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Multiplayer Elephant In The Room. Khuzait Is Designed To Be Annoying To Play As And Annoying To Play Against, And Do Not Fit Into The Games Economy
- Thread starter EbdanianAdmiral
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When you dismount to fight and some peasant bowman steals your horse.
When that peasant bowman is now a master horse archer.
When you subsequently die because classes are meaningless.
Glaive is NOT good on cav v cav if you or the person you are fighting knows how it works.
I died to it exactly once the first time I saw it in a comp match and haven’t since. If you have any pole arm longer than 175 you can very easily outreach it and stab the rider.
As I explicitly stated in the OP. The glaive is a “win more” weapon. If you’re already better than your opponent, or already winning, it’s amazing. If you are mechanically not as good as your opponents it will not help you climb back into the round because of its inherent weaknesses to good Archers and good Cav.
I died to it exactly once the first time I saw it in a comp match and haven’t since. If you have any pole arm longer than 175 you can very easily outreach it and stab the rider.
As I explicitly stated in the OP. The glaive is a “win more” weapon. If you’re already better than your opponent, or already winning, it’s amazing. If you are mechanically not as good as your opponents it will not help you climb back into the round because of its inherent weaknesses to good Archers and good Cav.
It’s not this discussion it’s literally just one guy flaming. If he wants to keep posting reasons why he thinks Khuzait is good I’m fine to continue shutting those arguments down but the ad hominem needs to stop.
while i agree classes are meaningless, making them meaningful is a delicate balance. what about giving nomad an option to not spawn with a horse? what if a charger horse was just one of the perks?
It’s a solid idea but you would need to rework a lot of the class with 1 perk. For the nomads price, a perk that replaces its horse with a large shield would need to also give it a much better one handed weapon, a lot more armor, and faster movement speed. Otherwise it just becomes a more expensive and less flexible version of the already bad Spearman. I’d much rather they just rework the Rabble to be a good class, and make the spearman fit more into the multi spawn system.
Why not just give the Khuzaits an actually good infantry class?
Make the Spearman 120 gold again and replace the Horse Archer with a proper 160g heavy inf.
Why not make the Khan's Guard a dual unit like Vlandias Voulgier?
The devs would have to pick between having a foot archer that is extremely fast for foot archers or an infantry that is extremely slow for infantry.
It would be awkward but I guess 76 speed would be fine for both an archer and an infantry. You could have an advanced armor perk which replaces the bow and arrows with better armor and a larger shield. The glaive it already can pick would function as its "spear" perk. It wouldnt be allowed to have any throwing perks because you cant put the throwing perk on the same side as the armor perk which turns it into an infantry because you wouldnt be able to take both at the same time. You also cant put the throwing perk on the opposite side as the armor perk because then you could take both a bow and throwing weapons.
Overall I think it would be easier to just replace the class everyone hates fighting against with one that would make the faction much more viable. People who still want to play HA after the change can just go Nomad. Nomad gets a bow and arrow perk.
I had this thought too. Increased Spear infantry speed just slightly to make them a proper medium infantry class, add Darkhan as a proper heavy infantry class.
I think it would put Khuzait back on par with other facs but my issue is that I feel like it's weird to try and put Khuzait's redeeming factor at infantry. Khuzait isn't supposed to be super reliant on heavy infantry so of course the infantry classes are the worst but they also didn't give them above average cav or archers.
Im 100% on board with replacing a class with the Darkhan as a fun and thematic Heavy Infantry. It doesn't need to be a top tier heavy inf like the Oathsworn or the Varyag to immensely help the faction. A Darkhan on top of giving the cav equivalent lances and horses to other heavy cav and making Spear Infantry a proper medium infantry with 80 speed would be enough to help the faction.
Not to resurrect some forum DLC content, but for funsies I hopped on an East Asian servers and tested the waters. I made 2 discoveries.
1: 250 ping is unplayable
2: It didnt matter.
This makes me happy because it was your only argument I couldn't immediately disprove with actual stats or anything.
RCC_God
Knight
Dang East Asians suckIm 100% on board with replacing a class with the Darkhan as a fun and thematic Heavy Infantry. It doesn't need to be a top tier heavy inf like the Oathsworn or the Varyag to immensely help the faction. A Darkhan on top of giving the cav equivalent lances and horses to other heavy cav and making Spear Infantry a proper medium infantry with 80 speed would be enough to help the faction.
Not to resurrect some forum DLC content, but for funsies I hopped on an East Asian servers and tested the waters. I made 2 discoveries.
1: 250 ping is unplayable
2: It didnt matter.
This makes me happy because it was your only argument I couldn't immediately disprove with actual stats or anything.
Kut
Sergeant at Arms
For the lore ? No need to worry. Steppe soldiers have human legs too.
They can fight on foot really well IF it is needed.Darkhan is ok imo. Other than that what's the alternative ? Fine, Khuzait is a horsey horsey faction. Then if it's like that let's create heavy armored rohirrim lancers and heavy armored mounted legolas. Or lightly armored highly maneuvreble speedy aimbot killers. People will flame this one too..
Heavy inf. is ok unless it doesn't surpass legionnare and sergeant imo. If it's below these girls/boys it will create a little bit breathe space for the khuzait since MP runs on mainly foot soldiers...
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I do agree with you, but I think it's better for factions to be balanced by having differing strengths. Khuzait has "good" cav (not really), and to compensate they get bad archers and inf. Meanwhile, the fun factions, like Vlandia, don't have a weakness so much as competing advantages.
If other factions had to make tradeoffs like this, maybe the Khuzaits' position would be fair. Unfortunately, this design philosophy is only half-applied (Khuzait, Sturgia, Aserai). Even then, the weaknesses of Aserai (bad inf), or Sturgia (bad archers) don't even compare to how Khuzait has been fricked.
I think it'd be more fun if Khuzait had average infantry (comparable to say, Vlandia), average archers (comparable to Empire), and killer cav. Right now, it seems as though they're balanced for an entirely different set of factions.
I would argue that Khuzait cav is currently the worst cav in the game. 100% serious. The lancer is easily the worst Heavy Cav, with its much shorter lance and slower horse. Its tougher horse upgrade completely prevents it from taking a shield. Its lance is so short that the Battanian Cav actually outranges it with the normal Battanian Cav loadout. The Battanian Cav is also faster.
As Pacemaker and others have said, the Nomad is arguably the worst light cav. It gets completely outclassed by the other light cav due to being squishier and slower, while also keeping the same shorter length weapon. I unironically think the skill ceiling for Battanian cav (a faction designed around having bad cav) is higher.
If you want khuzait to be more viable give them the best cav in the game and make nomad a REALLY good light cav. Then make spear inf faster and cheaper and you have a good faction. No need to add a new class. You’d also need to change the price of HA drastically or nerf it.
I don't disagree with you. The only argument for them having a cav advantage is the HA. That's why I said "good" in quotations and followed it with a "(not really)."
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