Multiplayer Game Modes - Updated Info and Discussion

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Callum

Community Lead
Most of you saw the PM I sent saying that there will be no Battle mode in the same way as it was in Warband. While this is in part true, it appears to be completely misleading, so please allow me to clarify the situation.

There will be no single-life game mode in matchmaking, but there will be one for custom games (among other game modes, such as Team Deathmatch). The final design for this game mode isn't set in stone yet so you shouldn't expect to see a Battle mode which is identical to the one we have in Warband. Naturally, we will take community input on these matters into account as we strive to create an experience that is enjoyable for our fans. We also have an extensive list of server settings, so you should be able to customise any of our game modes to suit your needs (playercount, gold amounts etc.). If any of the custom modes turn out to be the game mode that clans want to use in tournaments or which our event organisers want to use for events (such as line battles), then we will work to support them with that when the time comes.

The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this). I will also note that there still are a significant range of options across the classes and perks – which may be expanded upon based on community feedback and testing results.

We want to make it clear that our aim is not to alienate our existing playerbase through our efforts to attract new players to the game. We will always listen to your feedback and try to work with you to create a game which you will enjoy playing for years to come. But, with that being said, we also have our own thoughts and ideas that we would like to put out there and we are confident that game modes like Skirmish will be well received if you are willing to give them a chance.
 

lolbash

Master Knight
WBNWVCWF&S
The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this).

Im actually dissapointed in you Taleworlds. Not you Callum, you’re a PR guy. Im talking to Taleworlds. I already posted my opinion about this issue. Read here:

Im assuming that Taleworlds is trying to copy Overwatch so that they can attract newer audiences with an easy to understand class system so anyone can pick it up and be like

“oooh so Light Cavalry counters Archers, light 2 handers with throwing weapons counter Horse archers, Heavy infantry counters Light infantry, Lancers counter Heavy Infantry, etc etc”

Please reconsider this. I long to play a Mount and blade game. Not a medieval Overwatch. Rhade already goes indepth in this thread https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375172.0.html

Reconsider this, please.



 

Silen

Duke
I'm fine with all of this, I quite like the idea of different perks for classes and the limited lives based on those choises, adding some strategic value and balance. Of course these thoughts are merely based on a concept and as I have said before we will find out for certain if we like these changes or not once we can try them for ourselves.

Certainly, though, there will be disagreement within the playerbase, as I doubt that those who didn't like these ideas before will change their minds now. Nonetheless I hope everyone will find enough patience and good will to wait to play the game and give these new differences a chance.
 

Callum

Community Lead
lolbash said:
The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this).

Im actually dissapointed in you Taleworlds. Not you Callum, you’re a PR guy. Im talking to Taleworlds. I already posted my opinion about this issue. Read here:

Im assuming that Taleworlds is trying to copy Overwatch so that they can attract newer audiences with an easy to understand class system so anyone can pick it up and be like

“oooh so Light Cavalry counters Archers, light 2 handers with throwing weapons counter Horse archers, Heavy infantry counters Light infantry, Lancers counter Heavy Infantry, etc etc”

Please reconsider this. I long to play a Mount and blade game. Not a medieval Overwatch. Rhade already goes indepth in this thread https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375172.0.html

Reconsider this, please.

The classes and perks are actually quite similar to what we already have in Warband, they just work a little differently that's all. You pick a class which gets access to a selection of perks. These perks give you access to different weapons and armour (while forcing you to make a trade-off). This means that yes, you won't be able to run around with 3 shields, but, you will always have access to a minimum standard of gear and be competitive in each round you play.
 

PepperKP

Baron
M&BWF&SWBNWVC
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this). I will also note that there still are a significant range of options across the classes and perks – which may be expanded upon based on community feedback and testing results.

I don't really care much about the 'battle mode situation', but this does worry me as although this does seem a bit different I never really liked the NW system. Any chance this could be elaborated more on a dev blog or something in the future before release? I think the freedom of gear choice is one of the strengths of MP and it'd be a shame if everyone started looking the same.
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
lolbash said:
The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this).

Im actually dissapointed in you Taleworlds. Not you Callum, you’re a PR guy. Im talking to Taleworlds. I already posted my opinion about this issue. Read here:

Im assuming that Taleworlds is trying to copy Overwatch so that they can attract newer audiences with an easy to understand class system so anyone can pick it up and be like

“oooh so Light Cavalry counters Archers, light 2 handers with throwing weapons counter Horse archers, Heavy infantry counters Light infantry, Lancers counter Heavy Infantry, etc etc”

Please reconsider this. I long to play a Mount and blade game. Not a medieval Overwatch. Rhade already goes indepth in this thread https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375172.0.html

Reconsider this, please.
I have said this elsewhere, but I will repeat it as I believe it to be true and relevant - IF the range of available classes and perks is extensive and meaningful, the new system represents a relatively small change for experienced and competitive players. The current Warband system still boils down to a list of presets (there is a limited number of predetermined equipment choices and combinations) - Bannerlord would simply guide new players to viable archetypes. Especially if classes and perks will be fine-tuned and expanded with player feedback taken into account, there is little to no loss for Veterans as it only means that the Archetypes (combinations of items) that they enjoy and are viable and balanced will be built into the UI while dead weight is reduced.
 

Firunien

#Feedrunien
Grandmaster Knight
Why is there no one life game mode in matchmaking ? I mean thats why battle become popular in the first place. And if you look at current trends, like PUBG and Fortnite, it seems that exactly that thrill is pulling loads of players. I dont understand why Taleworlds is doing it that way, i really dont. Nothing against an accessable gamemode, but it seems like  not having a punishing system by not including such a gamemode. From personal experience the casual Player appeal of Overwatch killed it for most people of competitive mindset. Thanks for communicating with us though :wink:
 

Callum

Community Lead
Firunien said:
Why is there no one life game mode in matchmaking ? I mean thats why battle become popular in the first place. And if you look at current trends, like PUBG and Fortnite, it seems that exactly that thrill is pulling loads of players. I dont understand why Taleworlds is doing it that way, i really dont. Nothing against an accessable gamemode, but it seems like watering down a punishing system by not including such a gamemode. Thanks for communicating with us though :wink:

The additional one or two lives which you get in Skirmish mode actually add a great deal to the potential strategies that a team can use during a single round while still keeping the game fast paced and intense. I have 1k hours in native multiplayer battle mode and I played it pretty much exclusively during my time playing Warband. I know the excitement and thrill of only having one life and how it changes your playstyle and the way you approach the game. I am also well aware of the fact that waiting for a flag spawn, being of a lower skill level than your opponent, making one simple mistake, or even a bit of bad luck can mean an extended period of sitting around doing nothing and not actually playing the game, which to be honest, isn't much fun. Our new game modes go a long way in addressing these issues while still pushing the skill-based combat element of the game to the forefront.

We have decided to limit how many modes we have in matchmaking to prevent splitting the playerbase up too much. We think that our current lineup of game modes for MM will offer something for everyone.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Marquis
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
How significant are the perks?, does it give an armour stat increase or does it give an entirely new armour set?. The best part about Warband is the fast that with the 1K build you're able to still put up a fight against someone with an armour upgrade. If I were a Swadian infantry and I won the first round and I upgraded the torso armour, I'll still quite easily die to the opponent as it gives a benefit but still have a weak helmet and boots. In competitive, the community has found a way to balance gold gained and armour equipment. It's extremely hard to get the best (almost unbeatable) armour in a normal scrim and if you manage then It's a result of the player's skill by getting lots of kills. If the perk is to buy a new armour set or increase the overall armour then I feel that could be extremely OP (unless you increase it by armour piece). You've got this perk and then as an added bonus you've got this new 'morale' system which buffs your stats a second time?, seems absurd.

There's many different combinations of Warband which results in players being unique, taking what they think is best for themselves, these pre-defined troops seem extremely linear and boring. I also don't understand how you're able to keep the balance considering that other factions would have a stronger line-up than others. Some factions will have unique but useless classes in battle and if they're weaker as a troop, then there's no significant upgrade to give that troop the edge over other troops. In native you've got Nords who're OP as infantry with standard 1k armour, other factions have a chance with particular upgrades and drops. Watching people fight each other with the same bland troop classes and slow animations would look like I'm playing war of the roses, not fun to watch or play. The Skirmish mode seems like a unique idea and I respect that and I'm sure the community will try it, however, it's more about the mechanics of the game that's really putting people off.

EDIT: Do you edit perks after your team dies? after the player dies? or anytime?
 

Sundeki

Master Knight
M&BWB
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
There will be no single-life game mode in matchmaking, but there will be one for custom games (among other game modes, such as Team Deathmatch). The final design for this game mode isn't set in stone yet so you shouldn't expect to see a Battle mode which is identical to the one we have in Warband. Naturally, we will take community input on these matters into account as we strive to create an experience that is enjoyable for our fans. We also have an extensive list of server settings, so you should be able to customise any of our game modes to suit your needs (playercount, gold amounts etc.). If any of the custom modes turn out to be the game mode that clans want to use in tournaments or which our event organisers want to use for events (such as line battles), then we will work to support them with that when the time comes.

Ok, good. Problem solved. I'd like to see competitive Battle, but I'll hold out judgement on whether or not Skirmish will suffice until I can actually play the game. Still hung up on the multiple lives per round thing though.

Callum_TaleWorlds said:
The item system from Warband has now been changed to a class-based system, with a perk list to customise your character (such as access to different weapons or better armour). This is the system we will be using across all of our multiplayer game modes. The reasons for this change are: to help with the general balance of the game (between units and teams); to prevent snowballing; to make multiplayer accessible to a wider ranger of players; and to provide a system where players can know what to expect when playing as or against each different type of unit (and develop strategies and tactics based on this). I will also note that there still are a significant range of options across the classes and perks – which may be expanded upon based on community feedback and testing results.

All the popular multiplayer mods (as of a few years ago, I haven't touched any of the new ones) seemed to focus on an expansion of the item pool and gameplay customization. While I will once again hold out final judgement until I can play it, I don't see how doing the opposite will manage to make the game more enjoyable, from a non-matchmaking experience. The lack of balance in Warband was mostly superficial between factions, with the better players being almost all of the difference in who won and lost, with a little bit of luck thrown in. A slightly better team would beat an opposing slightly worse team with a better faction pretty much all of the time. While I commend your attempt to balance things out, all that might occur is bottlenecking the game and it's flexible gameplay options (especially in pubs and casual play) into linear one-path-to-victory scenarios.  Short of creating dozens of effective subclasses per unit type I don't see how this can be replicated. While probably a good idea for limiting the number of imbalance factors for your matchmaking system, as well as reducing the immediate complexity of the game to newcomers, other areas of the game might suffer. And by might I mean almost definitely.
 

Callum

Community Lead
Fietta said:
How significant are the perks?, does it give an armour stat increase or does it give an entirely new armour set?. The best part about Warband is the fast that with the 1K build you're able to still put up a fight against someone with an armour upgrade. If I were a Swadian infantry and I won the first round and I upgraded the torso armour, I'll still quite easily die to the opponent as it gives a benefit but still have a weak helmet and boots. In competitive, the community has found a way to balance gold gained and armour equipment. It's extremely hard to get the best (almost unbeatable) armour in a normal scrim and if you manage then It's a result of the player's skill by getting lots of kills. If the perk is to buy a new armour set or increase the overall armour then I feel that could be extremely OP (unless you increase it by armour piece). You've got this perk and then as an added bonus you've got this new 'morale' system which buffs your stats a second time?, seems absurd.

There's many different combinations of Warband which results in players being unique, taking what they think is best for themselves, these pre-defined troops seem extremely linear and boring. I also don't understand how you're able to keep the balance considering that other factions would have a stronger line-up than others. Some factions will have unique but useless classes in battle and if they're weaker as a troop, then there's no significant upgrade to give that troop the edge over other troops. In native you've got Nords who're OP as infantry with standard 1k armour, other factions have a chance with particular upgrades and drops. Watching people fight each other with the same bland troop classes and slow animations would look like I'm playing war of the roses, not fun to watch or play.

EDIT: Do you edit perks after your team dies? after the player dies? or anytime?

The morale system has absolutely nothing to do with stats. It is a mechanic which forces team to be active on the map. There are 3 flags on the map, if you control more of them than the enemy team then their team morale will start to decrease. When the morale is fully depleted that team loses. This can swing back and forth throughout a round. Two of the flags are removed after a certain amount of time leaving just one flag to focus all of the action. The system will always try to take one flag off each team as its priority, after that it will always try to leave a flag which is being contested as the final flag.

The perks offer access to different weapons and armour. So you could be using a heavy inf and decide you want to take an axe instead of a sword, or keep your basic sword and opt for better armour instead. All of these things we try to keep in a balanced range so that all loadouts and choices remain competitive at all times. Better players don't need to be rewarded with better gear like they are in Warband (thus creating a snowball effect), their reward for being better is winning rounds. You select perks on the unit selection screen (as you spawn).
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Marquis
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
Fietta said:
How significant are the perks?, does it give an armour stat increase or does it give an entirely new armour set?. The best part about Warband is the fast that with the 1K build you're able to still put up a fight against someone with an armour upgrade. If I were a Swadian infantry and I won the first round and I upgraded the torso armour, I'll still quite easily die to the opponent as it gives a benefit but still have a weak helmet and boots. In competitive, the community has found a way to balance gold gained and armour equipment. It's extremely hard to get the best (almost unbeatable) armour in a normal scrim and if you manage then It's a result of the player's skill by getting lots of kills. If the perk is to buy a new armour set or increase the overall armour then I feel that could be extremely OP (unless you increase it by armour piece). You've got this perk and then as an added bonus you've got this new 'morale' system which buffs your stats a second time?, seems absurd.

There's many different combinations of Warband which results in players being unique, taking what they think is best for themselves, these pre-defined troops seem extremely linear and boring. I also don't understand how you're able to keep the balance considering that other factions would have a stronger line-up than others. Some factions will have unique but useless classes in battle and if they're weaker as a troop, then there's no significant upgrade to give that troop the edge over other troops. In native you've got Nords who're OP as infantry with standard 1k armour, other factions have a chance with particular upgrades and drops. Watching people fight each other with the same bland troop classes and slow animations would look like I'm playing war of the roses, not fun to watch or play.

EDIT: Do you edit perks after your team dies? after the player dies? or anytime?

The morale system has absolutely nothing to do with stats. It is a mechanic which forces team to be active on the map. There are 3 flags on the map, if you control more of them than the enemy team then their team morale will start to decrease. When the morale is fully depleted that team loses. This can swing back and forth throughout a round. Two of the flags are removed after a certain amount of time leaving just one flag to focus all of the action. The system will always try to take one flag off each team as its priority, after that it will always try to leave a flag which is being contested as the final flag.

The perks offer access to different weapons and armour. So you could be using a heavy inf and decide you want to take an axe instead of a sword, or keep your basic sword and opt for better armour instead. All of these things we try to keep in a balanced range so that all loadouts and choices remain competitive at all times. Better players don't need to be rewarded with better gear like they are in Warband (thus creating a snowball effect), their reward for being better is winning rounds. You select perks on the unit selection screen (as you spawn).

Interesting, so the morale system is basically just flag points? On other games, players would raise the flags to gain points, once they've hit a certain number of points, they win. Bannerlord, you raise the flags and the other team's morale lowers and if it's depleted, they lose?, does raising a flag increase morale or does it ALWAYS deplete?
 

Ki-Ok Khan

Will you be able to record one or two rounds of skirmish battle 6v6 with little bit of tactic and team-play involved during one of your test sessions? To make this clear, perhaps?
Is it similar to captain mode but just no bots and more players on each side?

Also when you set the final numbers for max capacity of a server , can you let us know?

Fietta said:
Interesting, so the morale system is basically just flag points? On other games, players would raise the flags to gain points, once they've hit a certain number of points, they win. Bannerlord, you raise the flags and the other team's morale lowers and if it's depleted, they lose?, does raising a flag increase morale or does it ALWAYS deplete?
It decreases if the enemy team has most of the flags.
 

Callum

Community Lead
Fietta said:
Interesting, so the morale system is basically just flag points? On other games, players would raise the flags to gain points, once they've hit a certain number of points, they win. Bannerlord, you raise the flags and the other team's morale lowers and if it's depleted, they lose?, does raising a flag increase morale or does it ALWAYS deplete?

The morale can swing back and forth: there is a set amount of morale between both teams and you either hold more flags to get more of this set amount (decreasing the other teams morale) or you hold less and your morale decreases. If neither team captures a flag then the morale doesn't shift at all.
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
Thanks for the clarification.

I think clans/teams will find the best conditions and settings for scrims/pugs/tournaments over time on private servers in the 6v6/8v8 format. Public matchmaking can be completely different from them and be enjoyable. But as with any game, the best way to play will be on a coordinated team against a coordinated team in a private lobby.


lolbash said:
Overwatch

Adding 'classes' doesn't make this MnB anything like Overwatch. The combat system is extremely different. Your main point seems to be that one class counters the other, which isn't true in MnB or Overwatch at a remotely high level.
 

K.A.

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Does it mean that we only have access to weapons and armors of the class we choose ? I mean if i want to be heavy inf but use the weapons of light inf, i can't ?
 

yedrellow

Sergeant at Arms
Callum_TaleWorlds said:
We have decided to limit how many modes we have in matchmaking to prevent splitting the playerbase up too much. We think that our current lineup of game modes for MM will offer something for everyone.

Is there any plan to have matchmaking available in Australia?
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
K.A. said:
Does it mean that we only have access to weapons and armors of the class we choose ? I mean if i want to be heavy inf but use the weapons of light inf, i can't ?
Yes and No. You won't be able to pick the equipment of other classes (unless they happen to share some pieces, I guess), but Callum has stated in the Dev Blog iirc that you can switch items with teammates (that have picked another class).

Edith: Can't seem to find the post anymore, so take this with a big grain of salt until he confirms :razz:
 

Apollo ?

Count
WB
Battle is the only thing that kept this game alive all of this time, what other game-modes apart from Siege or DM are actually populated on native so well. Just look at Conquest a very 'good' new gamemode you guys try to add and it got played for like 2 days then everyone got bored.

Battle has been proven to be the best and the most favoured game-mode over the others, you should not just remove it out-right and replace it because you feel it isnt so good. We get you want to get new people, but we the 'old' people still want what we know and love about this game. Without having to actually mod it in ourselves, that just shows you don't have the time or resources to dedicate to one single game mode which has basically been the backbone of warband for years.

Edit: Would you consider trying Battle out? seeing how it works for bannerlord, you don't really need to add it if you don't want I guess. But get peoples opinions or whatever before you scrap it :wink:
 

Varrak

Baron
WBWF&SNW
Will we be able to pick-up shield/sword from the ground in multiplayer? For example we picked one "defensive perk" and traded off it with getting weaker weapon. Then, one of our friend (or enemy) has been killed, his/her weapon falls on the ground. Are we able to pick it up and use? If so, most people will go defensive perks since they will think that they will get stronger weapon from battlefield anyway, and offensive perks won't have any real meaning..
 
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