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My final verdict

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julijs

Sergeant
WBNWVC
same with these statements of "if you played hundreds and hundreds of hour's why're you complaining about the game? you enjoyed it!" excuse me, but who? WHO? who in the hell is still playing hundred's of hundred's of hour's of bannerlord while still complaining about its development and "terrible this game is, I'm so entitled to so much more blahblah" who? because i have no idea.

let's make it clear, whatever imaginary person you're talking about spending their lifetime on bannerlord and then harassing the living hell out of these forums doesn't exist.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
$20 for hundreds of hours of gametime? Yeah nah
Let me guess - you also want free content updates for years on top of that.
The game has many problems but when you play it a lot, you clearly enjoyed it enough to have fun. Otherwise you would stop playing.
$50 for hundreds of hours of gameplay is a good deal, no matter how you look at it. Even if patches are coming in at a snails pace.

I've bought a game for $2 and $5 and they have entertained me far more than Bannerlord has. In fact, my second highest played game in any my game libraries is a game under $10 and I have nearly 900 hours in it. Tale Worlds is even being funded by their country and their updates have been non-existent. Mean while, Hello Games is pushing out massive content updates for free multiple times a year and continues to patch and upgrade their game. There is simply no excuse...well, at least not to most people, apparently.

And I play it because I spent my hard earned money on it (so thus I would like it to matter somehow), I really liked Warband (which I bought 3 times) and I'm waiting for it to get to a good stage. That doesn't indicate whatsoever it was worth every penny at initial release price. You are being dishonest and you know it.

Bro pls

How many hours of gameplay do you want from a $50 game before you are satisfied and happy with your purchase? Honest question.

The point is that how many hours you throw into a product doesn't indicate whether or not it is a satisfying product, especially so with an early access game you play even through its pure garbage moments to offer feed back. This argument is asinine.
 
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kreamy

Sergeant
I've bought a game for $2 and $5 and they have entertained me far more than Bannerlord has. In fact, my second highest played game in any my game libraries is a game under $10 and I have nearly 900 hours in it. Tale Worlds is even being funded by their country and their updates have been non-existent. Mean while, Hello Games is pushing out massive content updates for free multiple times a year and continues to patch and upgrade their game. There is simply no excuse...well, at least not to most people, apparently.

And I play it because I spent my hard earned money on it (so thus I would like it to matter somehow), I really liked Warband (which I bought 3 times) and I'm waiting for it to get to a good stage. That doesn't indicate whatsoever it was worth every penny at initial release price. You are being dishonest and you know it.



The point is that how many hours you throw into a product doesn't indicate whether or not it is a satisfying product, especially so with an early access game you play even through its pure garbage moments to offer feed back. This argument is asinine.
but, is that really the issue? The value of entertainment and time?

I think the big issue is what they promised, how they underdelivered, and how they consistently underdeliver and generally do not engage the community (us, the payers.)

For the money, i had some entertainment with bannerlord. but overall, i had MUCH more disappointment and frustration - by a factor of 10. I had more fun playing the original M&B demo.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
but, is that really the issue? The value of entertainment and time?

I think the big issue is what they promised, how they underdelivered, and how they consistently underdeliver and generally do not engage the community (us, the payers.)

For the money, i had some entertainment with bannerlord. but overall, i had MUCH more disappointment and frustration - by a factor of 10. I had more fun playing the original M&B demo.

The value doesn't match what was promised, so yes, it is part of the issue. Time is especially unimportant when discussing an early access game, because the point is to play it and try to provide feedback to make it better. I could have 1000 hours in Bannerlord and still think the value just isn't there for what they ask.
 

julijs

Sergeant
WBNWVC
URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH... the game was one big developer blog lip-service to fan's, i guarantee if they spent half a much as they did on those blog's we'd have a complete game by now.
 
It's not uncommon for games to be in early access for years on Steam. Look Stranded Deep or Project Zomboid.
Things are improving, it will just take TW a few years :p
Be prepared for another 2 years imo
Stranded Deep? “We don't want to work on Stranded Deep forever. If all goes well, we're hoping to have it completed by the end of 2015" is what the Stranded Deep devs stated. That game is still in EA six years later. Yeah, no, these are not model games. Just because it's not uncommon for games to be in EA for years, doesn't make it good. Lootboxes and microtransactions are not uncommon either, yet would you argue that therefore, those things aren't bad? There are sooo many EA games on Steam that completely flopped and never got anywhere, with the devs stealing everyone's money and then sailing ship.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH... the game was one big developer blog lip-service to fan's, i guarantee if they spent half a much as they did on those blog's we'd have a complete game by now.
Ironically, I can remember the time when fans were clamoring for more devblogs. They really didn't kick off until... 2017 or so? Something like that.
 

danEN

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH... the game was one big developer blog lip-service to fan's, i guarantee if they spent half a much as they did on those blog's we'd have a complete game by now.
URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH URH just wait until it's ready to be shipped to the console andy's, we'll see the biggest advertisement scam taleworlds have ever done
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Taleworlds is Harvey Dent "Either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain", while Blunted is Batman "Not the hero we wanted, but the one we deserved"
 
lol, that's a good reason for removing the ban
he's some kind of karmic punishment :smile:
He died for our sins, rip in piece.
As soon as the ban button was clicked the mods got an achievement update.
Congratulations, you have unlocked “Streisand Effect” and “Making a Martyr”.
 

MavDrac

Recruit
I uninstalled BN at version 1.2.1 or so because it was full of bugs, very undeveloped and mods were updating daily because they were constantly changing their engine, I thought about giving this game time to evolve and come 1 year later and play it like a butterlord. I did not read the updates never, because I really wanted to be surprised when I come back to it, let it blow me away as one would say.

I came back yesterday, installed 1.5.9, played a fully 60 minutes (Only had Better Time Installed, because I feel like this should also be in the game, they are just stubborn to implement it, also the most downloaded mods that make quality of like improvements should all be implemented, but who cares)
.
This is what I found different:

Nothing changed when starting the game, not even the useless bonuses when choosing your culture.

Battles :
I feel like ranged weapons shoot different than they used to, armor is still a joke, cavalry still very odd (just tell me, where are they headed after charging, what are they searching for ? Courage ? Strength ? Forgiveness? I though this was a bug, but it's still here), sieges felt exactly the same (AI trying to climb their ladders but failing eventually and forming a blub). (Still need a mod to make battles enjoyable and playable, also need a mod for units to get them to be valuable)

Map:
Nothing changed, or maybe I missed something. (Found a mod that expands the map and makes use of different aspects from it)

Characters:
Skills are changed, improved. Almost complete as it would seem. Some IMG are missing from some skills, but it's been a year, and TW did not fully finish the character's development system. (Still, this is the single part I don't feel like changing with mods)

UI ? Same
A fast talking option was implemented as far as I can tell, lowering loading times.

Oh, the tutorial is almost complete, but still lacking a full campaign.
We do have a brother now.

After acquiring a castle, hunger did not come the second day like it used to.
Still no control over your lords.
No way to recruit units to the garrison without the king going on daily recruitment trips.
No Patrols to protect your villagers.
Governor still only helps with different passives based on his skills (whom you can't develop) so speaking with him does not give you any kingdom options.

IDK what happened, but I had a kid, and it made me choose what he learns or learned (This is a nice option don't get me wrong, but if I choose that he was a hunter give him +50 or so for hunter related skills, not 10 or 20, that's completely useless)

So I played for some time, did not encounter any bugs or so, the game was stable and smoothly running, even 1k battles felt better, not smooth but better, and after 60 minutes or so of gameplay, I ended up in a crash in a battanian castle siege.

I am so disappointed, truly, I had such big dreams with Bannerlord and such high hopes. They were talking about their community and how they would work with everybody last time I checked.
And I've come here today and see the community waging war against itself, no TW representative to take responsibility or to promise to deliver anything anymore.
Modders moving away to other games because they are done with updating their mods every week cause of system changes.
Oh wait, as far as I can tell the modding tools are not yet completely public (or just not complete).
The steam player chart went from 250k players to 24k and people are still uninstalling because of obvious reasons.

I feel like we, the players should be inspiring the devs with optimistic opinions and encouragement, but I just can't do it anymore, I did that after the game released, I was always saying that this is a truly fantastic game, and it will get so much better, but it didn't, it's been a year and the game is still … I don't even know what it is, it's just feature lacking and still has ctdo's. It's a lame horse after all.

And I think all of us gathering here and complaining means that we are hurt, after all we were all in love with this series at one point.
 
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MavDrac

Recruit
I uninstalled BN at version 1.2.1 or so because it was full of bugs, very undeveloped and mods were updating daily because they were constantly changing their engine, I thought about giving this game time to evolve and come 1 year later and play it like a butterlord. I did not read the updates never, because I really wanted to be surprised when I come back to it, let it blow me away as one would say.

I came back yesterday, installed 1.5.9, played a fully 60 minutes (Only had Better Time Installed, because I feel like this should also be in the game, they are just stubborn to implement it, also the most downloaded mods that make quality of like improvements should all be implemented, but who cares)
.
This is what I found different:

Nothing changed when starting the game, not even the useless bonuses when choosing your culture.

Battles :
I feel like ranged weapons shoot different than they used to, armor is still a joke, cavalry still very odd, sieges felt exactly the same (AI trying to climb their ladders but failing eventually and forming a blub). (Still need a mod to make battles enjoyable and playable, also need a mod for units to get them to be valuable)

Map:
Nothing changed, or maybe I missed something. (Found a mod that expands the map and makes use of different aspects from it)

Characters:
Skills are changed, improved. Almost complete as it would seem. Some IMG are missing from some skills, but it's been a year, and TW did not fully finish the character's development system. (Still, this is the single part I don't feel like changing with mods)

UI ? Same
A fast talking option was implemented as far as I can tell, lowering loading times.

Oh, the tutorial is almost complete, but still lacking a full campaign.
We do have a brother now.

After acquiring a castle, hunger did not come the second day like it used to.
Still no control over your lords.
No way to recruit units to the garrison without the king going on daily recruitment trips.
Governor still only helps with different passives based on his skills (whom you can't develop) so speaking with him does not give you any kingdom options.

IDK what happened, but I had a kid, and it made me choose what he learns or learned (This is a nice option don't get me wrong, but if I choose that he was a hunter give him +50 or so for hunter related skills, not 10 or 20, that's completely useless)

So I played for some time, did not encounter any bugs or so, the game was stable and smoothly running, even 1k battles felt better, not smooth but better, and after 60 minutes or so of gameplay, I ended up in a crash in a battanian castle siege.

I am so disappointed, truly, I had such big dreams with Bannerlord and such high hopes. They were talking about their community and how they would work with everybody last time I checked.
And I've come here today and see the community waging war against itself, no TW representative to take responsibility or to promise to deliver anything anymore.
Modders moving away to other games because they are done with updating their mods every week cause of system changes.
Oh wait, as far as I can tell the modding tools are not yet completely public (or just not complete).
The steam player chart went from 250k players to 24k and people are still uninstalling because of obvious reasons.

I feel like we, the players should be inspiring the devs with optimistic opinions and encouragement, but I just can't do it anymore, I did that after the game released, I was always saying that this is a truly fantastic game, and it will get so much better, but it didn't, it's been a year and the game is still … I don't even know what it is, it's just feature lacking and still has ctdo's. It's a lame horse after all.

And I think all of us gathering here and complaining means that we are hurt, after all we were all in love with this series at one point.
Just one last thing, where in the seven hells is the most expected feature, being a crime lord ? Building a underworld empire and robbing people... if you made a video on it 2 years ago, how is it possible it's still now in the game ? HOW ?
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Just one last thing, where in the seven hells is the most expected feature, being a crime lord ? Building a underworld empire and robbing people... if you made a video on it 2 years ago, how is it possible it's still now in the game ? HOW ?
Yeah they swept that one under the rug... Same with like most of the other cool things they previously advertised in their devblogs. Someone made a thread with a full list in this forum a while ago and it was quite shocking. I know they can say "subject to change" and things aren't finalized and so forth... But I'd still say it's borderline false marketing.

Worst part is they're not like "okay it'll take longer to implement because it was more complicated than initally anticipated to do", I think we would all be fine and accepting of that. But instead they're just like "nah it probably won't be there hehe".

Edit: Found the thread: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...se-dev-diaries-but-not-in-game-by-now.436973/
 
That´s a sad thread and guess which guy from TW responded to this thread:

I did not said I am happy with game overall, I try to be happy otherwise being always upset / worried reduces your effectiveness. Game has more potential of course and I accept game has missing features and cannot use its potential fully. I also said I prefer older design which has better village management (if that selection was chosed game could be a 95+% rating game but it was a risky design and need more / better workpower to implement. Also that design was mine why I prefer a new design? But one day that design is scrapped (we did this giving up / changing idea thing lots of time during early-mid development) and we moved on with new design. What can you do in this scenario as a dev? I have no control over these main decisions. So if you cannot change these main decisions (skeleton of game) what you can do is trying to make selected design as good as possible. Actually you can clearly see sometimes I am complaining about something like you but trying to improve game in given limits.

About console thing it is not my decision too but have to do some optimization and spend 1-2 weeks at January because it is also wanted and it is reasonable too. This game will be released at also consoles one day. Again underlying I prefer spending time on improving game until PC version is nearly finished. You should understand we are only doing what is decided mostly.
This explains a lot of the stuff that is going on in my opinion.

In the same thread for the lols:

The design can change quickly and drastically before we release the feature as part of Beta and we don't want to build false expectations or otherwise mislead players about it.

...
...

Having said that, we do encourage community members to engage with and share their thoughts on our statements for SP and MP. Similarly, we very much appreciate feedback threads in the appropriate sections or suggestion threads in the designated areas where users share their own ideas. I can assure you that these areas are being checked and that relevant feedback is being reviewed.


Like set false expectations before the EA release? :grin:

Relevant feedback = stuff we already deciced to do?
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
@TheOneThatShallNotBeNamed Yeah TW certainly seem to be organized when they don't even know what will be in the game after 10 years of development lol. And truly what saddens me the most, and I've said this a lot of times is TW's lack of ambition. They seem to be fine cutting corners at every single opportunity.

Heck Conqueror's Blade was supposed to be the "knock-off" M&B MMO yet it feels way more polished than Bannerlord.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Yeah they swept that one under the rug... Same with like most of the other cool things they previously advertised in their devblogs. Someone made a thread with a full list in this forum a while ago and it was quite shocking. I know they can say "subject to change" and things aren't finalized and so forth... But I'd still say it's borderline false marketing.

Worst part is they're not like "okay it'll take longer to implement because it was more complicated than initally anticipated to do", I think we would all be fine and accepting of that. But instead they're just like "nah it probably won't be there hehe".

Edit: Found the thread: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...se-dev-diaries-but-not-in-game-by-now.436973/

That's how they get away with it, by throwing a "subject to change" comment to everything. It's funny when you think about it, because that's what Chronicles of Elyria did and then "released" a piece of garbage completely different from what was shown--including the graphics.
 
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