Multiplayer mods can't be made until 2022 unless we find an alternative

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Younes

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What is very funny is that in the "can TW communicate more" thread callum posted this.

Afterwards, they answered a easy questions that were easy to answer without compromising anything, and afterwards when real questions and important stuff came by they just left the thread for good, hilarious.
You made me look back at that thread
From that same thread:
So TW, next month around the same time?

Or

Will they actually communicate like they did today :eek:
Statement still stands, unless TW has something to reply to this? Or will it be another premade classes discussion where there were countless pages of debating it for TW just to say "deal with it"?
 

Aldemar

Knight at Arms
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I really cant believe that it is so hard to atleast put on a plain map from the campaign rise the ammount of Skirmish players to 100 and let us ****ing enjoy the game with our Clans/Regiments. I know, Siege... but its boring and just TDM atm. We need a Battle Server!

All the SP maps are better then that we got in the MP mode. Had to say that.

I also think if Taleworlds still plans to add a ingame shop, then we will not see dedicated privat servers until that got implemented. Mods are free and better. The enemy of every shop in a game.
 

PijeIBije

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I also think if Taleworlds still plans to add a ingame shop, then we will not see dedicated privat servers until that got implemented. Mods are free and better. The enemy of every shop in a game.
This is what worries me very very much. If they decide to milk players wallets after initial purchase in any way, we will never see moddable multiplayer. They will want as much players in the vanilla game as possible. I hope we get some clarification from the devs on this soon.
 

Revverie

Knight at Arms
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This is what worries me very very much. If they decide to milk players wallets after initial purchase in any way, we will never see moddable multiplayer. They will want as much players in the vanilla game as possible. I hope we get some clarification from the devs on this soon.
We won't get any clarification, if they can't answer something so simple such as not being able to turn your camera fast enough (something that remains unaddressed since the beta) then this will be forgotten into dust, that's why I opened another thread to at least show them that **** won't happen
 

ForTheEmporer

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I really cant believe that it is so hard to atleast put on a plain map from the campaign rise the ammount of Skirmish players to 100 and let us ****ing enjoy the game with our Clans/Regiments. I know, Siege... but its boring and just TDM atm. We need a Battle Server!

All the SP maps are better then that we got in the MP mode. Had to say that.

I also think if Taleworlds still plans to add a ingame shop, then we will not see dedicated privat servers until that got implemented. Mods are free and better. The enemy of every shop in a game.
what?? when did they say or plan that?
 

furbzeyyy

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MONEY

Its all about;
- Business Model
- Business Strategy
- Feasibility Study
- Risk (Including contingency risk)
- BCR (Benefit to Cost Ratio)
- Demand
- Quality
- Proposed ideas life cycle (How long its alive and popular, what can be done to keep it going for as long as possible)

INTRO
Custom, monetised servers, free mods, DLCs, these are all extra development opportunities for a base game, where the company developer (this case taleworlds), can accrue more money and profits, help boost the life cycle, and most importantly keep the customer (who are the community) base happy, engaged and coming back




De-centralised Community Driven Servers/Mods

Mods
If Taleworlds choose to leave it to the community, they are decentralising the potential, theoretical workload, and dont have to worry so much about this, apart from their own official, direct DLCs (if any, e.g Napoleonic wars). This, inturn would attract a steady influx of new players, and keep current and existing players constantly coming back, therefore overall increasing the player base and life cycle.
This could work by the server owner both take a cut, and there profit and benefit, and the community is happy also, as they have a wider range of Server types to play from, each offering a different experience (loosely).
community driven servers/mods will make more content, and provide more options, something a centralised (Explained later in article) would never be able to compete with.

Servers
As, for, unofficial and official customised servers, these are a big plus, Taleworlds could enter into agreements, where the server owner and taleworlds both take a cut.


Risk
Acceptable Risk, this would just mean having to monitor what mods are being made and making sure there are no existing copyrights and the likes, which can result in taleworlds being sued and having to payout, meaning company losses, and smaller profit margin. A Strong and sound Steam and EULA agreement would cover this, and there are versions already out there that can give unofficial guidance. There are existing models of this already.




Centralised - Taleworlds driven servers/official mods/dlc

If Taleworlds choose to centralise all creative works and leave none to the community, then they will expect a very heavy burden, finding out whats good, whats not, what will sell, what wont sell, and if they make something that is a bad idea, they, effectively, lose money.


Servers
This goes onto Official Servers, if there are only Official servers, this leads to standardisation across the board, and the only difference is location and connectivity, maybe a few skins and objects, no alternate gameplay, as anything else may cause disruption and ruptures, in any capacity.

Risk
Caution, Acceptable Risk, (Servers wouldnt really anything attractive about them, apart from being MP), this would just mean that they must only develop what is 100% wanted and in demand, and is more or less what the community wants, or it will just not sell, and may impact the games overall reviews, as it becomes an official part of the full game. If they develop a failed feature (What we are all very aware of) all the money invested in the project, will be gone, and into negative, and playerbase takes a drop, and the video game reviews take a hit.
To cover this, this would mean extensive market research, business development, strategy, this furthers the burden of workload on Taleworlds as the centralised developing platform.

(Here taleworlds will be reliant on full game sales and the release of DLCs, (durations between each will play a big factor in sales)




Collective - Community (Third Party) and Taleworlds driven DLCs (Official Mods/Platforms)

(E.g Napoleonic wars)
This is something taleworlds should strongly consider, regardless of custom servers and mods.
The Community want more mods, and if the community can have professional level mods (no modteam will bring a mod to professional level, high quality, polished mod, without there being somekind of arguable financial return, examples are out there), which increase playing hours, playability, then its a win, for both the community, third party and community, the community pay for quality.
What is important to not forget to mention here is free community mods although will be used very much so and be very popular, widely available for free, will be nowhere near as good in quality, as there is no viable feasible reason to spend another year on a nearly complete mod, to polish and add more playtime (E.g missions), if theres no return, just get it out there for the community to enjoy)

(A Financially justified DLC should cover not just skins (microtransaction exploitation), but animations, new playable scenarios, missions, twists on current settings, videography, cutscenes, and much more))

Third Party and Direct Official DLCs have room in both Community driven and/or Taleworlds driven mods and servers, which, will, again, give more reason for players to come back to the game time and time again, even after small stints of not playing, load napoleonic wars to play siege, or vanilla bannerlord for siege, it all works, and all has financial incentive. this would have contracts.

What is also worth mentioning is taleworlds are exploring now, while the game is in its very early stages of its life, giving room for more maneouver, and with a plefora of examples from other areas of gaming for different bodies, which other bodies were not so fortunate to have, which is a big positive for taleworlds and community.

RISK
Manageable Risk




FURBZEYYY
Have the desire to to develop a custom, monetised server and a Third Party DLC, if all goes well.




PLENUM
Even Creativity and the Arts is a Business, but the Creativity and the Arts itself comes FIRST, then morality/legality, then the money and the return.
dont bite the hand that feeds you, the hand being the community.




MY CONCLUSION
- Yes to de-centralised Official Custom, monetised Servers
- Yes to de-centralised Unofficial community 'Steam Workshop' Mods
- Yes to collective Purchaseable Third Party and Official DLC/Platforms
- Yes to de-centralised more linked relationship between Taleworlds and Community (e.g Discord?)
- No to centralised, microtransaction based business model (will tell you now, ive played around 4 games, and havent bought one single skin)

Inevitably, whats available, and what actually gets developed to a final state and is playable on a popular scale, will filter itself down naturally overtime

Plus the video games life cycle will increase exponentially, tenfold, so long the Creative and the Arts aspect is not (within relevant, moral reason), restricted.

(Im not writing out full consultation documents on model, strategy, and feasibility as im not even being paid for this post, nevermind documents)
 
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PijeIBije

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Just aslong we dont get any RNG lootboxes I'm down for most things. Both unlockable through XP and playing and maybe some premium stuff you can buy for real money, as long as you know what you get when you buy it.
This is exactly what we are planning.
Okay, cool, the item shop/grinding in the main game is somewhat confirmed. How about some statement what does that mean for the future of modding multiplayer and custom servers?
 

Callum

Community Manager
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I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but our position on this hasn't changed since the last time this topic was discussed. Unfortunately, server files are a long way away, and won't be coming any time soon. And, with our current system, it isn't as simple as just sharing server files with you and away you go: there is a lot of work that needs doing before they would be ready to share. :sad:
 

Itisausername

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but our position on this hasn't changed since the last time this topic was discussed. Unfortunately, server files are a long way away, and won't be coming any time soon. And, with our current system, it isn't as simple as just sharing server files with you and away you go: there is a lot of work that needs doing before they would be ready to share. :sad:
But does it have something to do with mods apparently making "a better MP" or mabye does it something to do with monetization
 

PijeIBije

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I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but our position on this hasn't changed since the last time this topic was discussed. Unfortunately, server files are a long way away, and won't be coming any time soon. And, with our current system, it isn't as simple as just sharing server files with you and away you go: there is a lot of work that needs doing before they would be ready to share. :sad:
Well, it's good to hear it's still a matter of "when" rather than "if at all". So just to confirm: even if you decide on introducing in game purchases, you won't prohibit modding in order to focus all players on the main game? As a Bannerlord player I will be free to either queue up on skirmish or just waste my time in some PW mod?
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
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I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but our position on this hasn't changed since the last time this topic was discussed. Unfortunately, server files are a long way away, and won't be coming any time soon. And, with our current system, it isn't as simple as just sharing server files with you and away you go: there is a lot of work that needs doing before they would be ready to share. :sad:
Okay, so that means multiplayer mods won't see the daylight for several years still. I understand that us multiplayer modders are a very small group to cater to, but this does mean that multiplayer as a whole will remain very small for a long time still. Even in Warband, which has very acceptable Native multiplayer, the Native MP scene is (and always has been) a lot smaller than the modded MP scene.

Please believe me when I say: the best thing you can do to boost the number of people playing Multiplayer is to focus on dedicated servers first. I, as a software developer myself, understand that this brings extra overhead and maintenance, but please believe me when I say that there are so, so many people who will (re)join multiplayer once we have access to dedicated servers, even if the rest of MP is not finished.


I have two further questions:
  1. Could you please explain the reasoning behind waiting with dedicated servers until after the rest of MP is done? I can think of a few reasons myself, but I would like to understand TW's reasoning too.
  2. Since you've mentioned a few weeks ago that you're aiming fully release the game in March 2021, can we expect to have access to dedicated servers with the 1.0 release?
 

Neyzen Tevfik

Squire
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I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but our position on this hasn't changed since the last time this topic was discussed. Unfortunately, server files are a long way away, and won't be coming any time soon. And, with our current system, it isn't as simple as just sharing server files with you and away you go: there is a lot of work that needs doing before they would be ready to share. :sad:
Because of what? maybe (from what i understand, could be wrong) it is because of server files opens another master server, like we have in beta 1.5.5 or what have modders done in the past? so Your progression (levels, badges, bought sikke/skins) don't carry over to new server (like beta 1.5.5 servers or misteroutoftimes server). so your skin selling system will not work in mods if you share it? If it is not like this, why did Taleworlds silenced modders ability to host dedicated servers ? What was the reason for the rush to silence it? if Taleworlds first agenda is not Monetization?

Frankly, micro-transactions is the last thing in our mind, since we still have the huge task of creating a successful and fun multiplayer game experience.
Just aslong we dont get any RNG lootboxes I'm down for most things. Both unlockable through XP and playing and maybe some premium stuff you can buy for real money, as long as you know what you get when you buy it.
This is exactly what we are planning.
Which statement is true? What is happened since beta? did we get successfull multiplayer or we got the infrastructure and reasoning for the skins?
 

Callum

Community Manager
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But does it have something to do with mods apparently making "a better MP" or mabye does it something to do with monetization
Considering that a hugely successful DLC from our previous game was born as a multiplayer mod, I'm not even sure this notion makes much sense tbh. I mean, I don't think it would be possible for Bannerlord skins to make a fraction of the money NW did, so from business POV, it wouldn't make too much sense IMO.

Which statement is true? What is happened since beta? did we get successfull multiplayer or we got the infrastructure and reasoning for the skins?
We don't have any plans to sell skins right now. It is far too soon to even be thinking about that discussion considering how much work MP has left to do on it.
 

Itisausername

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Considering that a hugely successful DLC from our previous game was born as a multiplayer mod, I'm not even sure this notion makes much sense tbh. I mean, I don't think it would be possible for Bannerlord skins to make a fraction of the money NW did, so from business POV, it wouldn't make too much sense IMO.
Well that's the answer I needed so thank god that isn't the reason but is there actually any other reason that private servers which would come in with MP mods aren't being released other then it's hard and takes a while
 

Callum

Community Manager
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The multiplayer server system, much like the game, is still in development. I understand the arguments put forward for sharing the files ASAP, in particular for modders, but there is still work to be done on them.