Multiplayer experience.

[Tork789]

so much of the **** you say seems to come from a brain that lacks any form of coherent thought, so its hard to tell with you dude.

Now that's not very nice now is it.

 

[Scar]

You say they aren't, then they probably aren't, right? No need to provide arguments.

Hahaha, it's getting quite funny now. So you can't offer an explanation, fair enough.

Ever heard of skepticism? I don't have to have an opposing opinion to question yours. But yeah I don't think that those two are op, but you said that I said that the game is balanced, which is a different statement. So the question is: are you not following your own line of arguments or you're just dishonest?

You cannot not have an opposing opinion to mine on balance and at the same time think they are not overpowered. I'm following my line of arguments very closely, you just seem unable to follow.

Just because I'm not convincing you doesn't mean I'm not pointing out flaws, same as if you think I'm doing it lazily or not.

Point me to where you have actually managed to point out flaws in the argument, and not just said I don't think so or asked for more statistics.

So what do you propose? Dump the tournaments, dump the statisitcs and balance the game around what you and couple of your friends say?

I'm fairly confident that you will arrive at the same conclusions, with or without reducing the pool of those eligible for giving feedback to tournament winners only. Normal distribution.

So you do see downsides of lances and crossbows but fail to see one for menavlion? Alright, how about the fact that you don't have a shield? Is that not a downside? Is it not obvious that I have to point it out to a warband veteran? Come on Scar.

So because it doesn't have a shield, it should be able to go around and oneshot everything? That's a downside, but not a balancing one appearently looking at the videos that Kawaii and jon have presented.

Wrong. I see a lot of players except you, therefore I don't think there's a high chance of me ending up playing alone if you or other warband vets stop playing.

Sure, we will see for how long if things stay the same.

 

[Tork789]

You cannot not have an opposing opinion to mine on balance and at the same time think they are not overpowered.

I don't have an opposing opinion on overall state of the balance, I don't think it's balanced, since, as you should already know by my constant proposals there's no competitive data yet that I could at least start deriving the conclusions of what should be balanced. I think that cav and menavlion aren't op, but I might be wrong still.

Point me to where you have actually managed to point out flaws in the argument, and not just said I don't think so or asked for more statistics.

How about me pointing out that menavlion has downsides when you failed to see that? Does that count as pointing out flaws in an argument? You even admitted it's a downside.

I'm fairly confident that you will arrive at the same conclusions, with or without reducing the pool of those eligible for giving feedback to tournament winners only. Normal distribution.

I'm not suggesting taking feedback from tournament winners only. The overall data from the tournament will be much more useful.

So because it doesn't have a shield, it should be able to go around and oneshot everything? That's a downside, but not a balancing one appearently looking at the videos that Kawaii and jon have presented.

That would be my line of reasoning. And I already explained why I don't consider the videos as valid arguments.

Sure, we will see for how long if things stay the same.

Yeah, the time will show.

 

[Orion]

Props to Scar for having a conversation with Tork without being an asshat. Some of you should follow his example, or atleast choose not to post if all you've got is flaming.

 

[Scar]

I don't have an opposing opinion on overall state of the balance, I don't think it's balanced, since, as you should already know by my constant proposals there's no competitive data yet that I could at least start deriving the conclusions of what should be balanced. I think that cav and menavlion aren't op, but I might be wrong still.

I think that's a pretty weird opinion to have, but I doubt we will make substential progress discussing this further so I'm happy we agree to disagree.

How about me pointing out that menavlion has downsides when you failed to see that? Does that count as pointing out flaws in an argument? You even admitted it's a downside.

If you read closely, I was talking about noticeable downsides that add to the overall balance of the class by toning down its strengths. As you could see in the two videos provided, not having a shield did not stop the class from going around for prolonged periods of time oneshotting everything. Obviously though you believe that this is enough drawdown to make the class balanced, so in your book you have proven me wrong. Again, we can agree to disagree.

I'm not suggesting taking feedback from tournament winners only. The overall data from the tournament will be much more useful.

Which leads to the next issues: Interpretation of the stats and adjustment for external factors. Balancing a game is a very complex task, but everyone can feel when something is off. I don't think more statistics are the solution to that, though they can help of course. As I've written elsewhere, players make their decision on whether to keep playing or not based on emotions, not logic. When their gut tells them something is wrong, that will affect experience playing the game. When enough people share that bad experience, you will run into issues in terms of player base sooner rather than later. That is why I still believe making some decisions on balancing, based on what the majority think is justified, are important. It's not like they are set in stone forever anyway.

That would be my line of reasoning. And I already explained why I don't consider the videos as valid arguments.

These videos offer a vital insight into how the game plays out in reality, and more than any other tool they capture the gut feeling of the player base. Everyone can look at the videos and judge for themselves whether what they just saw seems balanced or not. Excluding videos in such discussions because of your still unexplained claim that player skill plays a role in damage calculation seems unwise.

Anyway, I'll leave it here. I hope I am wrong and you are right, it would be better for the game.

 

[Joshu4BananaClip]

Props to Scar for having a conversation with Tork without being an asshat. Some of you should follow his example, or atleast choose not to post if all you've got is flaming.

noone needs your epolice peen here

 

[Tork789]

I think that's a pretty weird opinion to have, but I doubt we will make substential progress discussing this further so I'm happy we agree to disagree.

If you read closely, I was talking about noticeable downsides that add to the overall balance of the class by toning down its strengths. As you could see in the two videos provided, not having a shield did not stop the class from going around for prolonged periods of time oneshotting everything. Obviously though you believe that this is enough drawdown to make the class balanced, so in your book you have proven me wrong. Again, we can agree to disagree.

Likewise

Which leads to the next issues: Interpretation of the stats and adjustment for external factors. Balancing a game is a very complex task, but everyone can feel when something is off. I don't think more statistics are the solution to that, though they can help of course. As I've written elsewhere, players make their decision on whether to keep playing or not based on emotions, not logic. When their gut tells them something is wrong, that will affect experience playing the game. When enough people share that bad experience, you will run into issues in terms of player base sooner rather than later. That is why I still believe making some decisions on balancing, based on what the majority think is justified, are important. It's not like they are set in stone forever anyway.

Well yeah, I think I've said before that if a lot of people from the community say something it's at least worth investigating. And they did nerf the cav already once, so I'm pretty sure they do pay at least some attention. Not gonna be surprised with another nerf, considering how often I see the "nerf cav" threads lately.

These videos offer a vital insight into how the game plays out in reality, and more than any other tool they capture the gut feeling of the player base. Everyone can look at the videos and judge for themselves whether what they just saw seems balanced or not. Excluding videos in such discussions because of your still unexplained claim that player skill plays a role in damage calculation seems unwise.

And again I never suggested removing videos or not using them, I just explained my position towards the conclusions some people here have drawn from the said videos.

Anyway, I'll leave it here. I hope I am wrong and you are right, it would be better for the game.

Likewise. Have a good time of the day.

 

[๖Kern]

Tork is waging a full-on war with half of the active posters here on forums. Kind of reminds me of Fietta, except Fietta's arguments actually made sense at some point (I do not mean this as an insult Fietta, more like a bow).

What's the point, when you are obviously not right? People have already shown you all the material and arguments you might need to reconsider your opinion, yet, you keep arguing - it's not even arguing because you have no relevant arguments in the first place. You are only making half of the people ragequit the discussion with your willful blindness.

 

[Klausolus]

I guess he just likes the feeling of going against the current like a salmon.

 

[Sundeki]

Props to Scar for having a conversation with Tork without being an asshat. Some of you should follow his example, or atleast choose not to post if all you've got is flaming.

When all someone does is strawman and nitpick the mode of the argument rather than the argument itself, while consistently holding the contrary opinion; flaming is inevitable. There are several people on this forum that have similar opinions to a couple of these flame-baiters, but they never end up flamed. Why is that?

If the exact same person is getting "flamed" over and over again, then most of the time it's the result of flame-baiting on their behalf, rather than a problem with almost everyone else.

 

[Fietta]

Tork is waging a full-on war with half of the active posters here on forums. Kind of reminds me of Fietta, except Fietta's arguments actually made sense at some point (I do not mean this as an insult Fietta, more like a bow).

I'm watching you... my intention with my arguments was to open people's eyes about certain issues *cough* MOSS *cough*.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

You still think you were right about GDPR? ?

 

[Shemaforash]

You still think you were right about GDPR? ?

when you apply your study knowledge to real life situations for the first time

 

[lawbringer]

lets just listen 2 the euroboy nolifers who spent more of their life than they should have on this game because they know what makes this game more fun than warband singleplayers coming in to lower the skill ceiling

they are the people that were passionate enough about the system to continually play to the highest degree

if we listen to bad players/casuals they will play it for maybe a total of 50 hours then quit when the next call of duty comes out

if you think those people are gonna be the ones to create events and build a community u r hilarious