonuses while using the great lance]
*Note:
Archonsod said:
*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done in Warband v1.120 tutorial using the onehanded sword.
Damage with quick side swings hit at the middle of the animation did always 26 damage, overheads 28 and thrusts 24.
While holding the attacks I used only the overhead strike I got damages ranging from 26 (no holding) to 35 (Got this many times with the same amount of holding) and always 31 after holding for too long.
The 1,2 and 1,6 seconds were posted in some beta patch notes, but I'm not sure when and where nor whether I recall them correctly in the first place, but from my testing I'd say they feel about right. Note that I haven't checked it with carefully programmed macros which would provide the best results.
Myth #2
Tapping block instead of holding it lessens the amount of stun received
This is also false. There was a parrying feature at one point of the beta but it was removed at some point (I believe it was due to bugs or something). -Parrying may cause stun on the attacker. Will test later
*DISCLAIMER*
This was done in a 1.113 duel server with me using the free swadian sword and another player doing fully held overheads, and me trying to swing as soon as possible after I've blocked/parried. There was so visible difference between the two.
Myth #3
Using a shield slows attacks down when using a onehanded weapon
Using a shield only gives penalty to weapons that can be used with two hands or a shield (Bastard swords, spiked staff, lances, spears, awlpikes and thrown polearms which get 35% penalty to both speed and damage). Shortswords or whatever you're using are not faster when used without a shield. Also, the attacks are not any weaker.
*DISCLAIMER*
This was tested by timing a sequence of 25 identical strikes five times without a shield and calculating average, then same with shield in hand. Damage tested by destroying shields with identical strikes. 11 hits every single time.
Myth #4
Holding a shield in hand slows you more than having the same shield on your back
If you have shields it does not matter whether you're holding one or not, the penalty you get is the standard weight slowdown (+extra if you're carrying more than one shield). So it doesn't matter whether you're carrying a 5,0 kg heavy board shield or 5,0 kg of compressed air (In case of a single shield).
*Note: Holding block, however, does slow you down as it stops the sprint from activating. This is not restricted to shields only, so same applies for weapons as well.
(Sprint activates when you haven't pressed any other movement keys other than forward, attacked, blocked, jumped or sheathed weapon for two seconds. Doing any of these or releasing forward key will reset the timer)
*DISCLAIMER*
This was tested by running the same straight line five times with each setup. With a certain setup the fastest time was 17,57 and slowest 17.67, and with another setup 19,15-19,31. The error with running direction and timing is small enough to draw conclusions as vague as mine
Myth #5
Only the weight of the weapon you're holding slows your movement speed
There is a slowdown for holding weapons, but I discovered it's not only about the weight of the weapon, it's also about its
*Notes:
-I'm talking about movement speed, not attacking speeds here.
-Daegoth stated that the speed influence is now removed. Instead, weapon lenght should have an effect (Probably had before as well)
*DISCLAIMER*
See reply #34.
Myth #6
Overhead attacks can be chamberblocked (riposted) with thrusts
This was true until more recent patches. Overhead can be countered only with another overhead, whereas thrust can be countered with both thrust and overhead.
Myth #7
All attacks share the same reach
Now, most people know this is not true, but I decided to get some numbers to compare. Here are the results:
Standard = Onehand overhead (+0)
1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61
2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80
2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19
1h Polearms
Thrust = +50
*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done against a dummy, with modified weapon lenghts. Margin of error is probably around +/-3. For your information, testing this with no information about the reaches took a lot of time. If you want more accurate results you'll have to do it by yourself.
-Shield on back: factors and effectiveness
-Stun received seems to be related on weapon speed difference
More to come, post your own hypotheses
-Stun received seems to be related on weapon speed difference
More to come, post your own hypotheses
(tested, btw)
