estevesbk
Sergeant
Hello! 
Instead of making someone to read the entire topic on all the discussions and conclusions, I decided to update my first post.
Hopefully someone that reads may at least understand my way on how to handle Vassals.
Note that this applies to M&B Warband 1.153 and Diplomacy 4.3, I don't know if anything was changed on later versions.
------------------------------------------------
FINAL UPDATE: Due to the high enough number of Martial lords, I've changed a little my strategy from the post below:
- 1 castle and no villages for each Martial Lord.
- 1 Village and no Castle for each goodnatured/upstanding Lord.
- The remaining of the Villages and all the Towns for me.
- The rest of the lords personalities are refused. Not that calculating are that bad, but there is enough martial lords for you to not need them.
Of course, goodnatured/upstanding are very good guys and should deserve a castle but if they get defeated your relation with them is so high that it won't matter much. Martial Lords on the other hand could matter so they should have more troops, which is what a castle offers - it basically double the number of troops of the Lord.
Also, I make the following policy: ALL the goodnatured/upstanding lords are accepted. Martial lords I just leave the ones I can't give a castle with no answer, so the waiting for one can last a lot of time
Using the "exchange fiefs" and "call the vassals" strategies described below you won't get a relation penalty for giving each martial lord a castle, but a relation boost with everyone for giving a village first and then exchanging to a castle.
One final point is that also using the "exchange fiefs" strategy I am able to re-locate the goodnatured/upstanding lords for all the villages that a castle owns. So you basically have 2 lords (1 goodnatured/upstanding + 1 martial) working together and defending the same place. If they don't agree to exchange a village for one near a castle is because its prosperity is too poor. Own the village, go to the Chamberlain, change the tax to "very low" and wait 1-2 weeks.
This may seem too much of micromanagement, but: Everyone likes me and I don't even throw any feast!
The rest that I've posted below applies:
------------------------------------------------
1. Lords Personalities:
Each lord has an own personality, which makes them better or worse to have in your Kingdom. Will affect things like fief distribution, helping the villagers of their fiefs, among other things:
Upstanding and Goodnatured - These are the best ones to have. They are good people and will like you simply because you have high honor.
Martial - You will not have a relation boost with them because of high honor, but they make pretty decent lords. They will usually - 90% of the times - support a new lord that has no land for getting a village instead of supporting themselves.
Calculating - Not as good as Martial/Upstanding/Goodnatured, but not as bad as the others. Their behavior is similar to Martial lords, just a little worse. They will more often not support a lord with no lands and give some speeches that you should not have released an enemy prisoner or helped their villagers. But you don't get a relation hit for doing that.
Pitiless/Debauched/Quarrelsome - Just don't. No one likes them.
There are plenty of Martial lords, they seem to be the most common type. So, I would recommend always getting Upstanding/Goodnatured/Martial lords, and getting Calculating if you are short on lords and need more.
2. Accepting a new Lord:
There is a basic issue. In Diplomacy, after capturing your first Town, you will be able to appoint a Chancellor. He will tell you about the personality of every lord in your or other Kingdoms. But he will not be able to tell the personality of a lord willing to join your Kingdom, it's like they don't even exist.
The solution is simple and a bit dull: Save your game, accept the vassal, ask the Chancellor about the Lord Personality which will now be in your Kingdom and if it's not one that you desire, reload the game and decline him.
3. Assigning a New Fief:
For me, the best strategy so far seems to be giving castles for the lords and keeping the towns and most of the villages for yourself. Maybe some villages for lords when you're out of castles.
That's the funny part. When you ask who should deserve a village for one of the suggested kind of lords, they will usually say the lord with no fiefs (make sure to accept and give a fief to one lord at a time though or the "lord with no fief" will be more than one and their opinion will be divided).
But when asking about a town/castle, their opinions differ a lot, and almost never supporting the lord with no fiefs.
So, first, you will want to assign all the towns and castles to yourself, talking to your Minister (which should be one of the companions you find on the taverns) and leave the villages unassigned.
Then you will ask your Chancellor to send a message to every lord in your Kingdom, asking them to accompany you on the field (never give up being the Marshal). You will wait in one place and talk to everyone after they arrive and ask them about who should get the fief. Then after asking you tell them they no longer need to accompany you. I like to start a new campaign too just in case and then end the campaign after I've asked everyone.
This part is important because if you immediately assign a fief to a lord with no fiefs without asking the lords first who they will support, you will get always a relation penalty with everyone. But by doing that, you will get a relation boost with about 90% of them. A new lord will never be a headache anymore but quite the opposite, an opportunity to boost the relation with everyone.
This may seem a little tedious, but that depends on your playing style. I use the time waiting for the vassals to arrive to upgrade my recruits to the first level above recruit, so they in numbers may give a decent garrison for my Towns and reinforcement for my lord's castles.
4. Exchanging the fief: Now all you have to do is to ask the lord if he wants to exchange fiefs, and exchange his village for one of your castles. They will always accept. No relation penalty and no one will complain. It is like you have given the castle to the lord at the first place.
This way you will get almost all the income (villages) and they will have the incomes/expenses (castle/garrison). It's like if you have get the villages and gave the castles to the lords at first place.
5. Villages and Castles: This is a little curious but castles boost A LOT the number of troops a lord can have, and not only +20 as I've seen on Tweak M&B. Villages not. I believe they are not even needed by a lord that already have a castle. Their only purpose is to keep lords happy by having at least one fief.
There are many good lords (upstanding/goodnatured/martial). They are certainly enough for you to assign one, and only one castle and no villages to each one. Their army will be decent and they will be less likely to lose combats.
You can choose however to assign villages to lords if you've ran out of castles to give and want more vassals. But there is no difference in assigning 1 or 10 villages to a lord. Nothing changes. You may later even exchange fiefs when you capture a new castle, so lords with currently 1 village will have 1 castle and you will get their village.
So, 1 castle OR 1 village is more than enough for each lord.
They never complain if you assign a fief to yourself so you can have as many villages as you want, soon you will reach the tax inefficiency cap.
6. Misc:
With these hints, in theory, you will never need to host a feast just to please the lords.
With Diplomacy, I've choose very high decentralization and a little aristocratic for my Kingdom's policies. This gives me +4 boost to every lord after a certain number of days has passed and doesn't hurt too much my income.
I adjust the tax rate for the villages with the Chamberlain for "low". That seems to help them prosper and every week gives a +1 relation bonus. I also do that for towns, but just because I am a good guy
Well, that's it. I don't know if everything I said is right and if there is a better way of doing things. But this way you can enjoy a nice relation with all your vassals and a high income from the towns and the many villages you have beating the tax inefficiency cap.
Here is my original post, just for reference:
Instead of making someone to read the entire topic on all the discussions and conclusions, I decided to update my first post.
Hopefully someone that reads may at least understand my way on how to handle Vassals.
Note that this applies to M&B Warband 1.153 and Diplomacy 4.3, I don't know if anything was changed on later versions.
------------------------------------------------
FINAL UPDATE: Due to the high enough number of Martial lords, I've changed a little my strategy from the post below:
- 1 castle and no villages for each Martial Lord.
- 1 Village and no Castle for each goodnatured/upstanding Lord.
- The remaining of the Villages and all the Towns for me.
- The rest of the lords personalities are refused. Not that calculating are that bad, but there is enough martial lords for you to not need them.
Of course, goodnatured/upstanding are very good guys and should deserve a castle but if they get defeated your relation with them is so high that it won't matter much. Martial Lords on the other hand could matter so they should have more troops, which is what a castle offers - it basically double the number of troops of the Lord.
Also, I make the following policy: ALL the goodnatured/upstanding lords are accepted. Martial lords I just leave the ones I can't give a castle with no answer, so the waiting for one can last a lot of time
Using the "exchange fiefs" and "call the vassals" strategies described below you won't get a relation penalty for giving each martial lord a castle, but a relation boost with everyone for giving a village first and then exchanging to a castle.
One final point is that also using the "exchange fiefs" strategy I am able to re-locate the goodnatured/upstanding lords for all the villages that a castle owns. So you basically have 2 lords (1 goodnatured/upstanding + 1 martial) working together and defending the same place. If they don't agree to exchange a village for one near a castle is because its prosperity is too poor. Own the village, go to the Chamberlain, change the tax to "very low" and wait 1-2 weeks.
This may seem too much of micromanagement, but: Everyone likes me and I don't even throw any feast!
The rest that I've posted below applies:
------------------------------------------------
1. Lords Personalities:
Each lord has an own personality, which makes them better or worse to have in your Kingdom. Will affect things like fief distribution, helping the villagers of their fiefs, among other things:
Upstanding and Goodnatured - These are the best ones to have. They are good people and will like you simply because you have high honor.
Martial - You will not have a relation boost with them because of high honor, but they make pretty decent lords. They will usually - 90% of the times - support a new lord that has no land for getting a village instead of supporting themselves.
Calculating - Not as good as Martial/Upstanding/Goodnatured, but not as bad as the others. Their behavior is similar to Martial lords, just a little worse. They will more often not support a lord with no lands and give some speeches that you should not have released an enemy prisoner or helped their villagers. But you don't get a relation hit for doing that.
Pitiless/Debauched/Quarrelsome - Just don't. No one likes them.
There are plenty of Martial lords, they seem to be the most common type. So, I would recommend always getting Upstanding/Goodnatured/Martial lords, and getting Calculating if you are short on lords and need more.
2. Accepting a new Lord:
There is a basic issue. In Diplomacy, after capturing your first Town, you will be able to appoint a Chancellor. He will tell you about the personality of every lord in your or other Kingdoms. But he will not be able to tell the personality of a lord willing to join your Kingdom, it's like they don't even exist.
The solution is simple and a bit dull: Save your game, accept the vassal, ask the Chancellor about the Lord Personality which will now be in your Kingdom and if it's not one that you desire, reload the game and decline him.
3. Assigning a New Fief:
For me, the best strategy so far seems to be giving castles for the lords and keeping the towns and most of the villages for yourself. Maybe some villages for lords when you're out of castles.
That's the funny part. When you ask who should deserve a village for one of the suggested kind of lords, they will usually say the lord with no fiefs (make sure to accept and give a fief to one lord at a time though or the "lord with no fief" will be more than one and their opinion will be divided).
But when asking about a town/castle, their opinions differ a lot, and almost never supporting the lord with no fiefs.
So, first, you will want to assign all the towns and castles to yourself, talking to your Minister (which should be one of the companions you find on the taverns) and leave the villages unassigned.
Then you will ask your Chancellor to send a message to every lord in your Kingdom, asking them to accompany you on the field (never give up being the Marshal). You will wait in one place and talk to everyone after they arrive and ask them about who should get the fief. Then after asking you tell them they no longer need to accompany you. I like to start a new campaign too just in case and then end the campaign after I've asked everyone.
This part is important because if you immediately assign a fief to a lord with no fiefs without asking the lords first who they will support, you will get always a relation penalty with everyone. But by doing that, you will get a relation boost with about 90% of them. A new lord will never be a headache anymore but quite the opposite, an opportunity to boost the relation with everyone.
This may seem a little tedious, but that depends on your playing style. I use the time waiting for the vassals to arrive to upgrade my recruits to the first level above recruit, so they in numbers may give a decent garrison for my Towns and reinforcement for my lord's castles.
4. Exchanging the fief: Now all you have to do is to ask the lord if he wants to exchange fiefs, and exchange his village for one of your castles. They will always accept. No relation penalty and no one will complain. It is like you have given the castle to the lord at the first place.
This way you will get almost all the income (villages) and they will have the incomes/expenses (castle/garrison). It's like if you have get the villages and gave the castles to the lords at first place.
5. Villages and Castles: This is a little curious but castles boost A LOT the number of troops a lord can have, and not only +20 as I've seen on Tweak M&B. Villages not. I believe they are not even needed by a lord that already have a castle. Their only purpose is to keep lords happy by having at least one fief.
There are many good lords (upstanding/goodnatured/martial). They are certainly enough for you to assign one, and only one castle and no villages to each one. Their army will be decent and they will be less likely to lose combats.
You can choose however to assign villages to lords if you've ran out of castles to give and want more vassals. But there is no difference in assigning 1 or 10 villages to a lord. Nothing changes. You may later even exchange fiefs when you capture a new castle, so lords with currently 1 village will have 1 castle and you will get their village.
So, 1 castle OR 1 village is more than enough for each lord.
They never complain if you assign a fief to yourself so you can have as many villages as you want, soon you will reach the tax inefficiency cap.
6. Misc:
With these hints, in theory, you will never need to host a feast just to please the lords.
With Diplomacy, I've choose very high decentralization and a little aristocratic for my Kingdom's policies. This gives me +4 boost to every lord after a certain number of days has passed and doesn't hurt too much my income.
I adjust the tax rate for the villages with the Chamberlain for "low". That seems to help them prosper and every week gives a +1 relation bonus. I also do that for towns, but just because I am a good guy
Well, that's it. I don't know if everything I said is right and if there is a better way of doing things. But this way you can enjoy a nice relation with all your vassals and a high income from the towns and the many villages you have beating the tax inefficiency cap.
Here is my original post, just for reference:
Greetings!
I find Lords a bunch of crybabies but before deciding on going solo, I would like if possible to confirm a little more of these personalities. So I could decide if I will:
- Really build a Kingdom without Vassals;
- Build a Kingdom with only upstanding and goodnatured Vassals;
- Upstanding + Goodnatured + Martial;
- Upstanding + Goodnatured + Martial + Calculating.
The guides on personalities are not too specific at some points. Here's what I think it happens:
(Consider I'm using Diplomacy Mod if anything changes from Native)
GIVING FIEFS:
Martial: Will always support a vassal with no fiefs if there is one.
Calculating: Will not support the vassal with no fiefs.
Both of Them: Need to wait something like 2 game days or you will always get a relation hit because they haven't decided yet.
Both of Them: Don't care (no relation up or down) if you give a fief to yourself (this is the most important item that needs confirmation)
NOT CAPTURING A LORD AFTER A BATTLE:
Martial: Will compliment you about the act.
Calculating: Will tell you, THE KING, that you were wrong and that "Chivalry does not win wars"
HELPING A VILLAGE THEY OWN:
Martial: Something like "you're the king and I know you mean well but I don't care enough to get a relation up"
Calculating: Will tell you ,THE KING, that you should not have helped them, although you don't get the relation down as it happens with some of the scum below them.
I've also noticed that in both cases it's pointless to try to make them change their minds and support someone else for a fief, never works.
Am I right in all these assumptions? Am I missing something else?
Thanks
