SP - World Map My suggestion to make hideouts more fun.

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One problem i just noticed, if I just want my siege attack the bandits might just run away instead of defending. I can leave some of my men behind so the bandits might not run away, but right now its quite complicated to get them back into your army.
 
One problem i just noticed, if I just want my siege attack the bandits might just run away instead of defending. I can leave some of my men behind so the bandits might not run away, but right now its quite complicated to get them back into your army.
1. Keep in mind usually when the players army grows you will also see bigger bandit groups. So hideouts would have more defenders too.

2. The bandits have a fortified position. They might try to defend even if they are quite a bit outnumbered.
If you look at it from a realistic point of view, they might think: "We don't have to beat them, they know if they want to get us they will lose a lot of men".

3. Like you said you can leave some men with a companion behind if you think you have to many. I haven't done this so far so i don't know how complicated it is to get you men back. I thought you just move up to them and tell them to join you again. If it is more complicated than that i hope this gets improved anyway.
 
1. Keep in mind usually when the players army grows you will also see bigger bandit groups. So hideouts would have more defenders too.

2. The bandits have a fortified position. They might try to defend even if they are quite a bit outnumbered.
If you look at it from a realistic point of view, they might think: "We don't have to beat them, they know if they want to get us they will lose a lot of men".

3. Like you said you can leave some men with a companion behind if you think you have to many. I haven't done this so far so i don't know how complicated it is to get you men back. I thought you just move up to them and tell them to join you again. If it is more complicated than that i hope this gets improved anyway.
Did medieval generals care for their soldiers? As a bandit i wouldn't count on that.:grin:
 
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Text for more in depth explanation:

1. Finding the hideout.

Right now its exltremly easy to find hideouts. You just want to visit a village and suddenly you spot a hideout at the other end of the forrest. I haven't even skilled scouting and i still randomly spot them everywhere. How does it come that nobody already destroyed them if they are that easy to find.

Finding them should already be the first part of the challenge and could offer some change from the constant hunting and killing bandits.
High bandit activity in a region would be a clue that a hideout is somewhere in that area. You can then find it by following tracks or a bandit party which is on its way to the hideout. Most bandit groups should visit the hideout from time to time to store their loot and to get new men.

2. Actions once you found the hideout.
Once you found the Hideout you now get two choices.

Option A: Try to sneak up
First you get to select units you want to come with you. It is totally up to you how many and which units you want to accompany you.
After you have done that you get placed on the first of two battle maps.
On the first Battle map are one to three scattered outposts each one having a big signal fire. 25% of the hideouts men power are at these outposts. Your job is to elimiate them without the bandits being able to light any signal fire.

If you get detected by bandits two different things can happen.
They realize they are not strong enough to take on your sneaky force so they try to light the signal fire and alarm the hideout that way.
or
They think they are strong enough to defeat your sneaky forces. In that case they attack you without trying to raise alarm. Of course if they realize they are losing the fight they will retreat and try to alarm the hideout.

By sneaking up the player needs to be able to position himself close enough to the signal fires to avoid it getting kindled by bandits. Even if you get spooted a bit earlier you should at least have a chance to kill bandits who run up to the signal fire with missile weapons.

Taking a lot of soldiers with you makes it more likely that bandits spott you early. Also they will always try to alarm the hideout instead of trying to fight you.
On the other hand taking to few men will make it difficult to actually defeat the outposts. So the player needs to carefully choose his companions.

If you fail:
The hideout gets alarmed. Read option B to find out the consequenzes.

If you are successfull you and your entire army will be placed on the second battle map. This time its the hideout. because no alarm was raised, the bandits are scattered. Their numbers are lower because you already killed some of them at the outposts. Your goal is of course to defeat the remaining bandits.

Option B: Attack without trying to sneak up
In that case your army gets spotted of course and the hideout gets alarmed.
Now two things can happen:

1. The hideout thinks it can defend your attack.
In that case all remaining troops from the ourposts retreat to the hideout. The bandits fortify it and the player has to fight some kind of siege battle against a fortified position.

2.The hideout thinks it can't defend itself.
In this case the bandits take their loot, scatter and flee in all directions. The player can now try to hunt down the biggest fleeing party and get at least some value that way. Of course the hideout being abandoned now, still has a small negativ impact on the bandit population in that area.

+1

As for finding the hideout. I think it would be good for the quest giver to give you a the general area ("the last banding raid came from the south!"), so you go look south of the village.
Then again, if the bandits are smart, they might go around deliberately, so you look in the wrong direction?

Also, the way bandits in general should work is that bandit camps are spawned with a few parties, and those parties periodically leave and return after some time (successful raid or if they were defeated but escaped, or just after a set amount of time). With more successful raids and prisoners, the camp would grow, which means more bandits, but also more and better loot. And prisoners.
Once a camp is destroyed, the area should be safe for a while. Bandits should prefer areas of lower stability and bigger turmoil, with more camps tending to spawn there.
HOWEVER, where there are a lot of bandits, mercenaries, slavers and bandit hunters are also bound to follow. So you would have those groups roaming on the map, preying on each other.

NPC could also detect and attack camps?
 
+1

As for finding the hideout. I think it would be good for the quest giver to give you a the general area ("the last banding raid came from the south!"), so you go look south of the village.
Then again, if the bandits are smart, they might go around deliberately, so you look in the wrong direction?

Also, the way bandits in general should work is that bandit camps are spawned with a few parties, and those parties periodically leave and return after some time (successful raid or if they were defeated but escaped, or just after a set amount of time). With more successful raids and prisoners, the camp would grow, which means more bandits, but also more and better loot. And prisoners.
Once a camp is destroyed, the area should be safe for a while. Bandits should prefer areas of lower stability and bigger turmoil, with more camps tending to spawn there.
HOWEVER, where there are a lot of bandits, mercenaries, slavers and bandit hunters are also bound to follow. So you would have those groups roaming on the map, preying on each other.

NPC could also detect and attack camps?
Agree with everything. Of course there need to be enough hideouts left for the player.
 
Looks like a fun idea, I'm wondering which direction Taleworlds will go with the bandits.
By looking at the forum i get the feeling most players would just be happy if they could select the units for the hideout attack. That are all changes i expect taleworlds to make.
Its relatively easy to implement. I hope some modder will pick up my idear.

ps, your girlfriend is right.
She always is XD
 
It is true that these missions are difficult, but not impossible.
I failed several times, before I started to understand better how to attack the thieves' hideout.

1) Use the environment to hide and protect your soldiers. (Hidden behind a hill, behind a thief's hut)
2) Approach (without your men) a spot with the fewest bandits (alone or on patrol at the start of the mission)
3) Shoot a single arrow at a bandit. Wear your shield and walk and come back towards your men, but the shield facing the bandit.
4) You are going to have the advantage. Your men are safe from arrows. Once you have sufficiently attracted the bandit(s) to your men. Launch the charge (F3) on the bandits.
5) Important, once the batch of bandits is dead call your men back to you. And repeat the procedure for each enemy spot.

You will suffer a lot of arrows. If your shield is badly damaged, take a new one from a dead soldier or bandit.
 
Weirdly, my units seem to work fine by placing them at the top but it seems my companions take priority no matter what position they're in. Gonna have to leave my one companion that has no skills in weapons whatsoever behind before I raid another hideout I think, she just gets one shotted by an arrow anyways >.<

I don't mind the limits when attacking a hideout but ya it would be real nice if we could pick who we want to take with us on the raid rather than leave it in the hands of the gods..
 
Actually, after some experience it’s not hard to beat it only with a few casualties. Still, it sucks that you aren’t able to choose the troops. :grin:

P.S. Remember that the “Hold your fire” order (F4) is set by default in hideout raids.
 
I think the hideout encounter needs an overhaul, yes you should absolutely be allowed to pick your units. There is a mod that lets you bring 50 men of your party which I am using, but its only a short term fix. Someone did leave a great suggestion of how to change hideout battles into either a mini siege, or a sneaky mission where you get to pick your men, and there is a dice roll chance involved, I would look it up and post on that thread if you support, or make a suggestion yourself in the hopes that they take it in to account, which I am sure they will.
 
Glad to see people are sharing ideas to improve hideouts experiences, to make them more fun, more balanced while still offering a challenge.
Here are mine from another thread:

1. If you wish to keep the player troop at 8, put a max number of men in hideouts (ex : 25).
2. Give the player the option to chose his men.
3. Give the player's troops a chance; if the Player falls in battle, and his troops wins the battle, then the battle is won like any other one.
4. Give the player a different option than sneaking up at night, like... attacking, like a normal battlefield, swarming the camp.
5. The Sneaking option, if successful, could bring you directly to the Hideout Chief. If you manage to kill him first, the bandits scatter and you win. Like an assassination.
6. Just increase the max number of player troops according to the number of hideouts bandits. E.g: for 20 and less, 8 soldiers, for 20-35 bandits, player can have 12, etc.

The current state of Hideouts does not make any sense, and gets quite boring and annoying quickly.
 
Just adding in my 2 denar, please Taleworlds ... you ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO allow for us to be able to PICK the soldiers we want to take with us on this night raid.

I get that it's supposed to be a sneak attack with an elite force and I get that the bandits would run away if the whole army came in and tried to clear house with them. But as it stands I really have no choice but to just use the mod that makes it so I can attack with my whole army because your current game design that makes sure I include every single one of my companions (some of whom are healers and engineers and scouts and not made for front line combat) and then a random selection of soldiers after that with no regard for their combat effectiveness just makes this aspect of the game frustrating and it honestly ruins the sense of realism.

There is simply no in game justification for why you can't just pick the units you want to go with you on a night raid, or pick the units you want to go with you for any task for that matter. I mean I can pick which units I send with my companion when they are completing tasks without me so I know the foundations for the code are already there, it makes no sense why bandit hideout raids are a lucky draw of straws.

I hope to see this change preferably in an upcoming patch or failing that a mod because this severely kills the fun of the game.
 
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