Multiplayer Feedback from the Competitive Community.

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Úlfheðinn

Section Moderator
WB
My thoughts in terms of balance:
-Cavalry needs nerfed in some way.

As someone who pretty much only played infantry in Warband, I can confidently say I've never had as easy of a time as I do right now at absolutely demolishing entire teams as cavalry.

-Archers are way too easy to use

Given a lot of the game dev choices and buginess of the game, it's hard for me to judge if archers are too strong, but they definitely feel very easy/amazing to use. Similarly to cavalry, if I just want to reap kills right now, I just go archer and it feels very low effort to get some ridiculous K-D and/or win rate. Just jumping into MP and not testing anything in SP, it felt almost trivial to headshot people now.

With how great archers and cavalry are, there really doesn't feel like there are any reasons to go pure infantry.
 
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Given a lot of the game dev choices and buginess of the game, it's hard for me to judge if archers are too strong, but they definitely feel very easy/amazing to use. Similarly to cavalry, if I just want to reap kills right now, I just go archer and it feels very low effort to get some ridiculous K-D and/or win rate. Just jumping into MP and not testing anything in SP, it felt almost trivial to headshot people now.

With how great archers and cavalry are, there really doesn't feel like there are any reasons to go pure infantry.
speaking as a pure archer player i agree with you mostly, the only exception is in captain mode when fighting agains sturgians, those infantry shields block almost all shots, while i usually get 10-25 kills a round with archers against sturgians i have a hard time trying to get even 5 kills against infantry. the only exception is when my team forces them to turn their shields the other way by attacking them in the flanks.

as sturgian in captain mode there is every reason to go pure infantry
 

Sundeki

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
My thoughts in terms of balance:
-Cavalry needs nerfed in some way. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that hitboxes for them are off, how can it be I aim at the riders head(I'm on horseback) and my lance hits his horses legs according to my damage report in the chat box? Would also explain why spears literally never seem to stop horses.
They seem to be off for everything, even for the cavalry player. I main cavalry in Warband, so I'm not completely incompetent, and yet in Bannerlord I can't intentionally knock someone down as cavalry almost ever. My horse just does that weird "Hey you, just move yourself back 20 cm so I can get past, thanks" thing, even to enemies. And yet at other times I don't try to knock people over and all, and as such my model misses their model by quite an amount, and the result is them getting knocked over completely. My guess is that the client horse and the server horse are in two completely different locations. This would happen occasionally in Warband, e.g when you horse bumped something, your horse would go slightly out of sync with the server for some reason, and the result was that if you tried to do a tight controlled maneuver through a small gap you would crash into one of the sides, because the horse on your screen and the horse in the server were in two slightly different places. I feel like this is what Bannerlord's horses are like 100% of the time, but it's also a mess for the people trying to attack the horse as well.

My perspective on a rework of the horses would be:
-Fix the horse server location, if that is indeed the issue right now
-Pierce damage should do more damage through horse armor, specifically horse stabs to the front of the horse by spears(this way it's not a buff against the slightly underpowered light horses)
-It should be easier/the hitbox should be larger for a spear stab-rearing attack on a horse's front
-The helplessness time period of the rider should be reduced (right now you're completely useless and can't do anything while the horse is in it's rearing animation, which is really annoying, and sometimes needlessly life-ending if the enemy team has a competent archer).
-The rearing animation should be longer when you crash into objects at higher speeds
-Turn rate of slow/stationary horses should be reduced
-Turn rate for horses at higher speeds should be increased a bit
-The hitbox for a horse to bump someone over should be bigger(or fixed, at least)
-The time it takes to get up from being knocked over should be reduced significantly, by as much as 50%
-Lance/Spear stabs from stationary horses should do a lot less damage (right now it feels like they do full damage with no speed bonus, anyone else feel this?).
-Reduce riding skill for non-cavalry classes, and perhaps completely restrict higher level horses
-Horse rider needs more protection from their shield, although this is an issue for everyone, not just cav.
-Thrusting animation still has that weird delay, which makes timing lace stabs harder, as well as timing anti-cav spear attacks harder as well, but this is an issue for everyone as well
 
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Rasdor

Knight
Echoing everything here. For singleplayer the combat is vastly better than Warband. For multiplayer it is clunky, no where near as fluent and quite simply does not have anywhere near the competitive potential that Warband's combat system does. I feel that the skill ceiling has been significantly lowered to the point that any fight between even half decent players will become a never ending slugfest because the things players did in Warband to apply mental pressure to the opponent to get around their block have been either removed or make significantly worse. I'm talking about things like glitchfeinting (I get why they removed it, but it increased the skill ceiling significantly in Warband -- and even normal feinting is significantly worse than in Warband) and hilt slashing doesn't seem to be possible or is severely nerfed for example. Chambering is also so finicky as to make it essentially pointless to attempt.

I think that shields also need a slight nerf -- even with an axe there take forever to break and anyone even half competent at manual blocking will literally never have their shield break.

The whiff mechanic (speed and distance damage bonus) seems completely out of whack -- attacks which should clearly bounce off often end up doing massive damage and vice versa. This has made footwork far less important I feel as you can't manipulate your position to make an enemy attack bounce off anymore without basically rolling the dice and hoping it works.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The whiff mechanic (speed and distance damage bonus) seems completely out of whack -- attacks which should clearly bounce off often end up doing massive damage and vice versa. This has made footwork far less important I feel as you can't manipulate your position to make an enemy attack bounce off anymore without basically rolling the dice and hoping it works.

On the opposite end, the amount of times I've wound an attack up and it literally cannot ****ing bounce, it does. 😤😤😤
 

Flaviuss

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Well as im not DoF i guess i can give an opinion.

I've played pretty much most major MP modules and have competed in tournaments on both mercs and native for the last two years, however i do not have the experience of the veterans, which hopefully makes me less biased towards warbands mechanics.

Infantry: Just useless
- In its current state infantry is currently pretty useless, feels like your either a bowling pin for cavalry, target practice for archers or slapping other inf with a wooden sword.
- Hits are just too random with damage, ive blunted with a full overhead on a peasant, yet what appeared to be the slowest hit ever one hits them.
- Shields, directional shield blocking is pointless and makes shields too strong
- Spears also need their hits sorting, random blunts at 5m/s needs to be changed
- The lack of killing power for one handers, as ive said they are just too weak
- Playing against cav as inf is just impossible really, even if you rear them (with their tiny hitbox) they tank every hit from the inf and just keep on running.

Archers: Bloody Legolas' everywhere
- Way too overpowered at the moment too accurate and are able to hold their own in melee very easily.
- The lack of arrow drop is stupid
- The cross-hair in 3rd person and 1st person need redoing IMO, very weird to play
- Accuracy is high due to no arrow drop and shields being stupidly easy to go around.

I was able to into a skirmish in my first 2 hours of the game as a level 1 vs some level 20's and 30's play as battanian fian every round and just curb stomp the enemy and im trash

Cavalry: The most overpowered and under-powered at the same time
- They act as bowling balls sending inf to another dimension with every bump it feels yet manuvere like a drunk man on ice.
- The horses health and hitbox need work as it feels like most hits are blunts, and even if not, the horse is just able to ride off like nothing happened, even if reared in a group of inf.
- Couches shouldnt last forever!
- Overhead hits as cav feel so clunky
- Increase maneuverability for horses, it isnt even realistic how horses move and turn at the moment (i own horses) so i have no clue how taleworlds wants to justify that decision
- Bumps shouldnt be so OP, i can understand in single player people want it, but in MP it is just too OP to leave a unit on the ground for what feels like an age.
- And is every cav a ninja or what that can just roll up from being dismounted in half a second. like wtf.



So i now give my guide to bannerlord classes

Inf: Dont use unless dire, use a two hander and just left click to win and use the S key, oh and also bunny hop around the place.

Archer: Just shoot wherever its impossible to miss, if you see an inf run at you, just fight him you might just somehow swing quicker than him

Cav, Press X to win, avoid turns just go in big straight lines, and if reared up, just yawn and press w a few times
 
Inf: Dont use unless dire, use a two hander and just left click to win and use the S key, oh and also bunny hop around the place.
you are right, except when you are playing captain mode, especially sturgian infantry will do very well against all those archers. you need infantry in any matchup (altough you will still have a hard time when playing agains khuzait / asarai, all those horses...)
 

bblzd

Veteran
M&B
Yep I think we need to include which game mode we're referring to when proposing certain changes.

For example shields, they might never break in Skirmish but currently in other modes they've started breaking quite often after the 2x 10% reduction to shield HP over the beta. The difference being in Captain or Siege it's not uncommon to absorb 20 hits in a couple seconds.

I find the class differences stand out more in Captains Mode also. When even a 1% advantage is multiplied over 10-20 A.I. units you start to notice which classes beat which and in what situations. In skirmish it mostly just comes down to individual player skill where one can make even Recruit or Skirmisher classes look deadly while altering their equipped gear from dropped items.
 

Horked

Thorr, one of the top players in the Warband scene and long term member of Unity, which recently won the last WNL, provided feedback by PM, which I'll summarise:

- movements in general are too floaty and slow (y)
- classes and perks are unbalanced (who would play a peasant with bad weapons and armor?) (y)
- spears and javelins in melee are too strong - Not sure about javs, maybe, as for spears; spear connect and damage could maybe be looked at, regardless: give shorter spears 4 attack directions
- throwing weapons do too much damage - Ive been thinking that the throwing spears (pilas etc) are too weak vs infantry (fine vs cav, i guess due to speedbonus), but ill agree that the smaller throwing weapons is rather (too?) high damage
- shooters are too accurate - (y)theres not big difference between accuracy perks and non-accuracy perks. they are all equally accurate but different holdtimes. xbows is too accurate
- blocking will be good once you can block 2 opponents (this is what we mean by clutch blocking - OGL) (y)
- jumping need a nerf (while fighting you can leap like a kangaroo to escape) (n)
- infantry spears need to be shorter (I feel like some spears are longer than some lances of the cavs) :unsure:
- bumpstabs need to be more easy to do (y)
IMO for what its worth

edit: sry for necro, didnt realize its 1 yo :s
 
Amazing how relevant this is over a year into the future, great job taleworld you really listened to your community huh... -snipped-
 
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