My 5 cents

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Dark Art

Veteran
First of all i have to say that this game is VERY promising and done with heart and love (or so it seems) so congrats on that. I am sure that many things will be fixed and tunned up but here is what I think:
On Trade:
Gold is rather easy to get via fighting and looting and kinda hard to get by trade. I dont think its right. Fighting should provide massive XP and stats grow but just enough cash to feed youself and your troops. This is give that kick in the nuts and make player to explore and actually trade, quest OR raid caravans. For now I honestly dont see a point in getting any items from caravans as they are heavy and cost is rather low comparing to a loot u can get from strong party of creeps. Questing on other hand is usefull in the begining but losing its point after about 15th level since payoffs dont grow with your level. Now I am not talking about quests that asking you to get 15 chargers or 10 plate mails. Thouse pay good but I dont really like FedEx quests much so i dont take them (I find thats it takes forever to do and i find it rather borring)

On Shops:
I can understand why you have it as you do meaning selling items of various quality. But think about this: if items that player can buy are same in quality or relatively so it would be a great find to get heavy or balanced item and thoue would be enjoyed much more. For example: black armour would be possible to get ONLY from dead bodies of black knights and think black armour would be possible to get only from "leader" so chance of getting it would be rather slim but I am pretty sure that black knights would be hunted and butchered on sight just for that. Then as u use the gear it wears down and gains "tatered" or "cracked" property on them. Once that happens player can go to local blacksmith abd play for repairs. The reason why I think its better because it will be yet another thing to spend your money and will keep player on more alerted to his invenoty . Same goes for horses. Why not put a veterinarian that can heal your horse if its not beyond healing? One more thing about horses: what if there would be no "chargers" or "war horses" but rather horses that have different blood lines and maybe level up gradually instead of being a just charger or saddle horse? Say arabian horse would have greater speed but lower HP? Things like that would sipce it up greatly I am sure. On top of that spice it would create yet another way to spend you cash as you would have to buy armor for your horse if you would have any on it.
On combat:
Pretty solid here, expept few thing: Polearms are amazinly weak comparing to two handed or even one handed weapons. I think that lances should be unblockable unless you have a shield since its rather easy do simply dodge it and takes forever to get second strike since you have to stop you horse, turn around and charge again. On top of that I think that once you reach a some speed barrier damage should be doubled or even tripled with lance/pike from horseback. When on foot you can not block with thouse weapons due to huge length of it but you can definitely slam the back of it in the ground and take that charging kight on the pike and send him flying :twisted: . That would make it much more realistic and something to be feared of(as it should be) Pikemen were the scorge of the cavalery and pretty much anything else in large numbers, but in M&B polearms are more then weak on the ground and not so usefull on the horseback IMHO (for now anyway). One more thing on combat: I would speed up the animation of the attack by say 20% since as for now it seems almost as you wave at you enemies with you your great axe instead of chopping them :smile:. Its not so bad when you are on foot but looks rather silly from the horseback.

P.S. Once again good work on what you have done so far!
 
I agree that trade needs to be a more important part of the game. But the trade system really needs to be more dynamic for that to work. Right now, trade is just a waste of time. You don't make nearly as much as you do fighting(largly because early game you upgrade alot just from what you find so you don't have to pay for it), it doesn't level your character, its boring and repetative, AND you end up wasting points on skills that are worthless later in the game. Make the trade system much like it is on uncharted waters, and it would rock.
 
As for lances...learn how to make couched lance attacks (get a spirited coursier for easiest result) and then you'll take back everything you said about polearms being weak...
 
DaLagga said:
I agree that trade needs to be a more important part of the game. But the trade system really needs to be more dynamic for that to work. Right now, trade is just a waste of time. You don't make nearly as much as you do fighting(largly because early game you upgrade alot just from what you find so you don't have to pay for it), it doesn't level your character, its boring and repetative, AND you end up wasting points on skills that are worthless later in the game. Make the trade system much like it is on uncharted waters, and it would rock.

All my beer and cigarette money comes exclusively from loot; I don't care what the merchants charge 'cause except for the very early game, money's not a problem. So, the trade system right now is almost strictly for the A.I., if I need dough, I go looking for trouble.

Having too much money doesn't bother me, I'm not looking for a trader sim BUT it could add some more depth to the game. Especially if my idea :smile: of buying some property; raising a family; hiring bodyguards/servants were added. Then we'd have something for a trader character to strive for.
 
:smile:

Buying property does not require any changes to the engine. It's a matter of content addition, and I am sure most mods will come up with different ways of handling that. We'll probably add that to the official game as well, considering the demand for real estate among players. :wink:
 
"I demand water front property! With a nice view of the ocean and a terrace. I'm not even sure what a terrace is, but it sounds pretty fancy. So I want one. That's about it, maybe some ivy...

Give me the ocean front mansion or face the wrath of my 50 Swadian knights!"

Taht has to be osmething you can say to any kindof real estate agent in the game...
 
I said that polearms are waek and I stand by it. Yes you can deal out healthy amounts of damage with lance but lance its just one of polearms and by far not the deadliest. And even the lance is not all that scary due to:
1) It can be easily blocked by any weapn or shield since all you can do it the stab.
2) It can be dodged even more easily
3) Its almost useless on foot
My idea was to give polearms its true power - cavalery killer. This will revitalize the idea of the foot soldier as well as would give a horseman a good challenge. I am a big fan of heavy infantry as it was and still is the backbone of any army in past or present. So I cant help but hope that infantry will be shining in its true glory :smile:

When player gets to much cash he gets lazy and eventually bored - that's always bad for any game. Therefore having a healthy trade system and things to worry about in it makes game more ineresting and attracts more players.
 
A couched lance deals insane amount of damage (highest so far is 230 or so) AND it's completely unblockable...no other weapon ingame deals that kind of damage...
 
It would be really neat if we could duel counts/dukes for their cities. You challenge him and you end up in a ring vs a really high level count/duke in full harness. If you defeat him utterly you get the town without further bloodshed but if its a close call you might have to storm it by force (sieges?).
 
Lances are indeed very powerful already, but I agree that pikes and the like need to be boosted against cavalry. The opposite of a 'couched lance' has been suggested before, where standing still with your pike allows you to set it in the direction of the enemy, and any horsemen that run onto it die. :razz:
 
Dark Art said:
I said that polearms are waek and I stand by it. Yes you can deal out healthy amounts of damage with lance but lance its just one of polearms and by far not the deadliest. And even the lance is not all that scary due to:
1) It can be easily blocked by any weapn or shield since all you can do it the stab.
2) It can be dodged even more easily
3) Its almost useless on foot
My idea was to give polearms its true power - cavalery killer. This will revitalize the idea of the foot soldier as well as would give a horseman a good challenge. I am a big fan of heavy infantry as it was and still is the backbone of any army in past or present. So I cant help but hope that infantry will be shining in its true glory :smile:

When player gets to much cash he gets lazy and eventually bored - that's always bad for any game. Therefore having a healthy trade system and things to worry about in it makes game more ineresting and attracts more players.

It all comes down to what time period we want to simulate. Heavy infantry wan't really a factor until late medieval times. The only real heavy troops there was was the knights and they went to combat on horseback whenever possible. Later though heavy infantry formations came about, like swiss pikemen and halberdiers. They truly where superior to almost anything, but the where quite imobile. The biggest benefit they had though wasn't the pike or halberd. It was their training and dicipline. Unlike they earlier armies of rabble they kept their pikewall formation when charged by cavalry.

Oh and by the way. Don't attack with your lance. Pick up enough speed and your character will automaticly couch the it. Now just make the point hit someone an it will do insane damage and it will be unblockable.
 
The thing is, bewing, that we're already simulating the Medieval period where heavy infantry was becoming a cavalry-beater as we're including plate armour and the like. By 1300 cavalry forces were being beaten by footsoldiers on a regular basis. Kortrijk, Bannockburn (even Crecy), the list goes on.
 
I don't exactly see why polearms on foot are weak...


- you have a longer reach than _everyone_, including a couched lance attack if you time your attack right

- as long as you are able to move as fast or faster than your enemy, you will hardly get hit at all

basically, have high enough agility/light enough armour to be able to run as fast as enemy infantry, and all you need to win a fight is patience...

against a rider, you just stab the horse, then move to one side and deliver a blow to the head

if you have some infantry with you, you can also try some nice bug abuse with polearms...

order your infantry to engange, move behind the enemy and hack/stab away at the backs of their 2nd rank... most of the time, your own infantry will be their closest target and they'll keep mindlessly pushing forward...
 
Mechstra said:
The thing is, bewing, that we're already simulating the Medieval period where heavy infantry was becoming a cavalry-beater as we're including plate armour and the like. By 1300 cavalry forces were being beaten by footsoldiers on a regular basis. Kortrijk, Bannockburn (even Crecy), the list goes on.

Bannockburn and Crecy where typical examples of where the knight failed because they thought themselves to be invulnerable. Bannockburn was a failure because Edward II belived that the scots wouldn't be able to put up much of a fight, and thus allowed the meeting to occur on very poor terrain for cavalry. The initial charges of the english knights where disorganized and without support of archers or infantry and chargin in piecemail they where beaten by the scotish schiltron formations. As the knights routed they spread disorder to the english knight opening for a light cavalry charge against the english archery.

In Crecy the french knights charged recklessly, beliving they coulnd't be defeated by a much smaller, unmounted army. Here again the terrain was unfavourable, forcing the french to charge uphill. The english had also had time to prepare alot of field defences. In the end however it was actually the english knights who did most of the killing, pursuing and utterly routing the remains of the disorganized french force.

Kortrijk I don't know much about. But, even though heavy cavalry could indeed be defeated by infantry in the 14th century it was uncommon if the knights where used correctly. Unfortunatly many of them thought to much of glory and potential riches from capturing many opponents and to little about actual tactics, and charged ahead without support from infantry or archers/crossbows. Heavy cavalry did however remain the dominant attacking force in open field battle up until the end of the 19th century, and during wwI their role where taken over by heavy armor, wich works much the same: Almost unstoppable on the attack in the open, but vulnerable if used without support or in the wrong battlefield roles.

Looking on M&B one most realise that the small group of people you can bring to the field can't really form a pikewall formation, meaning that heavy cavalry really should be dominant. A scattered group of footmen with a mix of various weapons (as your band of merry man in M&B is) would be exactly the kind of enemy a force of heavy cav would be most effective againt.
 
Exactly. Thus heavy cavalery is strongly overpowered. Dont get me wrong, I like it but I think that everything must have something that can beat da shait out of it. Cavalery have advantage of speed and bonus HP(the horse). Ranged units are not TAHT great even against infatry let alone cavalery. Therefore pikewall would provide good and much needed counter for cavalery and give a good point for some1 to be a heavy footman.
 
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