My dissapointment grows. Game still feels barren.

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Moton

Sergeant at Arms
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Procedural generation of levels is in tonnes of modern games, you just don't notice it when it's done well, same as how most open world AAA games are "handcrafted" to some extent but look like they were made by robots or have a lot of boring repetition.
Oh yes I do notice them. Who are you to tell me I dont know. I know when it is and I dont think I've ever found any of them good.
 

Revverie

Knight at Arms
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The problem with Bannerlord is that the devs, instead of thinking of new ways to solve the issues of the previous game just pressed delete in a bunch of mechanics

Marriage, sometimes it's too demanding and repetitive to court a lady. Try to think a new way to improve this mechanic and make it more interesting and less tedious? Nope, deleted, get married in two days if you pass 3 dialog checks

Right to rule, cool mechanic in theory since you need people supporting your claim in order to be a king, you can't just take a land and say I'm a king now, wether it's villagers or clan members you would need actual support, in practice it could become tedious and more a task rather than a fun mechanic. How about we find new ways to make this a fun step, and a cool mechanic? Nope, deleted.

Feasts, because wealthy rich people actually loved using their money, rich people didn't just roamed the land making useless armies in peace times just patrolling around nowhere, they had tournaments, drunk wine, talked ****, but it was unbalanced because AI is too dumb to recognize that a feast doesn't make sense when you have one town left. How about improving it, changing the AI, using your imagination? Nope, too much, mechanic deleted goodbye

Apply this to every mechanic missing in Bannerlord, including Multiplayer. I swear in like one year or something mods will turn this game into an actually interesting one, because the bots that lack imagination in this team may be good to do a nice UI and a pretty world but the dynamics and immersion it's a 0, there is 0 creativity into this game, terrible game design
 

AJAJP_Juan

Knight
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Right to rule, cool mechanic in theory since you need people supporting your claim in order to be a king, you can't just take a land and say I'm a king now, wether it's villagers or clan members you would need actual support, in practice it could become tedious and more a task rather than a fun mechanic. How about we find new ways to make this a fun step, and a cool mechanic? Nope, deleted.
Pretty sure town security and loyalty will play into this, and is IMO much better than RtR of Warband.
 

Andrei[beast]

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
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Apparently people aren't into influence as much as right to rule, eh?
I think it's quite a cool add-on compared to how right to rule was. And before you say that gaining right to ruole through relation was cool well now in BL if you have big relation with some lords they will support you with influence accordingly
 
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Oh yes I do notice them. Who are you to tell me I dont know. I know when it is and I dont think I've ever found any of them good.
I can guarantee you don't notice the procedural generation in most games because the only way of knowing whether they did it or not is to read the papers submitted by the developers or the talks they give at conventions. Just because something isn't randomly generated every time you load the game like in minecraft, doesn't mean that they didn't use procedural generation to help build the level. Almost every game with cities or landscape or roads uses an algorithm to generate stuff. Warband uses it to generate faces, battlefields, parts of the world map and even the familial relationships between lords. It's just a lot easier for developers to work this way rather than "handcrafting" everything, which can in some cases give less natural results than an algorithm.

Apparently people aren't into influence as much as right to rule, eh?
I think it's quite a cool add-on compared to how right to rule was. And before you say that gaining right to ruole through relation was cool well now in BL if you have big relation with some lords they will support you with influence accordingly
Right to rule was a good concept, but it should have removed the stupid "send your companions out" thing, which was just meaningless and lazy in an otherwise fairly open game. What was good about RtR is that it increased when you won a war (i.e. made peace), when you became a lord, when you got married and so on, all things that corresponded with becoming part of the feudal system. If you wanted to remain outside of it and raid stuff, you would be far less likely to become a lord. It made a lot of sense in the game, even if it was poorly designed.
 

Moton

Sergeant at Arms
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I can guarantee you don't notice the procedural generation in most games because the only way of knowing whether they did it or not is to read the papers submitted by the developers or the talks they give at conventions. Just because something isn't randomly generated every time you load the game like in minecraft, doesn't mean that they didn't use procedural generation to help build the level. Almost every game with cities or landscape or roads uses an algorithm to generate stuff. Warband uses it to generate faces, battlefields, parts of the world map and even the familial relationships between lords. It's just a lot easier for developers to work this way rather than "handcrafting" everything, which can in some cases give less natural results than an algorithm..
Please do tell me about these games I've played and not noticed the procedural generation from. I really want to be convinced but I doubt it. I mean first of all you dont know what types of games I play and I'm pretty sure I dont play those games where this occur except Age of Empires. Other than that I mostly play game like Divinity, Skyrim, Diablo (Where the super lame and boring Rifts are procedural) Doom, Counter Strike, Mount&Blade where in Warband the battle maps sucked so many balls it was hard to count, Witcher, Company of heroes, Hunt showdown etc. All of wich have meaningfull handcrafted worlds and maps. Anno is also a game I'm playing where this is happening and working quite good, like Age of Empires.

And I know Diablo 2 had procedural generated maps wich was okay but I doubt it was better compared if they handcrafted those worlds aswell. All comes down to time and resources but I'm quite convinced after playing many game that have procedural generated worlds and compare them to handcrafted none of the generated are better.

My point is that every game I've played wich are procedural look and feels alot more shallow and empty compared to games wich are not.

Rougelike games are the only games that procedural world making makes sence because I dont really play them for that reason. Hand of Fate is a good example where the maps kinda have to be procedural.

To add, I've ofcourse played alot more games then the ones listen, I got like 200 games on Steam and even more on CD collection since the late 90's to 2010, playing games is literally what I do as a hobby.

Edit: I'm talking about WORLD making not details like faces or colour of door frames...
 

froggyluv

Master Knight
NW
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You can define rough, semi-passable and impassable terrain; choke points; hilltop and forward slope defensive positions. You actually have to do that, because the AI doesn't (AFAICT) understand how to read and exploit terrain otherwise. And it is 100% working in-game currently. If you go to one of the steppe maps, there is a giant boulder close to one of the spawn points that (if you have more ranged power than them) the AI will shelter behind/around rather than charge you or stand out in the open somewhere.
Neat i had no idea.
 

Sidhwen_Khorest

Veteran
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While I agree I'd like to see more content and features overall than is currently in the game, some of these items already have a parallel.

>Sending your companions to increase your right-to-rule
You create parties of your companions and they can go out and actually do stuff for your clan, including raising relations and (I think?) raising renown. This is in my opinon more fleshed out than your companion disappears for a while to spread the good word.

>Rescuing lords from captivity
>Working as a tax collector
I'm assuming you mean rescuing lord quests? There are plenty of quests in bannerlord and more keep getting added.

I think if you want to make a list of missing features you should be taking this sort of stuff into account, we don't need a carbon copy.
 

stevehoos

Grandmaster Knight
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The problem with Bannerlord is that the devs, instead of thinking of new ways to solve the issues of the previous game just pressed delete in a bunch of mechanics

Marriage, sometimes it's too demanding and repetitive to court a lady. Try to think a new way to improve this mechanic and make it more interesting and less tedious? Nope, deleted, get married in two days if you pass 3 dialog checks

Right to rule, cool mechanic in theory since you need people supporting your claim in order to be a king, you can't just take a land and say I'm a king now, wether it's villagers or clan members you would need actual support, in practice it could become tedious and more a task rather than a fun mechanic. How about we find new ways to make this a fun step, and a cool mechanic? Nope, deleted.

Feasts, because wealthy rich people actually loved using their money, rich people didn't just roamed the land making useless armies in peace times just patrolling around nowhere, they had tournaments, drunk wine, talked ****, but it was unbalanced because AI is too dumb to recognize that a feast doesn't make sense when you have one town left. How about improving it, changing the AI, using your imagination? Nope, too much, mechanic deleted goodbye

Apply this to every mechanic missing in Bannerlord, including Multiplayer. I swear in like one year or something mods will turn this game into an actually interesting one, because the bots that lack imagination in this team may be good to do a nice UI and a pretty world but the dynamics and immersion it's a 0, there is 0 creativity into this game, terrible game design
Agree 100%. Other than graphics most of this game is regression.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
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In Viking Conquest I felt much more connected to the characters in game. This I can hardy tell the difference between a high tier elite unit and a looter in combat. Bannerlord has much better graphics, but it sucks in terms of immersion. TW is not listening either, gonna have to be major mod overhauls for me to ever play this again.

Aside from tournaments, after last parch elite units are much more effective against low tier units due to armor buff. Sadly people are just talking about how ugly cataphracts are now and completely missing this.
 

Revverie

Knight at Arms
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I mean was I the only one who expected more impressive tournaments that appreciated the character of medieval tourneys? The tournaments are the most lack of imagination thing I've ever seen, the devs just said, you know what, let's leave it just like it was, throw in a special prize or something. It even makes me wonder if people actually want to work there
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
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Yes, tournaments are just an easy way to make money in early game which feels pretty wrong IMO.
 

Deathmacabre

Regular
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While Bannerlord sandbox currently has its problems it is still better then warband sandbox to me. Saying warband sandbox is better andnhad more content is imo not being connected to reallity. Also sandbox from both games has limitations and will never be true experience because of Taleworlds( no harsh feelings devs). True enjoyement will be achieved with mods and when first gid one isnto be released inwill never play sandbox again.
 

five bucks

Regular
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While Bannerlord sandbox currently has its problems it has more content andnhad is better than warband anyone who disagrees is not connected to reallity.
Are you going to back up that statement? Because if you actually compare the two games, it's not convincing.

Here's the extra gameplay content Warband has:
* Feasts, with an accompanying quest for the player to hold their own feast
* Companions who ask you to make decisions and actually keep talking to you after you hire them
* Lord strategic dialogue e.g.: asking them to attack or defend a city without you or warning them that the enemy is coming
* Skill Books
* Political quests such as Intrigue and Denounce a Lord
* Fighting your way out in civilian garb when you fail to sneak into a city or try to smuggle a lord out of prison
* Individual village upgrades
* Pretenders
* Deeper courtship: coming back to visit or sneaking in to visit, quests to gain favor, dedicating tournament victories, learning their likes and dislikes, poetry
* Dueling lords if they insulted you or competed with you for a lover
* Rescuing lords from captivity quest (devs have said this is coming back at some point but Bannerlord doesn't have it yet so it's still a point against it).
* Weddings
* Tax Collector quest, Train peasants to deal with bandits quest, kidnapped girl quest, hunt fugitive quest, assassinate merchant quest, provocation quest, dispute resolution quest
* Recruitable Manhunters who roamed the worldmap hunting bandits who you could jump in to aid in their battles
* Trainable Sword Sisters
* Deserter neutral enemies who roamed the worldmap as a bigger neutral threat than looters
* More weapon variety

Here's the extra gameplay content Bannerlord has at the moment:
* Smithing (not properly implemented yet).
* Fief upgrades
* Policy voting
* Family Feud quest, Tutor a Lord quest, that quest where you sell surplus goods
* Companion parties
* Having children heirs (not properly implemented yet).
* Lords being able to die
* Siege weapons
* le board game

To me it looks like Bannerlord has less total gameplay content than Warband. A game made 10 years ago with a smaller team.

If you compare Bannerlord's gameplay to Viking Conquest's, it looks even worse. VC managed to have creating your own settlement, ambushes, setting camp to rest, dog companions, hunting animals on the worldmap with a unique battle, religions, working as a farmer/logger/miner minigames, naval travel and battles with shipbuilding, custom start and endgoals, etc.
 
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Revverie

Knight at Arms
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While Bannerlord sandbox currently has its problems it is still better then warband sandbox to me. Saying warband sandbox is better andnhad more content is imo not being connected to reallity. Also sandbox from both games has limitations and will never be true experience because of Taleworlds( no harsh feelings devs). True enjoyement will be achieved with mods and when first gid one isnto be released inwill never play sandbox again.
No I actually agree that Bannerlord is better than Warband in a lot of things, its undeniable honestly, the problem is that the game is just so bland anyways, and thats because Warband was quite bland too, you know in a sequel with so much more resources I expected more honestly, and I know, they're adding more stuff as they update the game, but at the same time the game's core mechanics such as marriage, NPC interactions, tournaments, things like this feel bland as heck and I dont see any of this improving the next months
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
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Are you going to back up that statement? Because if you actually compare the two games, it looks like you're the one not connected to reality.

Here's the extra gameplay content Warband has:
* Feasts, with an accompanying quest for the player to hold their own feast
* Companions who ask you to make decisions and actually keep talking to you after you hire them
* Lord strategic dialogue e.g.: asking them to attack or defend a city without you or warning them that the enemy is coming
* Skill Books
* Political quests such as Intrigue and Denounce a Lord
* Fighting your way out in civilian garb when you fail to sneak into a city or try to smuggle a lord out of prison
* Individual village upgrades
* Pretenders
* Deeper courtship: coming back to visit or sneaking in to visit, quests to gain favor, dedicating tournament victories, learning their likes and dislikes, poetry
* Dueling lords if they insulted you or competed with you for a lover
* Rescuing lords from captivity quest (devs have said this is coming back at some point but Bannerlord doesn't have it yet so it's still a point against it).
* Weddings
* Tax Collector quest, Train peasants to deal with bandits quest, kidnapped girl quest, hunt fugitive quest, assassinate merchant quest, provocation quest, dispute resolution quest
* Recruitable Manhunters who roamed the worldmap hunting bandits who you could jump in to aid in their battles
* Trainable Sword Sisters
* Deserter neutral enemies who roamed the worldmap as a bigger neutral threat than looters
* More weapon variety

Here's the extra gameplay content Bannerlord has:
* Smithing (not properly implemented yet).
* Fief upgrades
* Policy voting
* Family Feud quest, Tutor a Lord quest, that quest where you sell surplus goods
* Companion parties
* Having children heirs (not properly implemented yet).
* Lords being able to die
* Siege weapons
* le board game

To me it looks like Bannerlord has less total gameplay content than Warband. A game made 10 years ago with a smaller team.

If you compare Bannerlord's gameplay to Viking Conquest's, it looks even worse. VC managed to have creating your own settlement, ambushes, setting camp to rest, dog companions, hunting animals on the worldmap with a unique battle, religions, working as a farmer/logger/miner minigames, naval travel and battles with shipbuilding, custom start and endgoals, etc.
While I love some of these missing features from Warband, I think that you are missing a lot of new features in Bannerlord:

- Caravans.
- Army system which makes more sense than marshal in Warband where some slower parties were not able to join in big battles.
- Assign companions as captains.
- Play as captain yourself in big armies.
- Clan system and all what this means (having kids and play as them, possibility to create parties lead by family members and companions, etc).
- AI actually has some brain now in battles and use formations. Battles have been actually improved a lot in general. Armies move forward now with cohesion and looks infinitely better than in Warband.
- Rebellions. Not implemented yet but it will be available in some few months I think.

I could say more features, and you probably are also missing some Warband features which are not present in Bannerlord but the thing is that I do not get why you are being so negative with a game which it seems that you actually love (otherwise you would no be in this forum all days).

Anyway, some of the Warband features like manhunters, deserters, etc, are probably pretty easy to implement in Bannerlord and I think we will get them once more relevant features get implemented. If not, this is something that a modded could do without problems.
 

Roy1012

Count
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It's not like Lords would be attending feasts with their entire armies - they would bring a personal retinue with them, and leave those to defend. And it's not like lords don't have retainers and second in command that can take up the defense while they are away.
Hmm, that’s a very good point. Especially now with the implementation of families, nobles should be able to leave command of their main forces with a son, brother or uncle, or the option to send one of them in his stead, depending on the person going, better troops would go, so for example the lord would have a stronger retinue than if he sent his brother, who would have a stronger retinue than his cousin, who may only go with less than a handful of outriders. Perhaps there could be some kind of reputation penalty to sending a family member of lower status? By the way I haven’t played bannerlord much so I may be getting some of this stuff wrong feel free to correct me if necessary. I think this would add another layer to the game as you all are clamoring for, more depth to dynasties and will not be game breaking for the wars.
 

stevehoos

Grandmaster Knight
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I mean was I the only one who expected more impressive tournaments that appreciated the character of medieval tourneys? The tournaments are the most lack of imagination thing I've ever seen, the devs just said, you know what, let's leave it just like it was, throw in a special prize or something. It even makes me wonder if people actually want to work there
The tournaments are lazily done with no effort or immersion whatsoever. The whole game has this feel to it.