Multiplayer Game Modes - Updated Info and Discussion

[Callum]

I'm really happy that we're finally given info on how the Bannerlord multiplayer will look like, but I have a question. The majority of the people that play multiplayer in warband do not play competitive. The the most fun I've had with warband multiplayer, was taking some crazy build (naked with a great long axe or 20 javelins) and back door a castle or go wild on TDM.

To what degree will I still be able to do so in Bannerlord? The customization options to me is one of the biggest reasons that I'm still playing Warband. You have developed a fantastic customization system for single player and it would be amazing if it could also be used for the more casual game modes.

We don't want two different systems for weapon/item loadouts across our game modes because we think it will become confusing for players and harder for us to balance. We have decided to go with preset classes and perks. There will be other game modes (TDM etc.) available for people to host on their own servers or as a custom game and we plan to give people as many server options as possible to customise the game to their liking.

The thing I dont understand though is that these changes are clearly inspired by overwatch, but the game modes in that game encourage 6v6 team fights. It seems like by having 3 flags, Taleworlds is actively trying to prevent the 6v6 teamfight. I don't really understand why though, clearly Taleworlds problem with battle is that there are periods in which teamfights arent happening, so shouldn't the goal of any mode to be to create as many clean 6v6 teamfights as possible? Wouldn't this be better off done with some form of assault/defense game mode?

3 flags seems to be an incredibly clumsy way of fixing the issue of teamfights not happening often or quick enough.

I realise you might think that assault/defense game modes are hard to balance, but you have to look for balance in asymmetry. That is both teams should take turns attacking/defending.

Personally I'd prefer battle any day over assault/defense game modes, but assault would be better than weird 3 flag gameplay.

Bannerlord gives us a chance to try some new things which we have never done before. We have a talented team of individuals here who know a thing or two about computer games and we think that a lot of the changes we have made are taking the game in the right direction. I would actually say that our Skirmish mode isn't actually like any of Overwatch's game modes at all and that game wasn't mentioned during the design meetings for the game mode.

We think our new game modes actually do encourage team fights, and that is certainly the way it plays out in the office, but until real teams get a hold of it we won't actually know for certain.

 

[MaHuD]

These perks are unlocks, right?

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Okay Callum but from what you say I understand that perk system evolved greatly since 6 months before.
Because what we saw in Cpt mode in Gamescom can be nowhere near an alternative to the previous system.

You either choose ''a better sword'' or a ''halberd'' thats it.
Also a skill choice.

I mean the skill choice is a good idea if TW manages to nail it but only one change for the equipment and even that being preset(you can upgrade your sword only to a specific type of sword) and even that might not exist. You may want to upgrade your sword but the game can say better bards, better shield, better lance.
Because if I remmeber it right there were only 3 options.

 

[Duh]

Absolutely not. I can easily code an interface that has a "class" of Vaegir Archer and lists all the equipment choices in a similar fashion to now with the cheap stuff as the basic "presets" and call everything else Perks.

Do you honestly think that'll be more handy than just having an equipment selector? Do you really think you can nail down every loadout people might come up with? I strongly doubt it.

I am saying that a Class+Perk System can be pretty much the same as an equipment selector. It all comes down to how they implement it. There could even be more choices in Bannerlord than in Warband - though, I doubt that cause of accessibility. But what is lost in competitive match-making will be the dead weight, crazy combinations for the lulz... not the meaningful, viable, balanced archetypes. At least not if TW does a good job.

This is the only applicable argument here and I don't think that the majority of players will be upset about not being able to **** about with suboptimal builds in competitive matchmaking. Especially because the lack of suboptimal builds does not necessitate a lack of interesting builds.
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12 new replies have been posted. Well den.

Dude, ever played on a siege server? I'd say smart builds are damn near in the minority there, and it's probably not even due to player incompetence. The ugly old naked man with the greatsword is an icon of Warband. The ability to be ruthlessly silly is at the very core of what makes casual Warband MP what it is. Abandoning that in the name of "balance" and "streamlining" (and, sorry for the language, "Accessibility") to me is a huge mistake.

I never played there (or anywhere else) competively, no. The non-matchmaking servers may have the ability to offer more "free and fun" choices and that would be a good argument to push, I think.

 

[Callum]

These perks are unlocks, right?

You have access to all of the perks of a class when you pick that class.

 

[Brandis.]

I realise you might think that assault/defense game modes are hard to balance, but you have to look for balance in asymmetry. That is both teams should take turns attacking/defending.

I'd love to see this as a game mode for comp. It follows closely to the spirit of a medieval game like M&B.

I don't know how a 6v6 mini-siege would compare when people are used to larger scale ones, though. Presumably, the defenders have the advantage in poke and then have different ways to set up crossfires when the attacks want to contest the point. Maps could be designed so that attackers have multiple flank routes meaning an adaptive defense would be best. 

Overwatch

As someone who has 800+ hours in Overwatch and 3500+ in Warband, I don't know why people keep bringing up OW. There's more similarity between comp CS:GO if you were to look at major eSport titles.

(Some KOTH maps actually might be cool if repeated in M&B, though.)

 

[Duh]

Depends a lot on what customization options are available to a private server owner and whether or not unlocking "crazy" equipment options would require a modification of the game files or not. (I.e. do you need to download a mod or not.)

It was said somewhere server settings don't allow you to create new perks without a mod.

However, with a server side mod that might be possible without a download.

That and there may be server options that allow you to change the ruleset for existing classes + perks. Or there may be silly, funny classes and perks that can be unlocked. If TW really doesn't have anything to do

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Depends a lot on what customization options are available to a private server owner and whether or not unlocking "crazy" equipment options would require a modification of the game files or not. (I.e. do you need to download a mod or not.)

It was said somewhere server settings don't allow you to create new perks without a mod.

However, with a server side mod that might be possible without a download.

That and there may be server options that allow you to change the ruleset for existing classes + perks. Or there may be silly, funny classes and perks that can be unlocked. If TW really doesn't have anything to do

They should also add some of the perks as microtransactions since they want to cover the quality of the rest of the product.

 

[Scarf Ace]

We don't want two different systems for weapon/item loadouts across our game modes because we think it will become confusing for players and harder for us to balance. We have decided to go with preset classes and perks. There will be other game modes (TDM etc.) available for people to host on their own servers or as a custom game and we plan to give people as many server options as possible to customise the game to their liking.

Don't baby your audience. This sort of reasoning insults people's intelligence and drives them away. It's absolutely ridiculous to think new players can't deal with two systems across different game modes, there are plenty of games out there that do much more than just that.
Non-competitive modes don't need perfect balance anyway. They aren't meant to be serious. It can have flaws, Native MP isn't balanced either, nobody cares outside of competitive.

That and there may be server options that allow you to change the ruleset for existing classes + perks. Or there may be silly, funny classes and perks that can be unlocked. If TW really doesn't have anything to do

Silly classes and perks are still presets. It's obviously not the same and it's obviously still putting pointless limits on choice. You can't shoehorn the possibilities of the Warband system into one that is clearly not designed for that.

 

[Styo]

The customization options to me is one of the biggest reasons that I'm still playing Warband.

This post says it all.

This is exactly why we are going with preset classes, to give us greater control over what each unit type will have access to while ensuring that players always have a basic level of equipment. What you are asking for with your idea of a money system is no different than the perk system we have now. Furthermore we will have Deathmatch and some type of Battle / single life game mode, they just won't be hosted by us as MM servers.

Bannerlord is dying before it got released. If Battle mode is not included in MM, then there is no point for MP. Simple as that. Battle mode is the only mode that would apply to MM.

 

[Callum]

They should also add some of the perks as microtransactions...

No. Just, no. 

 

[Varrak]

This is exactly why we are going with preset classes, to give us greater control over what each unit type will have access to while ensuring that players always have a basic level of equipment. What you are asking for with your idea of a money system is no different than the perk system we have now. Furthermore we will have Deathmatch and some type of Battle / single life game mode, they just won't be hosted by us as MM servers.

Bannerlord is dying before it got released. If Battle mode is not included in MM, then there is no point for MP. Simple as that. Battle mode is the only mode that would apply to MM.

We don't have MM in warband neither.

 

[lolbash]

Overwatch

As someone who has 800+ hours in Overwatch and 3500+ in Warband, I don't know why people keep bringing up OW. There's more similarity between comp CS:GO if you were to look at major eSport titles.

Probably because of the wording on Callums post he is implying that there will be specific counters that one class can have that other classes cannot. Similiar to how early Bastion will almost always lose to a Genji, There is a hint that some bullcrap system like this exists where light two handers always beat heavy infantry, etc

This is however entirely speculation and this would be fixed if taleworlds releases a beta or a video of skirmish mode gameplay so we can actually get exact info.

 

[? M]

We think our new game modes actually do encourage team fights, and that is certainly the way it plays out in the office, but until real teams get a hold of it we won't actually know for certain.

I think you're right that real teams will need to get hold of it, this is how it plays out in the office

Maybe get an intern to port the mode to warband, we can playtest it and write essays about its competitive viability. If it's bad we can help you iron out whatever failings in market research have been made, if it's good it'd be a long overdue bone tossed to the competitive community which can be chewed on until Bannerlord

As Scarf Ace said, it seems like neither the competitive scene or the large scale "line battle" people are going to enjoy this. Not sure who this mode is aimed at.

 

[Gibby Jr]

We are also fans of the idea of an asymmetrical single life game mode.

Hope something comes of this.

 

[Ki-Ok Khan]

We don't want two different systems for weapon/item loadouts across our game modes because we think it will become confusing for players and harder for us to balance. We have decided to go with preset classes and perks. There will be other game modes (TDM etc.) available for people to host on their own servers or as a custom game and we plan to give people as many server options as possible to customise the game to their liking.

Don't baby your audience. This sort of reasoning insults people's intelligence and drives them away. It's absolutely ridiculous to think new players can't deal with two systems across different game modes, there are plenty of games out there that do much more than just that.
Non-competitive modes don't need perfect balance anyway. They aren't meant to be serious. It can have flaws, Native MP isn't balanced either, nobody cares outside of competitive.

Before you know you will lose a lot of new players because they cant figure out what to choose as their gear. There are still people out there that are new to the game and run around with absolute trash items playing 0-18. On top of that snowballing is a very bad affect on the new players. It becomes unplayable for them. Taleworlds should at least provide some sort of preset equipment for them.

 

[Duh]

This is exactly why we are going with preset classes, to give us greater control over what each unit type will have access to while ensuring that players always have a basic level of equipment. What you are asking for with your idea of a money system is no different than the perk system we have now. Furthermore we will have Deathmatch and some type of Battle / single life game mode, they just won't be hosted by us as MM servers.

Bannerlord is dying before it got released. If Battle mode is not included in MM, then there is no point for MP. Simple as that. Battle mode is the only mode that would apply to MM.

That is such an utterly silly notion. Non-MM Battle will do fine, just like it did in WB. And especiallly if the other modes fail to deliver as some people are convinced.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

They should also add some of the perks as microtransactions...

No. Just, no.

I was joking lol but still Callum what is TW's response to this post of mine ?
Because if TW/you can explain and help me with this worry of mine I will be totally fine.

隐藏

Okay Callum but from what you say I understand that perk system evolved greatly since 6 months before.
Because what we saw in Cpt mode in Gamescom can be nowhere near an alternative to the previous system.

You either choose ''a better sword'' or a ''halberd'' thats it.
Also a skill choice.

I mean the skill choice is a good idea if TW manages to nail it but only one change for the equipment and even that being preset(you can upgrade your sword only to a specific type of sword) and even that might not exist. You may want to upgrade your sword but the game can say better bards, better shield, better lance.
Because if I remmeber it right there were only 3 options.

 

[Scarf Ace]

Before you know you will lose a lot of new players because they cant figure out what to choose as their gear. There are still people out there that are new to the game and run around with absolute trash items playing 0-18. On top of that snowballing is a very bad affect on the new players. It becomes unplayable for them. Taleworlds should at least provide some sort of preset equipment for them.

Have you seen how those people play? It's not their gear that's doing it. The difference in gear power in Warband is low enough that in casual play, using the worst gear in the game isn't that huge a deal against most players.

But yeah, nothing wrong with providing some recommendations or presets (most CS games have that too), but eliminating choice for those who can do without in casual play is totally preposterous.

 

[Callum]

I was joking lol but still Callum what is TW's response to this post of mine ?
Because if TW/you can explain and help me with this worry of mine I will be totally fine.

隐藏

Okay Callum but from what you say I understand that perk system evolved greatly since 6 months before.
Because what we saw in Cpt mode in Gamescom can be nowhere near an alternative to the previous system.

You either choose ''a better sword'' or a ''halberd'' thats it.
Also a skill choice.

I mean the skill choice is a good idea if TW manages to nail it but only one change for the equipment and even that being preset(you can upgrade your sword only to a specific type of sword) and even that might not exist. You may want to upgrade your sword but the game can say better bards, better shield, better lance.
Because if I remmeber it right there were only 3 options.

What you saw in our Gamescom build was still very much a work in progress. You shouldn't look to that as an indicator of how extensive the final version of the perk system will be.