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My final verdict

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Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
If you can’t understand being able to derive enjoyment from a game whilst also being frustrated with aspects of it idk what to say to you
Look, what's stupid is not playing a game for hundreds of hours while also being frustrated by it. What's stupid is spending hundreds of hours playing the game 1) without figuring it out how to have fun with it, 2) not knowing when to take a break to let that frustration cools down, and 3) constantly complaining about said frustration on forums.

It does nothing but harm yourself. If you want to have fun, look for ways to have fun. Sneaking around in multiplayer, role playing in single player, etc. If you can't have fun still, take a break until you feel like playing again. Feeling burnt out is normal. If you want the game to be better, give useful feedback with as much info as you can. Another stupid thing people do is being rude and toxic while giving feedback. That's how you make people stop listening to you.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant
Weird reply. Thrones of Brittania was more of the same.

I agree, I kinda get where Calabanar is coming from, but investing hundreds or even thousands of hours in Bannerlord over the past year, while they aren't happy with the game, is a bit strange to me. First playthrough of the game was awesome, the rest of them just kept getting worse. After 130 hours with the SP and MP, I was thoroughly dissatisfied and done. It shouldn't take 3,000 hours to figure that out.
It wasn’t a chore for the 400 hours. Otherwise I wouldn’t have kept on playing. Some people can go through a lot of grinding and experimentation to make every ounce of fun they can from a game, even more so I they are passionate about it. This was probably MostBlunted’s case, because it really sounded like he cared.

Is keeping on playing stupid from a reasonable/pragmatic view? yes. Is being so passionate about something you have so little control over something we should avoid? Yes as well. But here is the thing, Bannerlord isn‘t your run of the mill indie game, it’s a game that was greatly anticipated by numerous fans of the previous entry in the franchise, and as is often the case in this kind of scenario, there is a lot of sentiment/passion involved.

Sentiments that do, at least for a while, override logic. It is good that this approach is an exception and not the rule, but it shouldn’t be a surprising encounter either, nor one people should look down upon.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
I am 55 years old and I have been playing since the 80s, only computer games, I never had consoles, and I can say that few games have caused me the addition that this game causes.
It is not perfect, nothing is, but there is everything that ties us to it, can it get better? Of course it can, but for now I will be using mods to fill flaws and add content. The game is above average so it is only because of a lot of bad will that one can be talking bad about the game, people are used to having everything they want and think that everything should be done to fit their tastes.
 
You know what is the difference between us? I am 30 years gamer and 15 years software developer with B.Sc in Computer Science (that is 6 years in University), I can appreciate and understand the amount of work that went into this game, I am not sure you can...

I can spend thousands of hours trying to polish a turd till it shines like the brightest sun but it is and always will be just a turd.

Imagine gatekeeping game enjoyment
 

a_ver_est

Knight
It is not perfect, nothing is, but there is everything that ties us to it, can it get better? Of course it can, but for now I will be using mods to fill flaws and add content. The game is above average so it is only because of a lot of bad will that one can be talking bad about the game, people are used to having everything they want and think that everything should be done to fit their tastes.

I bought the game knowing that it was unfinished, I had fun for sure but I also feel that the product was unpolished. It didn't bother me because I knew that the development was still open and hoped that they will improve the game slowly patch after patch, so I wrote a good review and warned 'have patience'

The things changed when I realized that some missing or feeling unfinished feature where in reality 'design decisions', like not giving control to the player of his clan's parties, not allowing the player define targets/strategy for his own kingdom, etc. Those decisions are hard to understood for veteran player because they are a very different approach from what previous titles in the franchise had.

At that moment I got frustrated with TW and stopped playing, for me it is not a problem that the game is still immature... it is a problem that the development roadmap goals are far from what me (and probably other fans) expected from the next title of WB.

So, in the end the story will repeat... and once TW ended the development some mods will be a 'must have' to feel that the game is finished for many people, it happened with WB when the diplomacy mod become an standard base for most players.
 

julijs

Sergeant
WBNWVC
At that moment I got frustrated with TW and stopped playing, for me it is not a problem that the game is still immature... it is a problem that the development roadmap goals are far from what me (and probably other fans) expected from the next title of WB.
+1
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
I bought the game knowing that it was unfinished, I had fun for sure but I also feel that the product was unpolished. It didn't bother me because I knew that the development was still open and hoped that they will improve the game slowly patch after patch, so I wrote a good review and warned 'have patience'

The things changed when I realized that some missing or feeling unfinished feature where in reality 'design decisions', like not giving control to the player of his clan's parties, not allowing the player define targets/strategy for his own kingdom, etc. Those decisions are hard to understood for veteran player because they are a very different approach from what previous titles in the franchise had.

At that moment I got frustrated with TW and stopped playing, for me it is not a problem that the game is still immature... it is a problem that the development roadmap goals are far from what me (and probably other fans) expected from the next title of WB.

So, in the end the story will repeat... and once TW ended the development some mods will be a 'must have' to feel that the game is finished for many people, it happened with WB when the diplomacy mod become an standard base for most players.
That's the point, I personally see the game and the mods as a whole, for me they are an integral part of the game, they fill a large part of the flaws, in that particular case, there is a mod that gives total control of the parties,and you can find a fix or a add for everything.
 

a_ver_est

Knight
That's the point, I personally see the game and the mods as a whole, for me they are an integral part of the game, they fill a large part of the flaws, in that particular case, there is a mod that gives total control of the parties,and you can find a fix or a add for everything.
I agree, but honestly it is a shame that TW as been unable to understood the invaluable feedback that WB mods represented, they 'just' had to check were are the most time repeated features implemented by mods and incorporate similar once in BL.

Diplomacy mod is a good example, almost all big mods incorporate it as base to build up their own product ... ¿which are the diplomacy options in BL? None ¿which are the planned once? None ¿which is the roadmap? let the AI decide.
 
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I've done a lot of testing and mucking around with mods myself, I've also completely conquered the map without cheesing it, I understand the grind. However I would not have persisted if I wasn't having fun at the same time.

You obviously get some sort of enjoyment out of the game as well otherwise you would not be putting in the time you have. That's the part that gets me, all these players with hundred of hours, yet they claim they're bored or the game is trash. Well WTF are they doing playing it then? Maybe I'm strange, but if something bores me, I go do something else.

I can probably squeeze 20 hours out of most AAA titles and you have people here complaining about hundreds, if not thousands of hours of game time out of a game still in development and they're still unhappy. Absolute insanity.

Do I think the game needs improvements? Of course, plenty. Am I going to jump on the forums stinking up the place every day proclaiming how bad the game is and how useless the devs are (not talking about you directly)? No, that changes nothing. It just turns this place into a cesspit and then they wonder why it's rare to see dev interaction here.

The "problem" with Bannerlord is that high hour count is not an indicative of fun, it is not a game that has designed levels, there is no clear objective and grinding to get to whatever you want to do is time consuming. You may have 10 hours, for example, and only actually enjoyed 2, but those previous 8 were a requirement to get to those 2.

Negativity and criticism didn't happen overnight, to understand how people came to the current levels of negativity we have to go back to the start of EA, I saw plenty people, me included, defending TW and saying we should give them time, it was too early to criticize them. As time went by, TaleWorlds didn't deliver, there are bugs being introduced while older ones are left unfixed, there are core features half done and left untouched, dozens of very well written suggestions were gathered by moderators into "Top Suggestions" threads and were left ignored, there is pretty much no communication, the few pieces of information we get is provided by some developers on their own time and one of those is even set to leave TaleWorlds.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I don’t like how people here hold time invested in the game as direct proof that there was satisfaction from the game. Because, it just completely forgets the context. It was just repeated attempts to enjoy a game that I, in my case, have been expecting since I was a teen. I loved Warband and expected so much more from Bannerlord. The game isn’t bad per se, but it is so underwhelming... it kills the fun.
I'm not saying you must've had fun, I'm saying that this is a game and the only reason to play it is if you're having fun. Like, the instant that Bannerlord stops being fun for me, I exit out and play something else.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Look, what's stupid is not playing a game for hundreds of hours while also being frustrated by it. What's stupid is spending hundreds of hours playing the game 1) without figuring it out how to have fun with it, 2) not knowing when to take a break to let that frustration cools down, and 3) constantly complaining about said frustration on forums.

It does nothing but harm yourself. If you want to have fun, look for ways to have fun. Sneaking around in multiplayer, role playing in single player, etc. If you can't have fun still, take a break until you feel like playing again. Feeling burnt out is normal. If you want the game to be better, give useful feedback with as much info as you can. Another stupid thing people do is being rude and toxic while giving feedback. That's how you make people stop listening to you.
Idk why so many people on here feel the need to give this sort of advice and imply that everyone complaining about the game are basically idiots who need to get a life. Whole point of the forum is to discuss the game, you're always going to get people being rude and toxic on the internet, no matter what. Vast majority of what I see on here isn't that extreme apart from the occasional stupid overdramatic thread which nobody should take seriously.

I'm not saying you must've had fun, I'm saying that this is a game and the only reason to play it is if you're having fun. Like, the instant that Bannerlord stops being fun for me, I exit out and play something else.
People play games for different reasons. I'm not a big gamer, this is pretty much the only game I'm interested in atm. If a campaign gets boring I'll start another one and try and make it different, when that gets boring I'll usually not play at all for a couple of weeks. Sometimes a campaign will be really fun whilst also being hampered by a lot of the design choices, missing features etc. hence the complaining on here.
 
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It wasn’t a chore for the 400 hours. Otherwise I wouldn’t have kept on playing. Some people can go through a lot of grinding and experimentation to make every ounce of fun they can from a game, even more so I they are passionate about it. This was probably MostBlunted’s case, because it really sounded like he cared.

Is keeping on playing stupid from a reasonable/pragmatic view? yes. Is being so passionate about something you have so little control over something we should avoid? Yes as well. But here is the thing, Bannerlord isn‘t your run of the mill indie game, it’s a game that was greatly anticipated by numerous fans of the previous entry in the franchise, and as is often the case in this kind of scenario, there is a lot of sentiment/passion involved.

Sentiments that do, at least for a while, override logic. It is good that this approach is an exception and not the rule, but it shouldn’t be a surprising encounter either, nor one people should look down upon.
You're right, it's not that surprising nor should it be looked down upon. Hundreds of hours is one thing, but 2,000 hours+ for some people is still absolutely bonkers to me. I haven't even put that much time in Warband over the past 8 years. It just seems ridiculously excessive. I do think that people should not be wasting their time with this game when they don't enjoy it. I understand it, but I still wish they would do something else with their time, at least play a game that is actually fun and incredibly enjoyable if nothing else. Video games are supposed to be fun. Bannerlord has its fun moments, but there is so much frustration and annoyance along with that. I totally get people who have put a ton of time in the game and are still very frustrated with it, but it's not recreational time spent in the best manner, in my opinion.

The people who say "you shouldn't say negative things about the game, it's unhealthy" are making a very strange argument. I make all kinds of negative comments towards Bannerlord, yet I'm generally not angering myself any more than normal, and I'm not concerning myself with it very much outside the forums. Most people get that there's more to life than Bannerlord. That doesn't mean that they can't be passionate or disappointed. I find it fun, amusing, and self-expressive to talk about Bannerlord and grievances with the game and TW. I don't find myself jeopardizing mental health by using the forums and not being afraid to express negativity. It's fun and cathartic, because the underlying frustration is there regardless of what I do, but I don't let it interfere with my regular life much. Most people expressing negativity are the same way, at least I hope.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant
I'm not saying you must've had fun, I'm saying that this is a game and the only reason to play it is if you're having fun. Like, the instant that Bannerlord stops being fun for me, I exit out and play something else.
Which is what most people try to achieve playing Bannerlord, even despite the frustrations it causes. That and testing to and give useful feedback that would help turn the game into something they envy because they feel attached to the game.

We agree overall though, a lot of those being negative about the game have made a break, and so have I, it is indeed the best thing to do, no arguing on that point.

You're right, it's not that surprising nor should it be looked down upon. Hundreds of hours is one thing, but 2,000 hours+ for some people is still absolutely bonkers to me. I haven't even put that much time in Warband over the past 8 years. It just seems ridiculously excessive. I do think that people should not be wasting their time with this game when they don't enjoy it. I understand it, but I still wish they would do something else with their time, at least play a game that is actually fun and incredibly enjoyable if nothing else. Video games are supposed to be fun. Bannerlord has its fun moments, but there is so much frustration and annoyance along with that. I totally get people who have put a ton of time in the game and are still very frustrated with it, but it's not recreational time spent in the best manner, in my opinion.

The people who say "you shouldn't say negative things about the game, it's unhealthy" are making a very strange argument. I make all kinds of negative comments towards Bannerlord, yet I'm generally not angering myself any more than normal, and I'm not concerning myself with it very much outside the forums. Most people get that there's more to life than Bannerlord. That doesn't mean that they can't be passionate or disappointed. I find it fun, amusing, and self-expressive to talk about Bannerlord and grievances with the game and TW. I don't find myself jeopardizing mental health by using the forums and not being afraid to express negativity. It's fun and cathartic, because the underlying frustration is there regardless of what I do, but I don't let it interfere with my regular life much. Most people expressing negativity are the same way, at least I hope.
It seems we agree then. Though I expect those who complain about the game whilst still playing it regularly with thousands of hours already registered to be the ones giving the most feedback, basically taking a pretty active role in the game’s development despite being outsiders. If its not the case however, it then becomes concerning for the person concerned...

Whatever, we all have our problems.:shifty:
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Hundreds of hours is one thing, but 2,000 hours+ for some people is still absolutely bonkers to me.
I think anyone with such high numbers is probably leaving the game running all day long while they're doing other things. 2000 hours in a year is what you work in a 9–5 job.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I think anyone with such high numbers is probably leaving the game running all day long while they're doing other things. 2000 hours in a year is what you work in a 9–5 job.
I got most of my hours while on hard lockdown, where I had nothing to do other than play games for like 14 hours a day.
 

tlowey

Sergeant at Arms
I got most of my hours while on hard lockdown, where I had nothing to do other than play games for like 14 hours a day.
Same here I am retired could not go out apart from essential trips. So played a lot of hours my complaints are about late game.
 
That truly was a final verdict.

Here's mine. The game is what it is, love it or leave it. It may change and get better or it may just stay what it is with better slightly better AI pathing. Once it was released in EA, the writing was on the wall and it will only change slowly.

It is empty at times and I quit when I get bored. I dislike sandbox because it somehow feels even more empty. I actually missed my siblings. I come back every few months or weeks because at its core it is all I've ever wanted in a game.

Play it every few months, but don't keep hitting your head against the wall if it isn't fun. In a few years when the games is actually complete and there are some fun mods, come back. Or don't, who cares?
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Negativity and criticism didn't happen overnight, to understand how people came to the current levels of negativity we have to go back to the start of EA, I saw plenty people, me included, defending TW and saying we should give them time, it was too early to criticize them. As time went by, TaleWorlds didn't deliver, there are bugs being introduced while older ones are left unfixed, there are core features half done and left untouched, dozens of very well written suggestions were gathered by moderators into "Top Suggestions" threads and were left ignored, there is pretty much no communication, the few pieces of information we get is provided by some developers on their own time and one of those is even set to leave TaleWorlds.
Exactly, couldn't have said it better, many were more than willing to give TW time when the EA started hoping they would eventually deliver, i still have hope some things will improve but i've become completely disapointed with TW as time went by and we learned those missing and underwelming features were by design, they don't seem to know what their fan-base loved about the previous games and think it's shinning graphics and hollywood "coolness".

Just look at my history from a year ago, i was the biggest white-knight around these forums smiting the non-believers in the powers of "soon", man what a fall from grace that was..
 
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