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My Gut Reaction to 1.6.0

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Koshkasa

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I killed probably 50 archers in siege once with a sword. Not because I am some master, but because the AI is so bad, they must get to point A and anything in their way will be ignored. It's really really bad. A year and some out and the siege AI is worse than WB's is not what I call great progress.
The AI in general is rigid and defiant to the extreme, sieges are just the place where it's the most obvious. But yeah, camping ballistae with a menavlion or standing in the middle of archer routes are the most efficient way to farm dozens and hundreds of kills in sieges with next to no risk. Their inner desire to touch that ballista is so pronounced that an enemy knight standing next to it is deemed inconsequential.

blah blah poetry aside there's something wrong with AI priorities, the fact that they don't care about surviving and only want to attack one specific enemy soldier or reach one specific nav objective is obvious and needs attention if the game is to be presented as a combat sim
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
My reaction is basically "Ah, another patch that failed to make me boot up the game again". Maybe the next one will succeed...
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Some moderators here love to abuse their power. It's sad that the community allows them to do so.
Let's hear from the moderators first and then we can decide if they are Gestapo incarnate or what.
The ban does seem excessive and it's quite possible it was unjust according to forum moderation practices. Once we establish that, we can post protest threads and create drama and they will reverse it or someone will step down. It will be fun for everyone, even Steve.
 

Maelstrom8

Sergeant
WBWF&SNW
Apologies in advance if my following input is off-topic, not needed or unnecessary. This topic is somewhat interesting so I can't help but comment on it. I'll keep it as brief as possible and won't reply further after this.

I've seen Steve's recent history, the first three pages. Most of it just is negative rambling. To make matters worse, this thread happened. So people naturally say "none of this is ban worthy". He's been here for a very, very long time. Who is to say he hasn't gotten plenty of chances prior in all his years of activity?

I get that people are disappointed with the company, and everything in between. You can call me inexperienced or new, I admit it, I'm a lurker. My activity skips from early 2009 to early 2017 to early 2020 (A day after Bannerlord came out) to now. I actually don't remember when they re-did the forums but I preferred the poop brown style. Either way, I am on the people's side. All the criticisms - that are constructive anyway are spot on, but the overall behavior of some of the community is just disgusting, like none of this behavior is going to help. It is disrespectful to assume the moderators here love to abuse, and to say the community allows them to. If anything, the community shouldn't be allowed to constantly make pot shots against either the mods or TW. There's banter, and then there's being on the constant receiving end of immature people. None of them deserve that.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
don't see anything excessive in his recent posts either. I just hope for his sake that he doesn't pull a mostblunted and use an alt 5 mins after being temp banned
He said some pretty spicy stuff in two threads over on the MP forums. You can't see the worst of it because the posts were edited and deleted but it was clearly having a moment in regards to some really mild (and obvious) bantering.
 

Oakenlix

Sergeant
It's amazing to me that people aren't getting tired of posting the same whining threads over and over again.
 

Roy1012

Duke
My reaction is basically "Ah, another patch that failed to make me boot up the game again". Maybe the next one will succeed...
My husband will eventually stop beating me. Maybe if I do better as a wife he will see why we married in the first place.... Maybe the next one will succeed....
 

stevepine

Knight
It's amazing to me that people aren't getting tired of posting the same whining threads over and over again.
People whine usually because they care or they feel the need to vent.

Plus any thread where Mexxico replies and contributes is interesting , to me at least.
 

Seminandis

Recruit
I, for one, think Tale Worlds is doing a pretty bang up job. I've always been of the opinion that bugs and crashes should be worked on first, before new content is added. Based on my experience and the patch notes, that seems to be their focus.

They also really freed up modders with this patch in some not so insignificant ways, because ultimately modding is what made Warband so replayable for so many people. We could all customize the game to be exactly what we wanted it to be. It's the same thing we're able to do with Bannerlord.

The biggest disconnect I see, is so many of us have completely different ideas of what we think the official version should play like. Some of you describe what you want, and it reminds me of Total War. Some of you are describing Crusader Kings. Then others are describing games like Endless Legend. Warband and Bannerlord are unique games, and they should stay the way they are, imho. I don't think Tale World is neglecting their duties, and I've gotten over 600 hours of enjoyable gameplay out of the game at this point, both modded and unmodded. I'm sure many of you have that many or more.

Just try to take a step back, and appreciate the game for what it is, and not what you think it should be. How would you feel if you opened up a bakery, and you were really proud of your... cheesecake. Then a customer comes in, and berates you for not knowing that their favorite kind of cheesecake is the one their Aunt Beatrice makes every year for Christmas? Are you supposed to change your entire store to accommodate the few unreasonable people? Or should you be able to offer your uniquely satisfying products?

Just a thought.
 

stevepine

Knight
I, for one, think Tale Worlds is doing a pretty bang up job. I've always been of the opinion that bugs and crashes should be worked on first, before new content is added. Based on my experience and the patch notes, that seems to be their focus.

They also really freed up modders with this patch in some not so insignificant ways, because ultimately modding is what made Warband so replayable for so many people. We could all customize the game to be exactly what we wanted it to be. It's the same thing we're able to do with Bannerlord.

The biggest disconnect I see, is so many of us have completely different ideas of what we think the official version should play like. Some of you describe what you want, and it reminds me of Total War. Some of you are describing Crusader Kings. Then others are describing games like Endless Legend. Warband and Bannerlord are unique games, and they should stay the way they are, imho. I don't think Tale World is neglecting their duties, and I've gotten over 600 hours of enjoyable gameplay out of the game at this point, both modded and unmodded. I'm sure many of you have that many or more.

Just try to take a step back, and appreciate the game for what it is, and not what you think it should be. How would you feel if you opened up a bakery, and you were really proud of your... cheesecake. Then a customer comes in, and berates you for not knowing that their favorite kind of cheesecake is the one their Aunt Beatrice makes every year for Christmas? Are you supposed to change your entire store to accommodate the few unreasonable people? Or should you be able to offer your uniquely satisfying products?

Just a thought.

Honestly, I think TaleWorlds have made more of an effort to communicate with the Bannerlord community lately and that is good. Long overdue and much needed... but still good.

However, I think that lots of people here are not being unreasonable with their expectations for the game - and I think this is where we may disagree - but let me tell you why....

I think the vast majority of the community here would be super happy if TW could just add into Bannerlord, the features of good old Warband (or at least Warband with some of the most famous mods).

Honestly, if they would commit to doing something like that - then 90 percent of the negativity here would disappear overnight. And, for the most part, adding those features would be relatively simple. And yeah sure, this would need more time... but I think after waiting this long, most people in the community would happily wait.

Will this happen? No. Sadly not. I think a lot of Warband features will have to be modded into Bannerlord to give it some soul and depth.
 
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Aurex

Veteran
WB
It's actually not what is in the patch.... it's what is not there.... still .......


There are so many of the community who, like me, aren't even going to play another damn minute of Bannerlord until:


1) Sieges are working

2) There is some sort of functioning diplomacy with a tiny bit of depth

3) There's a far wider variety of scenes (with functionality)



As a role-player, I find it utterly astounding and staggering that we still only have one single tavern scene per culture!
I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment.
I also refuse to play at all until sieges are working properly, battle AI is fixed... and, of course, until the UI doesn't make me wait 15 minutes to see my inventory.
Oh, and as for the roleplay? My most important feature there would be a lot of conversation with small secrets to discover, favor to ask and offer... and a huge overhaul to the tavern wenches. Right now, they're just terrifying.
 
Honestly, I think TaleWorlds have made more of an effort to communicate with the Bannerlord community lately and that is good. Long overdue and much needed... but still good.

However, I think that lots of people here are not being unreasonable with their expectations for the game - and I think this is where we may disagree - but let me tell you why....

Has also been on my mind - there seems to have been a turning point after MostBlunted's final verdict (his ban). Things turned sour and nearly turned into a revolution.
Dev involvement has increased since then - and the General Discussion threads are seemingly calmer now then they were right after.

I think the vast majority of the community here would be super happy if TW could just add into Bannerlord, the features of good old Warband (or at least Warband with some of the most famous mods).

Yes! But, and I'm speculating here, I think they want to keep the game, not stale but, easy to transform. Once they have a good working platform they could turn it into a multitude of games. As a dev company they are now incredible vulnerable, they only have 1 product. If a direct competitor hit the market, they would be in danger. They need to churn out more games, preferable different branches.
And they could always develop DLC's or let modders get at it for additional content. Perhaps sell "creator content packs" for consoles like Paradox does so well (no mod-workshops on consoles).

Honestly, if they would commit to doing something like that - then 90 percent of the negativity here would disappear overnight. And, for the most part, adding those features would be relatively simple. And yeah sure, this would need more time... but I think after waiting this long, most people in the community would happily wait.

Will this happen? No. Sadly not. I think a lot of Warband features will have to be modded into Bannerlord to give it some soul and depth.

Commitment is scary. Especially for a company with "growing pains". Startups who made it occasionally still have a c'est la vie attitude. Plans dont get thought out - they've worked from experience and in a ''practical'' way without the theoretical base that should validate that practicality.
So features that used to be brainstormed over a beer in the pub on a tuesday night still get done in that way (sort of speak) and while one plan might collide with another - they still do it, because "it was a good idea, so why not."

There is a lack of focus (especially with "specialists"), the director who was once in the mud at the frontline with the troops occasionally returns to it because thats where he's most comfortable. He, in heart, is still a specialist, while he needs to be a generalist, someone overseeing processes, plans and has to steer the ship and keep focus on its end-goal.

You can tell that TW does not have that captain. The captain is not at his desk, navigating, looking at provisions, managing profits. Hes on deck, not navigating, not steering, not maintaining focus and managing goals and targets. Because thats where he's most comfortable. Thats what he knows.

Companys like TW cross my desk a lot of times. We help them, they grow. But if the captain does not want to be helped (im not the problem, management is lazy!), then the company's in trouble and the ship will go down in red numbers.

EDIT; Got carried away, lost sight of your post.
Commitment is scary, because they have no focus. Specialists never do - they need to be steered or endless side-tracking happens. But by who? Who can be the captain?
 
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