Multiplayer Class description/guide as of version 1.143

jackx

Sergeant at Arms
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So essentially, by eschewing the use of firearms you obtain the right to not be shot at more than once? 
Fine by me, you get one melee attack in return, if that fails to kill me, we'll then both just refrain from fighting each other from that point forward, as we've both used up our entire attack allowance...

I'm not in favour of everyone being able to become a multi-gun toting leadspitter btw, so restricting pick-ups, dynamic pricing (certain equipment combinations are more expensive than others) making accuracy/dmg a lot more proficiency-dependant, separating pistol and longarm skill and other balancing/diversifcation measures all would get my support...

Ultimately, gameplay should be designed around firearms though, and not trying to marginalize them as much as possible, making WFaS into Warband with fancy costumes and hats.
 

Ans99

Polish infantry is a something like ... mistake. They are weakest in game. Any class. Chekan or pike agaist poleaxe, halberd or 2h sword ? You need to have a lot of luck to survive it. Anyway ... just go to any server and play the siege on the Polish side. Cannon fodder for enemy infantry.
 

Dent

Knight at Arms
WF&S
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If anything, the Cossacks needed the buff.
When against Sweden, the Swedes always use the plate armor. Cossack swords are worthless against it, and those pistols aren't reliable at all. I consider myself good at melee, but it's still 50/50 against the worst swedish infantryman; if I get a single glancing blow from missing his head, I'm killed in a single swing of that two-hander. It takes me upwards of 4 hits against his 1, and his reach is better as well.
The mace is much better, but could use a small speed boost.
 

Kerc

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Ans99 said:
Polish infantry is a something like ... mistake. They are weakest in game. Any class. Chekan or pike agaist poleaxe, halberd or 2h sword ? You need to have a lot of luck to survive it. Anyway ... just go to any server and play the siege on the Polish side. Cannon fodder for enemy infantry.
whaaat? sounds like the issue isn't the polish infantry but rather you.
the polish infantry is easily one of the most solid infantry classes in the game. learn to love that spear because it's magnificent since it got its overhead stab

I still believe the miquelet  musket needs to be re-examined and given a swift hit with a nerf bat. Cossacks having them is fine because their low fire arm stats don't make them godly but the swedes having them is incredibly unfun to fight against due to their already high accuracy plus the mirq's increased accuracy, damage and reload speed.
 
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Can I just make the point here that while it may well be that in Battle and/or Siege the Swedish Musketeer is overpowered and all other musketeers are balanced, in DM and TDM it is much more the case that all Musketeers other than the Swedish one are horribly UNDERpowered (unless they use grenades) and the Swedish Musketeer is the only one worth playing (and even then, only barely).

Nerf the Swedish Musketeer and you'll make it impossible for musketeers to effective in TDM except against significantly weaker players. Buff the other factions' musketeers and you increase Musketeers' dominance in Battle to the point that most other classes will become close to pointless.

I don't know what the solution is.
 

Ans99

Kerc said:
Ans99 said:
Polish infantry is a something like ... mistake. They are weakest in game. Any class. Chekan or pike agaist poleaxe, halberd or 2h sword ? You need to have a lot of luck to survive it. Anyway ... just go to any server and play the siege on the Polish side. Cannon fodder for enemy infantry.
whaaat? sounds like the issue isn't the polish infantry but rather you.
the polish infantry is easily one of the most solid infantry classes in the game. learn to love that spear because it's magnificent since it got its overhead stab
(...)
Even the description of the units no mention this ( "the polish infantry is easily one of the most solid infantry classes in the game. " )
Yes... solid infantry, best soldier, powerfull unit...but without weapons :smile: Pike against 2h sword  - i only wish you good luck. Or maby beter, simple example of wonderfull balance, chekan ( lenght : 70, speed : 90 ) against poleaxe ( lenght 120, speed: 85 ) and the winner is... of course soldier with chekan :wink: ( joke )
Losers at the start.
So... faster I stop playing this game on mp ( becouse seriously annoy me this "balance" ), than I love spear ( but really I consider it a great weapon  - has it every nation in the game ).
Seriously, chekan is a secondary weapon for fight on libation with neighbor, not to use in regular battle. Pike in XVII century  is a little bit like relic of the past.

Edit:
I think now balanced gameplay looks for example this: Swedes vs Muscovites, or Cossacks vs Poles.
Skipping the fact that the latter pair has even a little problem with the destruction of the gate or door during sieges.

 

Zbyh

Veteran
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Balance in MP was much better in 1.142, right now it is like:

Sweden
..
Khanate (but you need good horse archers in team to rule with this nation. If you also have open ground map, then Khanate archers are unstopable)
Poland
..
Muscovite
Cossacks

Polish nation is quite fine, their infantry just need proper 2h weapon.
Muscovite musketeer was nerfed in last patch, it's weak now comparing to others.
Cossacks musketeer (named in game as Infantry) is now ridiculously weak. They are smashed now in almost every Battle game by Poland or Sweden musketeers. Cossacks has similar accuracy as Muscovite musketeer, with higher damage. But Muscovite nation has Infantry as well. Cossacks don't have melee fighters at all, so without good musketeers (since 1.143 patch) this nation is just useless now. What's the point of having Miquelet Musket if, since last patch, you don't have accuracy to use it well ?
 

guy_incognito

Recruit
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Sweden is still not fun to play *against* in multiplayer, NOR does it correspond to 17th century swedish army.  17th century swedish army was lightly armored or unarmored (in the case of infantry) and relied on modified pike and shot formations supported by cavalry.  They were NOT snipers supported by Swedish guardsmen with halberds and 16th century full plate zweihander footmen. 
 

Ans99

Zbyh is right.
Cossacks require more attention.
Poles need a two-handed weapon (perhaps an axe?).

Bow (held by Khanate) has now become a more effective and deadly weapon than a rifle. With such a turnover of cases, you may find that on the battlefields will reign arches, completely displacing firearms.
I do not play Khanate, so I do not have suggestions.

Swedes shoot accurately from 200 meters without any problem. With accuracy of seventeenth-century firearms should be a little harder. In fact hit with such a distance in the target size of the house was practically impossible. Even today hit a man sized target from that distance is difficult (without optical tools).
It does not matter at this point. Important, however, that their accuracy is slightly exaggerated compared to other nations (not to mention bows).

Vayborg - this map must be improved, because now the fortress is not to conquer by the attackers. Mission impossible.

 

Kerc

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNW
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Ans99 said:
Kerc said:
Ans99 said:
Polish infantry is a something like ... mistake. They are weakest in game. Any class. Chekan or pike agaist poleaxe, halberd or 2h sword ? You need to have a lot of luck to survive it. Anyway ... just go to any server and play the siege on the Polish side. Cannon fodder for enemy infantry.
whaaat? sounds like the issue isn't the polish infantry but rather you.
the polish infantry is easily one of the most solid infantry classes in the game. learn to love that spear because it's magnificent since it got its overhead stab
(...)
Even the description of the units no mention this ( "the polish infantry is easily one of the most solid infantry classes in the game. " )
Yes... solid infantry, best soldier, powerfull unit...but without weapons :smile: Pike against 2h sword  - i only wish you good luck. Or maby beter, simple example of wonderfull balance, chekan ( lenght : 70, speed : 90 ) against poleaxe ( lenght 120, speed: 85 ) and the winner is... of course soldier with chekan :wink: ( joke )
Losers at the start.
So... faster I stop playing this game on mp ( becouse seriously annoy me this "balance" ), than I love spear ( but really I consider it a great weapon  - has it every nation in the game ).
Seriously, chekan is a secondary weapon for fight on libation with neighbor, not to use in regular battle. Pike in XVII century  is a little bit like relic of the past.

Edit:
I think now balanced gameplay looks for example this: Swedes vs Muscovites, or Cossacks vs Poles.
Skipping the fact that the latter pair has even a little problem with the destruction of the gate or door during sieges.
Nobody should be using a pike against any sort of infantry. I mean if you can manage to keep the distance sure but if they have the faintest idea of blocking they'd be able to close in on you without issue. The spear is a more anti-infantry weapon and while other factions do get it Poles have rather high polearm skill and their heavy black armour... pretty sure muscovites are very similar to them. As for the 1h vs 2h debate, really? 2h weapons aren't that great they're usually unbalanced and therefore can't faint well not to mention as you noted with the poleaxe which is 5 units slower than one of the slowest one handed weapons in the game (the chekan). The chekan is a very good side arm yeah it's shorter than most 1h but it does piercing damage allowing it to bypass the majority of the protection from armour. If you're not fighting armour use a good sabre and you shouldn't have any issues.

I can see your point regarding the fact that the pole infantry don't seem to excel at anything which is true, but that's due to their very all round nature that doesn't necessarily make them worse than anyone else.
 

guy_incognito

Recruit
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Some specific tips for use when going against Sweden in sieges, for the perplexed:

Use melee and walk around randomly like a spazz, making abrupt and random changes in direction.  Avoid ranged musket shooting. 

Moscovites should spam the balanced axe.  With good armor I can take one musket shot and two pistol shots.

Poles should use the shorter spear as infantry and the hussar lance as cav.  The Polish spear is good at close fights and it's pretty fast.  Mix the upper and lower spear attacks.  As inf, with good armor, I can take one musket shot. 
As cav, I try to start with at least a steppe horse.

None of this applies to Vyborg, though...
 

Ans99

Kerc.
This discussion probably does not make sense. That is why I write so late.
I agree with several points of your speech.
1st pike is not a weapon against infantry.
2nd Spear is a weapon more suitable for fighting on foot, but it is not perfect (as you know). It has a very limited application.
3rd Something else, but flew out of my head:smile:

Now ... I did not want to start discussions about 1h vs 2h. What I meant compare the weapons available to each faction.

You write about the black armor. Please note that hardly anyone wears it.
Maybe because it's hard to get it or earn it. It costs a lot, and getting such a sum by saber or pike requires a lot of luck.
Example. In the comparison of 1h to 2h weapons (yes I know it makes no sense - unfortunately do not have alternative). Armed with a saber I stand in front of the Swedish infantryman in full plate armor with two-hand sword  (Getting this equipment as a Swede it is not difficult.)
To kill him I have to hit 3 or 4 times, while his one hit knocks me right away.
How much luck do I have?
Otherwise, hardly anyone choose Polish infantryman - even during the siege.

If I am already at the sieges - Please note that on these maps as the Tartar camp, Poland (or Cossack) team does not attempt (or attempts rarely) destroy the gate. However if already starting to destroy it, it takes unmercifully long time.In fact, it is certain death.
The reason is the lack of weapons inflicting more damage.
In the same situation, the Swedes or the Muscovites destroyed the gate in a few seconds.

The conclusion is that the one-handed weapon has no advantage over the two-handed weapon. Inflicts less damage, is shorter. It is faster, right - but only slightly. Perhaps two-handed weapon is too fast?

I'm talking only about the game, because from a historical point of view the Swedes in the seventeenth century did not have such units.
Full plate armor, close helm and two-handed sword - a set just in time for the first battle of Tennenberg (1410).

... and for dessert is worth mentioning the Khanate and their horse archers - or rather the destructive power of their bows. This is probably the biggest mistake of the game.

That's it from me. Waiting for a patch.
 

Swadian-Zombie

Recruit
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will you guys think of adding some cannons? because i cant imagine the 1600 without some form of gunpowder artillery plz think about it
 

tkpk

Recruit
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that is what I was looking through I'm going to buy a mount & blade warband because now I play the demo XD and I have a level 6 one more level and ends the demo  :cry:
 

tarmokangur

Recruit
WF&S
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Everything is fine but when a horse gets hit to thge head he doesn't die, wtf nd as in real life all reloading spped is different sometimes it takes longer sometimes less.
 

ronin44

Squire
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Is there any description to know which factions use which weapons?
For example:
Cossacks weapons are: Cossack sabre ,etc...
Polish weapons are: Hussar lance, etc...