My suggestions thread no. xxxx (economy, fixed population)

My ideas are:

  • Awesome!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • You are crazy! But I still think its awesome!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No problem if your going to program it all! (armagan only)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Crap! I like killing neverending spawnings.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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    0
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Hello,

I'm new here and latest M&B fanatic so please be gentle on me and don't crucify me if some of these ideas are old. :wink:

Here are some of my crazy thoughts to give game greater depth, it shouldn't be to difficult to implement but if they are we could have them in sequel or add-on.

Filling up map with functional mines, villages, monasteries, roads, farms etc., it would give great combat grounds and lots of places to pillage for cash/defended from marauders. All these would also serve economy of local city providing ruler with money to raise troops - so that money is no longer created from air and grass around city. :lol:

Fixed population number - no more spawning! Idea is this, each city, village has certain population number (male/female), new persons are born and deaths occurs from old age or accidents (IIRC mining was very hazardous in those days) at standard medieval rate. Each city has it garrison and troops recruited lowering cities population (and work capable persons), garrisons and troops in cities would also react to nearby attacks especially on villages.

Peasants no longer wonder around map but go to the city looking for work, sell products etc. Refugees are created when raiding party attacks villages and they move to cities/villages away from border. Similarly bandits would also appear from deserters and poor villagers.

This would give war a long term effect, border cities and villages would be badly hit, economy devasted and recruiting would be very expensive since there would be few people left (partial solve to what to do with all that cash!) but some of them could be veteran soldiers. Cities away from war would have large number of refugees (maybe we could add plague epidemics to crowded cities), lots of cheap but poor recruits and lots of cheap goods that could be sold for large amount of cash in devasted or enemy regions by dirty rotten s.o.b. or given away by generous individual (which will then enslave them when they lower there weapons to eat first meal after weeks of hidding :twisted: ).

Nomads would also need there villages from which they would raid, we could make this villages truly nomadic and have them constantly on the move making really difficult to locate and eliminate.

Pirates and sea raiders would need islands for bases but then we would need galleys and naval combat engine so that is maybe little to much (although it would be cool to become a pirate and create your own island kingdom), so maybe have some fishing villages which decied to make living from piracy (by making illegal copies of M&B and we have to wipe them out :lol:).

Since none of this would require player management I believe it could at lest be partially implemented so the players could actually have some impact on the war progress instead of constantly killing spawned party no. xxxxx. :roll:

Now I'm off to get to level 20 today.

P.S.
Will there be another kingdom added preferably one in Ottoman style? :roll:
 
I agreed at least with one thing you said - what you do as a player should have impact on the game world. Now, there is none - the defeat of that large Vaegir War Party means nothing.
[Edited] Don´t take my words wrong, I love this game and I know he isnt finished :smile:
 
Welcome to the forums, Ivan.

Some interesting suggestions you have there!

Ivan Bajlo said:
Filling up map with functional mines, villages, monasteries, roads, farms etc., it would give great combat grounds and lots of places to pillage for cash/defended from marauders.

Ideas along the lines that you are going with this have been mentioned before, I'm fairly certain ... but I concur. It could add so many different mission types to have things like this.

Ivan Bajlo said:
Fixed population number - no more spawning! Idea is this, each city, village has certain population number (male/female), new persons are born and deaths occurs from old age or accidents (IIRC mining was very hazardous in those days) at standard medieval rate. Each city has it garrison and troops recruited lowering cities population (and work capable persons), garrisons and troops in cities would also react to nearby attacks especially on villages.

To me, this is a tough call: the amount of work that it would take Armagan to add this wouldn't be worth the addition, in my opinion. It would be more realistic though ... and realism is usually a good thing. :shrug:

Ivan Bajlo said:
Peasants no longer wonder around map but go to the city looking for work, sell products etc. Refugees are created when raiding party attacks villages and they move to cities/villages away from border. Similarly bandits would also appear from deserters and poor villagers.

Good ideas and as such, I like them. I have no idea if it would be hard to do this though. Anyone?

Thanks again, Ivan ... hope to see you around,
Narcissus
 
ThVaz said:
I agreed at least with one thing you said - what you do as a player should have impact on the game world. Now, there is none - the defeat of that large Vaegir War Party means nothing.
[Edited] Don´t take my words wrong, I love this game and I know he isnt finished :smile:

Yep, I got one S-something War Party of 59 on my tail of my little 37 strong with barely 10 knights. :roll:

Luckily they are slow and easily avoided. I tried test battle with them and got decimated - not worth it if they just gone spwan new one. :cry:

It would be better if this was strong cavalry force (with fewer knights and no peasants) but once defeated it would take very long time to build again since A.I. would actually need resources. :wink:
 
Narcissus said:
Ideas along the lines that you are going with this have been mentioned before, I'm fairly certain ... but I concur. It could add so many different mission types to have things like this.

That would be a welcome change - right know I got all the lords giving me capture the noble mission which was difficult enough first time, can we move noble out of combat (wagon maybe), please? :roll:

Narcissus said:
To me, this is a tough call: the amount of work that it would take Armagan to add this wouldn't be worth the addition, in my opinion. It would be more realistic though ... and realism is usually a good thing. :shrug:

There is always M&B 2. :lol:

Narcissus said:
Good ideas and as such, I like them. I have no idea if it would be hard to do this though. Anyone?

Well it all depends if code could be simply expanded or everything would need to be rewritten from start. :roll:

Narcissus said:
Thanks again, Ivan ... hope to see you around,

You bet, I spent $12 on this and it's not even done yet! :lol:
 
Gj ivan, most of the time people flame newcomers for "old" ideas.

Your ideas are awsome. Specially the one about the war partys not popping out of any corner of the map (iv killed so many swadian war partys and they keep on coming)

I think this might go well with seiges...You need to secure the area before attacking a castle/city.

cheers
 
holybandit said:
Your ideas are awsome.

I do have bright moments, just not to often. :lol:

holybandit said:
Your ideas are awsome. Specially the one about the war partys not popping out of any corner of the map (iv killed so many swadian war partys and they keep on coming)

There would be lot of troops movement for rear to front so you would hardly notice the difference but knowing that enemy has now only 14320 soldiers instead of 14360 would give you that warm fuzzy filling that your actually making a difference - never mind the fact that AI just recruited another 1000 peasants for the meat grinder. :lol:

holybandit said:
I think this might go well with seiges...You need to secure the area before attacking a castle/city.

Smaller cities with palisade and dozen defenders could be attacked by your party. But for bigger walled cities (garrison several hundred strong) we could have all friendly troops in area merge into Siege army (500-1000 strong!). :shock:

To prevent ridicules battles if player wanted to join siege or attack enemy Siege army, rest of the party would say "Nuts!", "Go right ahead we will cover your rear!" :lol: and if player persisted he would find him self alone facing bunch of knights on horse, foot, crossbowmen, archers or have to scale walls himself. :lol:

Player role could be to continue harassing surrounding enemy and most important protect supplies to Siege army (or attack enemy supply train in opposite situation), player could even run supplies himself (another mission type?). Most big sieges would be resolved by food supplies, one who lasts longer wins.

We could aslo have limit to single Siege army per side and only king can lead it, so we would have it start from capital and slowly grows as it approaches enemy city - this way if player times it right (by leaving one region to the enemy) we could have kill a king mission (before King's party turns into monster Siege army) to demoralize enemy and turn the tide of the war. :wink:

P.S.
Yes I have too much free time to play M&B and think about crazy things. :lol:
 
One point about economy. Totally reduce prices for equipment. I mean, seriously dump it by about 80% or so, cause the high-end items are just silly in their price. This would also make gold in general rarer and more valuable which is GOOD. No more carrying around 100k's of gold which is always a turnoff for me in any game.

Second - to counteract the sudden overflow of goody items - boost the troop wages by a tiny bit. Make high end troops cost way more though. Since gold will be rarer, there's no need to overdo it though. Another thing: make the PLAYER PAY for the TROOP ITEM upgrades, and also, the ITEMS that are needed needs to be AVALIABLE.

Make it so that you can "order" items made by a smith. You know, make X of this and Y of that. Of course there'll be extra charge. Price for items + work and all that.

It's kinda a bit too easy and way too cheap to maintain a top end army if you ask me. It should be harder, and leadership would become so much more valuable with it's reduced troop cost bonus (which currently is rather useless)
 
Sorry to revive a dead topic but this topic is awesome. i think Ivan Banjo has taken time to think through this very large idea so it'll be really sad if it goes unanswered. Anyway, this idea makes it a really believable world where what you do really mattered. And this would increase replayability, as it is sort of like RISK, where you can attack strategically and capture key places.

To me, this is a tough call: the amount of work that it would take Armagan to add this wouldn't be worth the addition, in my opinion.

I think although it will initially take up effort, but it'll pay off later on. Many people are asking for more changes like conquering land and castle or destroy a swadian invasion plan, or maybe wiping out vaegirs and start a new nation. Then the natural outgrowth will be that what you do will affect the world, so we'll need Ivan Banjo's idea to do that. Like to stop the swadian troops, we can destroy mines or raid towns that provide tithes, so that guerrilla tactics can work too.

Filling up map with functional mines, villages, monasteries, roads, farms etc., it would give great combat grounds and lots of places to pillage for cash/defended from marauders. All these would also serve economy of local city providing ruler with money to raise troops - so that money is no longer created from air and grass around city

I think it'll great. It will be like Sim City, except you can kill the sims and evict them of their towns. :cool:

Fixed population number - no more spawning! Idea is this, each city, village has certain population number (male/female), new persons are born and deaths occurs from old age or accidents (IIRC mining was very hazardous in those days) at standard medieval rate. Each city has it garrison and troops recruited lowering cities population (and work capable persons), garrisons and troops in cities would also react to nearby attacks especially on villages.

I think the easiest way is use calculations. Like every fortnight, population increases by 5% of total population. It'll be too hard to calculate individual deaths, and since we're talking about at least 10-100k people in the town, the average birth and death will follow a normal distribution curve, so we can take it in percentage. For drafting the same, except some towns are more militarilistic, hence higher draft rate. Of course, we need a minimum cap so that the town doesnt kill itself through drafting.

For reacting to attack, give the town a 'sphere of influence' or something that determines when the unit will be considered hostile, and react accordingly. Also, make the garrison troops patrol around occationally.

Oh, you also forget that the city has to occasionally give the capitol tribute in the form of tithes and soldiers, so they will form a unit like a caravan, except with alot of soldiers and gold. Maybe a 'blacksmith town' will send weapons and silk town sends silk and so on to eliminate the 'bring me 7 padded cloth' quests.

All these would also serve economy of local city providing ruler with money to raise troops.

This would give war a long term effect, border cities and villages would be badly hit, economy devasted

M&B: an action, strategic, economical and political mediveal role playing game. :shock:
 
No name said:
Sorry to revive a dead topic but this topic is awesome.

Dead? It's been only day or two. :lol:

No name said:
i think Ivan Banjo has taken time to think through this very large idea so it'll be really sad if it goes unanswered.

And for next idea I need to come up with more simple surename. :lol:

No name said:
I think the easiest way is use calculations. Like every fortnight, population increases by 5% of total population. It'll be too hard to calculate individual deaths,

Individual deaths are primarily for mining and other hazardous jobs (lodging and saw mills?, galley slaves if games develops that far), since mines are primary sources of iron, copper, silver, gold etc. they are vital to war economy. Since there is probably zero population growth in mines :lol:, we would have drop each day for people killed or wounded in accidents and catastrophic cave in could kill dozens. This creates constant needs for new workers - mostly prisoners, but also job opportunity for poor peasants, refuges so they don't just patrol country like crazy but actually move with purpose.

We could also add plague and other disease which was common in those days since disease often took more lives then combat.
http://www.historyguide.org/ancient/lecture29b.html

We could also add children but I think ability to slaughter bunch of brats in game would cause lot of bad publicity but then again this game could use every bit of publicity it could get and it can always defended it is only being historical and genocide was standard tactics used by "noble" knights against pagans. :twisted:

No name said:
and since we're talking about at least 10-100k people in the town, the average birth and death will follow a normal distribution curve, so we can take it in percentage.

I doubt there should be a city over 10000 unless current kingdoms are significantly enlarged.
http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm
"London (25,000-40,000), Paris (50,000-80,000), Genoa (75,000-100,000), and Venice (100,000+). Moscow in the 15th century had a population in excess of 200,000!"

No name said:
For drafting the same, except some towns are more militarilistic, hence higher draft rate. Of course, we need a minimum cap so that the town doesnt kill itself through drafting.

Usually during siege evey able body citizen would be drafted, there is no need for cap but economy should suffer since there is nobody left to work. :wink:

No name said:
For reacting to attack, give the town a 'sphere of influence' or something that determines when the unit will be considered hostile, and react accordingly. Also, make the garrison troops patrol around occationally.

Regular patrols that return to city to replenish themselves after each battle (if they survive that is) and prisoners being sent to mines instead of walked around for public display. :lol:

No name said:
Oh, you also forget that the city has to occasionally give the capitol tribute in the form of tithes and soldiers, so they will form a unit like a caravan, except with alot of soldiers and gold. Maybe a 'blacksmith town' will send weapons and silk town sends silk and so on to eliminate the 'bring me 7 padded cloth' quests.

As mentioned in a post up cities away form border would raise troops and send them to the front to boost defenses, as devastation of frontier region increases supplies would be need to so we would have constant source of targets for pillaging. :lol:

No name said:
M&B: an action, strategic, economical and political mediveal role playing game. :shock:

Then we could transfer everything to map of Europe (with northern Africa, Asia minor and Middle east), add hundreds of cities and dozens of kingdoms plus multiplayer and create more addictive game then WOW. :roll:

Another thought we could have peasants (serfs) revolts! Several large peasants parties would start roaming countryside and attacking troops and sometimes lower ranking troops (militia, footmen) would join them and turn there weapons on knights and nobles in middle of battle! :grin:

P.S.
This is also interesting but probably little to much for game :roll: :
http://www.geology.ucdavis.edu/~cowen/~GEL115/115CH7.html
 
This topic may answer a problem I've been thinking about as well, (I'm also a newcomer so apologies for me too if I go over something thats been said.)

I've found the river pirate quest a bit strange in the random spawns as I've quite literally wandered around for 2-3 days without seeing a single pirate. I would have much rather been given the job of destroying their base and have the spawns start there and you could work out where the base is by tracking back where the parties seem to be coming from. Have the parties gain in size and strength as you get closer. The base could then have a sort of boss you could kill or capture aka "capture the noble" style. Destroying the actual base would give me a feeling of accomplishment, like, yeah the world is a safer place thanks to me! lol, conceited I know, but, hey my ego is hungry monster that has to fed! :twisted:
 
ye. sounds good. what i said this game woulda be needing. oh, and that river pirate quest change got my full support, makes much more flavah :wink:
 
I love the idea of actual living towns. And of course giving purpose to slaughtering those war parties. I don't think we really need to go as far as having the engine calculate deaths and bring in new workers and such. It would be cool...but that's alot of work. And what happens if you whipe out a town?... Is the AI/engine capable of building new towns? I doubt it...but it would be cool to combine elements of civilization with M&B. Also, i don't think we need to go as far as to have cities with thousands of people in them. M&B operates on a much smaller scale.
I doubt there should be a city over 10000 unless current kingdoms are significantly enlarged.
http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm
"London (25,000-40,000), Paris (50,000-80,000), Genoa (75,000-100,000), and Venice (100,000+). Moscow in the 15th century had a population in excess of 200,000!"
Rome had a population of 1 million by 250 AD :lol:
 
"M&B: an action, strategic, economical and political mediveal role playing game."

Would'nt that be amazing? Wait, that WILL be amazing! (please, please, please! :lol:)

If not, then like other(s) have typed, M&B 2 :grin: .
 
DaLagga said:
I don't think we really need to go as far as having the engine calculate deaths and bring in new workers and such. It would be cool...but that's alot of work.

How? Day 1, Random deaths 1-5, mine capacity 100, miners < 80, bring new workers, chance of cave in each week 5%, cave in kills 10-30, end.
:wink:

DaLagga said:
And what happens if you whipe out a town?...

Well that did happen in history many times or we wouldn't have all those ruins lying around. :lol: We could have cool ghost town as battle ground or we could have AI simply move settlers from existing towns to empty one.

Beside I believe it was standard tactics to wipe out towns population if it was of wrong nation or more importantly wrong religion. :roll:

DaLagga said:
Is the AI/engine capable of building new towns? I doubt it...but it would be cool to combine elements of civilization with M&B. Also, i don't think we need to go as far as to have cities with thousands of people in them. M&B operates on a much smaller scale.

Villages would have 100-500 so cities would go from 500 up but only capital should have 2-5000.

DaLagga said:
Rome had a population of 1 million by 250 AD :lol:

It would take way too long to pillage and who would carry all that lot!? :lol:
 
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