My thoughts on some questionable perks and how they could be changed

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flashn00b

Sergeant
I'm gonna try and do this post on a faction by unit basis and explain some issues i seem to have with the apparent rigidness of perk selections, starting with what i feel are the most useless perk selections:

Vlandia
Peasant Levy
Perk 1: Pickaxe
Apparent problem: Damage output/damage to shields does not really compensate for not having Improved Armor or one of the faster blunt weapons in the game.

Perk 2: Farmer
Apparent problem: To me, this weapon feels like it's just intended to be a meme option with no actual intent for competitive viability. Pitchfork from the random farming tool selection is worse than the pre-1.6.1 pitchfork.

Suggestion for both perks: Replace Perk 1 pickaxe with a faster version of the Farmer perk's scythe, replace farmer perk with pre-1.6.1 pitchfork.
Yeah, there's no denying that the billhook from earlier versions of the game was a bit TOO good. At the same time, I feel like the two-handed swingable farming tools were just there "4 teh meemz" rather than for anything resembling serious play. I imagine for the scythe to work as a pickaxe replacement, it would probably need a speed value in the low 80s so as to help it outswing the slower one-handed weapons, which could enable the scythe to replace the Pickaxe's role as a counter against shield users.

As for the return of the original pitchfork, I don't think I need to explain much regarding the return of a 184 reach kontos that deals a heckton of damage on horseback... if you can manage to steal a horse, of course.

Sturgia
Warrior
Perk 2: Athletics
Apparent problem: Compared to a 200HP shield and a one-handed spear, 5% extra movement speed is pretty pathetic in comparison.

Suggestion: Just get rid of it entirely for something useful.
Depending on the game mode, I imagine that the following perks would be a better alternative:
Reinforcements (Captain): +2 extra models to your unit
Sling (Other game modes): 20 rocks to throw around dealing 20 damage each. I've actually found these things to be better than the pre-1.6.1 Light Javelins used by shock troops.

Perk 2: Short Spear
Apparent problem: The having of a default shield improves their usability quite significantly, though the recent cavalry buffs may prove to be a problem with Warrior vs cav matchups

Suggestion: Increase range from 174 to 182. This should improve the Warrior's ability to defend himself against the default long spears of light cavalry.

Brigand
Perk 1: Sword
Apparent problem: Weapon feels pretty bad considering unit cost and the sacrificing of armor (Brigand only has 10 armor without Improved Armor). It also doesn't help that throwing axe melee is a better option than using the Brigand's actual melee weapons. Lackluster weapon choices for Perk 1 also makes it hard to justify picking anything other than Throwing Axes as your Perk 2 weapon.

Suggestion: Shortsword is now the default weapon, perk weapon is now the basic Raider Axe
Picking Improved Armor should now grant a (somewhat) serviceable weapon that's still worse than throwing axe melee, but players opting to pick a throwing spear or javelins can have something that might work as a self-defense option until they find a better weapon on the ground. Meanwhile, the having of a decently powerful axe should now be of some use to some players looking to do some more damage up close, at the expense of being much easier to kill.

Perk 2: Throwing Spear
Apparent problem: Main source of damage comes from either throwing axes or javelins. While the Ash Throwing Spear is a powerful polearm when not being thrown, you still lose a huge chunk of your damage potential by restricting yourself to lackluster melee weapons

Suggestion: Supplement the Throwing Spear with Vlandian Throwing Axes (non-captain modes)
I imagine that the Vlandian Throwing Axes haven't been changed at all since their removal in 1.6.1. In their 1.6.0 incarnation, I can imagine these throwable blades would allow the Brigand to deal a respectable amount of damage against peasant units or shock troopers, while still making a throwing spear perk the absolute worst option for ranged damage.

Hunter
Perk 1: Sword and Shield
Apparent problem: Although I can understand having to sacrifice a decently powerful bow in order to carry a shield, the Sturgian Sword is actually a downgrade from the default Raider Axe

Suggestion: Replace the Sturgian Sword with the light mace formerly on the Varyag
Against peastant units, this might not be much of a meaningful upgrade, though having a decent blunt weapon on a melee archer should give the Hunter a reasonable self-defense option that should set himself apart from the Battanian ranger's two-handed axe.

Aserai
Tribal Warrior
Perk 1: Axe
Apparent problem: Straight downgrade from the Mace's blunt damage and the Long Sword's faster swinging.

Suggestion: Increase speed to low 90s
I'm assuming that the Aserai Axe's stats are just an oversight from moving the Tribesman perk from Perk 2 to Perk 1. Since this weapon is now replacing the Tribal Warrior's sword instead of supplementing it, I think a slight speed boost is in order.

Guard
Perk 1: Improved Armor
Apparent problem: Tabar is just "Bardiche but worse", picking the Sturdy perk can give the same effect as Improved Armor but also frees up your perk 1 choice. With that said, I can see some value being had in using the Tabar in Captain mode, though I don't know if it will be missed

Suggestion: Replace Tabar with a Quarterstaff, move Improved Armor to Perk 2 as a replacement to Sturdy
It's no secret that heavy infantry can steamroll Aserai in most cases and with the Tabar being "bardiche but worse", it might be worth it to have a decently fast two-handed blunt weapon as a possible replacement, with the Sturdy perk now being Improved Armor. I can also see a quarterstaff being a bastard polearm too, so as to enable the stealing of a shield to gain a one-handed thrusting weapon to help teammates in melee fights without accidentally teamkilling.

Battania
Savage
Perk 1: Rhomphalia
Apparent problem: Considerably underwhelming when up against Improved Armor and Falx.

Suggestion: Promote Rhomphalia to base weapon, demote Falx to perk
Seems like the best course of action IMO, since the extra reach doesn't really make up for the loss of armor, damage output and swinging speed. Having the Falx be tied to having only two points of armor should allow for the weapon to have 102 speed again and for its status as a bastard sword to return. That way, picking Improved Armor can grant a slower but longer ranged weapon while picking a bastard sword perk on a 2 armor class could allow for a fragile, but extremely versatile unit upon the acquisition of a shield.

Empire
Recruit
Hoooboy, there's plenty wrong with this class that SHOULD be in the class balance thread, but nobody reads those these days. I'm gonna try and stay on topic with my own thread as much as possible, but forgive me if i derail my own thread.
Perk 1: Strong Arm
Apparent problem: You trade away what's probably your only source of damage for what better be a one-hit-kill on hit. Universal throwing spear nerfs means that if your pila hits something, be it a horse, player or shield, you're naked.

Suggestion: Replace Pila with 179 reach Infantry Spear/3 javelins (non-captain modes)
This will allow the recruit to have a much better horse stabbing tool than the pila's rather pathetic 154 reach polearm. Sure, you'll lose your admittedly unreliable source of one-hit-kills, though you will have a much better time trying to engage cavalry while still having a somewhat serviceable throwing weapon against most light infantry (shock troops included)

Perk 2: Strong Shield
Apparent Problem: You're definitely not gonna live long enough to see this shield take more than 80 damage.

Suggestion: Increase default shield health to 110, replace the strong shield perk with Improved Armor
Seems to me that the only perk 2 perk that's even worth using is the Long Sword, since that increases your chances of survival from "not gonna happen" to "improbable". Giving the Recruit access to an extra 9 points of armor will probably be more useful since he'll definitely need to rely on whatever weapons he can find off the ground to defend himself.

TODO: Footwork. Maybe a "reinforcements" perk for non-captain modes? (Strength in numbers, after all!)

I'll probably look at this thread again and list more headscratching perks, but if anyone else is questioning the usefulness of some perks (or if a certain perk selection on a class is actually OP), feel free to mention them.
 
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Askey

Sergeant
The perk system is making up for the lack of customization they had in Warband. Burn the system and replace it with Warbands system because its clearly not working.
 

Hax.

Recruit
M&BWBWF&S
Don’t waste anymore resources on it. Remove the class system entirely from Siege and tdm. It’s the worst conception anyone came up with. Give us full armoury access for all cultures.

If you ever decide to release custom servers, people will abandon your vanilla game modes and all your competitive efforts will remain wasted time.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
The perk system is making up for the lack of customization they had in Warband. Burn the system and replace it with Warbands system because its clearly not working.
I think the class/perk system is designed to avoid situations in Warband where people would hoard gold to get the best weapons and armor and thus becoming unstoppable killing machines. Ideally, the current system should allow low cost units to have a fighting chance against heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, though in practice, a lot more work could be done to give players a balanced game.

Aserai's probably the worst in Captain mode, Empire's probably the worst in every other game mode, and even in factions that are okay or even good, some perk selections are either too powerful or absolutely useless.
 
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