Multi-Player Adjustment Suggestions.

Colleptic

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Hello,

Most of this comes from a couple areas of experience. Hours of multi-player time, experience with other games, and being a long term HEMA Practitioner.

Movement speed(s) – character and weapons
  • moving backward
In this game, a fighter with a shield up and moving forward can be out run by a two-handed wielding, jumping and swinging fighter who is moving backwards…

The pursuing fighter cannot catch the fighter who is moving backwards, and spinning, and swinging a weapon. This makes me laugh every time I play the game, it is hilarious to watch, and frustrating. Raising a shield does not slow a person’s movement when a person raises the shield. If it does, it is so small it is irrelevant. I can move very fast with a raised shield, if I slow down, it is a choice. We can 100% move faster than someone moving backwards, jumping, and swinging period!

  1. Please increase the speed of shield user’s forward speed (below in shield section), basically fast enough to close in on all fighters backing up and jumping.
  2. Please slow down all people who back up and jump, that is NOT a valid or sane way to fight with any weapon, in fact if you did that, you would just get stabbed as you jumped backwards. Here is a way to fix it with out completely nerfing it.
    1. Backing up is slower than ALL moving forward
    2. Jumping “backwards” slows movement even more (note applies only to jumping backwards)
    3. Swinging while jumping lowers the “hit box/sweet spot” for all weapons.

Hopefully with the above we will stop seeing just fields of two handed weapon users just jumping around like fools dominating the multi-player experience.


Two Handed weapon re-balancing

Note: this comes from a person whose favorite weapon is the longsword, and has fought in many tournaments…and pretty much worships longswords…

They are way to overpowered. Fighters can be merely grazed by them, and they will do more damage then you have health. Giant axes can break weaker shields in one direct hit at times…what???
  1. Slightly lower their hit box/sweet spot – meaning their sweet spot is too big right now
  2. Most fighters are using an angle exploit right now. Meaning they will move backwards, run/jump, or spin slightly to your side and GRAZE your flank; doing full or close to full damage. I think this is only possible due to two-handed weapons having too big of a sweet spot, so that makes it possible to get the weapon do full damage with just a graze. I think with adjusting two-handed weapon’s sweet spots, slowing down backwards movement, lowering all weapon’s damage/sweet spots when jumping/spinning backwards…will fix this exploit as well.

Shields – my biggest complaint so far…

WHY DO THEY BREAK?

Look, shields do not break like that, if you believe that you have watched to many movies. Some shields lasted for many battles before they needed repair. A good shield user knows how to angle the shield, so that all blows just glance off. Font line shields or shield-walls are a different story, but we know those lasted for hours and hours too…

  1. REMOVE shield breaking (the only fighters in the game that get penalized while fighting are shield users…when blocking they are slower, cannot attack and their main means of defense can be taken from them in 1 hit...bigger shields in like 5...yaaaay! Just silly…
  2. Replace breaking with degradation/durability. I understand we do not want people hiding behind shields indefinitely (after all it is a game, we want results). So using the current health bars for shields, increasing the weaker ones just a bit, when that bar reaches say 90%, weapons start to hit through for 1 damage, axes maybe 2 damage etc…each 10% in reduction they hit though for SLIGHTLY more. So when the shields durability is zero, all weapons are doing like 5-10 damage (based upon the weapon type). This ensures that 5 attackers will still kill the shield user…prob 99% of the time. It gives the shield user a fighting chance, and also does not take way their main point…to be a shield user!

Spears
  1. Make the alternate button usage allow a fighter to shorted their spear grip. Just like you can flip a javelin with that button to use it as piecing weapon, please make it so you can shorten the grip on spears for close combat.
One thing that made spears the weapon of choice in history, was their ease of use, and their ability to fight at distance, and also close. When someone gets close, simply choke up on the spear.
  1. Make the smaller spears thrust a little faster (nuff said here)
  2. Added from Caps' post below - consistency with spear damage - glancing vs direct hits should be improved

That is all I got so far.
 
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Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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spears shouldnt be stronger, all they need to improve on them is the glance/poke consistency
 

Colleptic

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spears shouldnt be stronger, all they need to improve on them is the glance/poke consistency
I have to agree, I will add it above, I did notice that too...sometimes I swear I thrust right through people doing no damage, but that could have been frame rate or something graphically...?
 
Best answers
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Movement speed(s) – character and weapons
  • moving backward
In this game, a fighter with a shield up and moving forward can be out run by a two-handed wielding, jumping and swinging fighter who is moving backwards…

The pursuing fighter cannot catch the fighter who is moving backwards, and spinning, and swinging a weapon. This makes me laugh every time I play the game, it is hilarious to watch, and frustrating. Raising a shield does not slow a person’s movement when a person raises the shield. If it does, it is so small it is irrelevant. I can move very fast with a raised shield, if I slow down, it is a choice. We can 100% move faster than someone moving backwards, jumping, and swinging period!

  1. Please increase the speed of shield user’s forward speed (below in shield section), basically fast enough to close in on all fighters backing up and jumping.
  2. Please slow down all people who back up and jump, that is NOT a valid or sane way to fight with any weapon, in fact if you did that, you would just get stabbed as you jumped backwards. Here is a way to fix it with out completely nerfing it.
    1. Backing up is slower than ALL moving forward
    2. Jumping “backwards” slows movement even more (note applies only to jumping backwards)
    3. Swinging while jumping lowers the “hit box/sweet spot” for all weapons.

Hopefully with the above we will stop seeing just fields of two handed weapon users just jumping around like fools dominating the multi-player experience.
Def agree on the jumping but I woould not like to see lowering the speed. Fights feel so slow sometimes compared to Warband. Also when playing shielder I always hate to fight against a somewhat decent shielder because of the slow speed. I have to break their shield to be able to kill him because footwork isnt helping.

Shields – my biggest complaint so far…

WHY DO THEY BREAK?

Look, shields do not break like that, if you believe that you have watched to many movies. Some shields lasted for many battles before they needed repair. A good shield user knows how to angle the shield, so that all blows just glance off. Font line shields or shield-walls are a different story, but we know those lasted for hours and hours too…

  1. REMOVE shield breaking (the only fighters in the game that get penalized while fighting are shield users…when blocking they are slower, cannot attack and their main means of defense can be taken from them in 1 hit...bigger shields in like 5...yaaaay! Just silly…
Thats what I disagree the most. Its obv in correlation with what I said above but I feel like shields are to durable against 1h Axe.
Replace breaking with degradation/durability. I understand we do not want people hiding behind shields indefinitely (after all it is a game, we want results). So using the current health bars for shields, increasing the weaker ones just a bit, when that bar reaches say 90%, weapons start to hit through for 1 damage, axes maybe 2 damage etc…each 10% in reduction they hit though for SLIGHTLY more. So when the shields durability is zero, all weapons are doing like 5-10 damage (based upon the weapon type). This ensures that 5 attackers will still kill the shield user…prob 99% of the time. It gives the shield user a fighting chance, and also does not take way their main point…to be a shield user!
I dont like that idea because if you are in a duel where you want to fight with your shield stand no chance at all. If you fail to block once and loose half your hp you will die really fast by loosing hp per hit on your shield.

Spears
  1. Make the alternate button usage allow a fighter to shorted their spear grip. Just like you can flip a javelin with that button to use it as piecing weapon, please make it so you can shorten the grip on spears for close combat.
No. Spears have to have draw backs imo. They are supposed to be good against cav (which they arent) and as a support in melee. Giving them more strength in close combat would make it THE weapon to choose for every situation.

  1. Make the smaller spears thrust a little faster (nuff said here)
  2. Added from Caps' post below - consistency with spear damage - glancing vs direct hits should be improved
Agree. And they should one hit every horse when they are at full speed imo.
 

Delarme

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Spears just need to actually work against cav, right now they feel so weak against them.

A cav player running at me at full speed will one shot me but i'll only do 45-60 damage to his 200+ hp horse if I land my hit square on the front.

They dont need to one hit a fully armored horse, but they do need to do much more damage.
 

artiedee

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Good suggestions except for Shield Break, but maybe keep it yes if the shield is 50% health and below then the shield user takes 10% damage of every attack. Shields are too annoying to deal with, kicks and bashes do very little.
 

Colleptic

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Good suggestions except for Shield Break, but maybe keep it yes if the shield is 50% health and below then the shield user takes 10% damage of every attack. Shields are too annoying to deal with, kicks and bashes do very little.
Shields are tough to deal with period, this is their point. They were used throughout all of history for a reason, and even modern riot forces use them today. It should not be they are tough to deal with, so nerf them and completely take away from any sort of realism, but how to better deal with them, without taking away from a shield user.
 
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Mabons

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Hello,

Most of this comes from a couple areas of experience. Hours of multi-player time, experience with other games, and being a long term HEMA Practitioner.

Movement speed(s) – character and weapons
  • moving backward
In this game, a fighter with a shield up and moving forward can be out run by a two-handed wielding, jumping and swinging fighter who is moving backwards…

That's because the 2 handed classes have a higher movement speed. This is to counteract the fact that you, as a 1 handed shield user will want to hug their face and prevent them using the reach of their weapon.

The pursuing fighter cannot catch the fighter who is moving backwards, and spinning, and swinging a weapon. This makes me laugh every time I play the game, it is hilarious to watch, and frustrating. Raising a shield does not slow a person’s movement when a person raises the shield. If it does, it is so small it is irrelevant. I can move very fast with a raised shield, if I slow down, it is a choice. We can 100% move faster than someone moving backwards, jumping, and swinging period!

Jumping doesnt actually give you any advantages except maybe a surprise. I get it's not realistic but then hardly any of the game is "realistic" anyways.

  1. Please increase the speed of shield user’s forward speed (below in shield section), basically fast enough to close in on all fighters backing up and jumping.
  2. Please slow down all people who back up and jump, that is NOT a valid or sane way to fight with any weapon, in fact if you did that, you would just get stabbed as you jumped backwards. Here is a way to fix it with out completely nerfing it.
    1. Backing up is slower than ALL moving forward
    2. Jumping “backwards” slows movement even more (note applies only to jumping backwards)
    3. Swinging while jumping lowers the “hit box/sweet spot” for all weapons.

Hopefully with the above we will stop seeing just fields of two handed weapon users just jumping around like fools dominating the multi-player experience.


Two Handed weapon re-balancing

Note: this comes from a person whose favorite weapon is the longsword, and has fought in many tournaments…and pretty much worships longswords…

They are way to overpowered. Fighters can be merely grazed by them, and they will do more damage then you have health. Giant axes can break weaker shields in one direct hit at times…what???
  1. Slightly lower their hit box/sweet spot – meaning their sweet spot is too big right now
  2. Most fighters are using an angle exploit right now. Meaning they will move backwards, run/jump, or spin slightly to your side and GRAZE your flank; doing full or close to full damage. I think this is only possible due to two-handed weapons having too big of a sweet spot, so that makes it possible to get the weapon do full damage with just a graze. I think with adjusting two-handed weapon’s sweet spots, slowing down backwards movement, lowering all weapon’s damage/sweet spots when jumping/spinning backwards…will fix this exploit as well.
You are spot on here though, the hitboxes are ridiculous. What looks like a perfectly landed hit will bounce and then the dude who spun his axe into my head right at the start of his swing does full damage.


Shields – my biggest complaint so far…

WHY DO THEY BREAK?

Look, shields do not break like that, if you believe that you have watched to many movies. Some shields lasted for many battles before they needed repair. A good shield user knows how to angle the shield, so that all blows just glance off. Font line shields or shield-walls are a different story, but we know those lasted for hours and hours too…

  1. REMOVE shield breaking (the only fighters in the game that get penalized while fighting are shield users…when blocking they are slower, cannot attack and their main means of defense can be taken from them in 1 hit...bigger shields in like 5...yaaaay! Just silly…
  2. Replace breaking with degradation/durability. I understand we do not want people hiding behind shields indefinitely (after all it is a game, we want results). So using the current health bars for shields, increasing the weaker ones just a bit, when that bar reaches say 90%, weapons start to hit through for 1 damage, axes maybe 2 damage etc…each 10% in reduction they hit though for SLIGHTLY more. So when the shields durability is zero, all weapons are doing like 5-10 damage (based upon the weapon type). This ensures that 5 attackers will still kill the shield user…prob 99% of the time. It gives the shield user a fighting chance, and also does not take way their main point…to be a shield user!
Actually many would agree shields are far too durable right now. Two guys with a shield fighting against each other, that know what they are doing... can go on forever. Only once the shields break do you actually see some ground gained.


Spears
  1. Make the alternate button usage allow a fighter to shorted their spear grip. Just like you can flip a javelin with that button to use it as piecing weapon, please make it so you can shorten the grip on spears for close combat.
One thing that made spears the weapon of choice in history, was their ease of use, and their ability to fight at distance, and also close. When someone gets close, simply choke up on the spear.
  1. Make the smaller spears thrust a little faster (nuff said here)
  2. Added from Caps' post below - consistency with spear damage - glancing vs direct hits should be improved
Another one that I feel spears are in a perfect spot right now, they work nicely as a support weapon and if you could use them close up then it would be impossible to punish spearmen for being over aggressive in a groupfight. Right now I can feint an attack and then rush the spearman down in a 1v2, with this suggestion it would be hard because he would be able to fight back instead of holding his shield.

That is all I got so far.
 

Colleptic

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Def agree on the jumping but I woould not like to see lowering the speed. Fights feel so slow sometimes compared to Warband. Also when playing shielder I always hate to fight against a somewhat decent shielder because of the slow speed. I have to break their shield to be able to kill him because footwork isnt helping.

Only lowering the speed backward, which is realistic. If the player wants to move faster, turn around and run, risk being hit. If having a shield up no longer slows us down, and people backpedaling move slower, out flanking someone becomes a more viable option. Just so you know, I too think overall movement in the game is too slow; that is foot work, and most single handed weapons are too slow.

I dont like that idea because if you are in a duel where you want to fight with your shield stand no chance at all. If you fail to block once and loose half your hp you will die really fast by loosing hp per hit on your shield.

It is a slow progression, it should not happen as fast as shield durability right now. One-on-one the damage done should not be high enough to be much of an issue. Though if one fighter chooses only to block, that would be their downfall, even in a duel. The main damage to the shield here should come from being wailed on by many foes. Duels should be a non-issue with shields, things that require timing and skill should be what determines a duel, not a shield breaking. If that is the case, why not make weapons and armor break too?

No. Spears have to have draw backs imo. They are supposed to be good against cav (which they arent) and as a support in melee. Giving them more strength in close combat would make it THE weapon to choose for every situation.

It was the weapon of choice in reality for a reason, in most armies, the sidearm was the support weapon. The developer are already allowing characters to use weapons as we would/could not in RL...such as the Mev on a horse...watching someone swing one from side-to-side through their horse's head is awesome!
Quick comment above for you.
 
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Colleptic

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Some more points for you:

  • That's because the 2 handed classes have a higher movement speed. This is to counteract the fact that you, as a 1 handed shield user will want to hug their face and prevent them using the reach of their weapon.

So running backward and twirling around like idiots is good, and unrealistically be able to out run people moving backwards is good? I know you prob do not think that. In reality two handed weapons can be used at close range, longsword just go half-sword, and axes you just choke up on the weapon with the top hand, an use smaller motions. How about like I mentioned with spears, making the alternate function button switching grips for close combat on two-handers too? Maybe something to test in beta? Much better solution than defying reality moving backwards. Another point would be if two-handed users get to move backwards so fast to counter huggers, why not everyone else? Everyone should be able to get out of the range of axes and mavs faster too no? You can see how favoring this for just one type of weapon user is unbalanced?

  • Actually many would agree shields are far too durable right now. Two guys with a shield fighting against each other, that know what they are doing... can go on forever. Only once the shields break do you actually see some ground gained.

The fix should not be blowing up shields. How about allowing button taps for weaker, but much faster swings to beat blocks, and stagger to then hit again, and holding the button for the current slow power swings. (I may have a separate post about weapon swinging that I did not want to include here...I think it will help with the long duels). Increasing the forward movement when shields are up, slow backpedaling, more flanking…might make for better combat? Increase combative(s), not bad mechanics imo.

I am not to good at the open wild swinging chaos out there on the servers, but I can hold my own when I isolate any fighter one-on-one (I pulled off some cool kills, which felt so much better than spin-to-win). I have also been in a couple long flights, and still killed them, it took a while, but I eventually caught them…and that felt epic and felt legitimately like I was sparring someone in RL, waiting for them to make a mistake or out provoke/feint them. I have died in those many times too; when I die in a good duel, I am often impressed by the other person or I know I dropped my shield a little to early, or did something wrong combatively. Unlike when a two-hander hits the side of my shoulder, when I have my shield up, when I cannot close the distance, and somehow it registers a shoulder hit for 147 damage…and it happens like that 10 times in a row, but from slightly different angles...

  • Another one that I feel spears are in a perfect spot right now, they work nicely as a support weapon and if you could use them close up then it would be impossible to punish spearmen for being over aggressive in a groupfight. Right now I can feint an attack and then rush the spearman down in a 1v2, with this suggestion it would be hard because he would be able to fight back instead of holding his shield.

What you like here, you do not like for two-handed weapons you just mentioned above? You will allow for rushing/hugging spear users, but not axe wielders? Spears are not support weapons (someone else said this in this thread too…). They are main weapons and sidearms are support weapons. I think people have that backwards due to pop culture and movies. Spears are deadly; if I was forced to only ever use one weapon...ever, I would grab a spear. You can use them at length, in close, and you can slide the shaft (get your mind out of the gutter) in your hand to deceive the weapon's measure to hit. Pretty much the only defense against them is to rush into very close distances, and I mean grappling distances. One can try to the inside of the spear to get a quick hit in, if you try anything while it moves to far backwards, like you can in this game, it will be bad news, because spears can change to forward motion in an instance (they do that way to slow in this game). Maybe just speeding up that transition for spears backwards to forwards in this game, and still allowing the rush in as a defense might create the balance needed? One can rush in, but if you mistime it you will get counter stabbed much easier.

I agree, this is far from reality in general, why not add something to counter or improve that vs making the counters/defense farther from?
 

Zoonanay

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Some more points for you:

  • That's because the 2 handed classes have a higher movement speed. This is to counteract the fact that you, as a 1 handed shield user will want to hug their face and prevent them using the reach of their weapon.

So running backward and twirling around like idiots is good, and unrealistically be able to out run people moving backwards is good? I know you prob do not think that. In reality two handed weapons can be used at close range, longsword just go half-sword, and axes you just choke up on the weapon with the top hand, an use smaller motions. How about like I mentioned with spears, making the alternate function button switching grips for close combat on two-handers too? Maybe something to test in beta? Much better solution than defying reality moving backwards. Another point would be if two-handed users get to move backwards so fast to counter huggers, why not everyone else? Everyone should be able to get out of the range of axes and mavs faster too no? You can see how favoring this for just one type of weapon user is unbalanced?
Most shield infantry have access to a throwing weapon, preserving this for when a unshielded opponent attempts to flee or disengage is a crucial aspect of resource management. Furthermore, mutliple opponents are far easier to fight when you have a shield, I imagine higher movement speed for two-handers negates this disadvantage somewhat.

  • Actually many would agree shields are far too durable right now. Two guys with a shield fighting against each other, that know what they are doing... can go on forever. Only once the shields break do you actually see some ground gained.

The fix should not be blowing up shields. How about allowing button taps for weaker, but much faster swings to beat blocks, and stagger to then hit again, and holding the button for the current slow power swings. (I may have a separate post about weapon swinging that I did not want to include here...I think it will help with the long duels). Increasing the forward movement when shields are up, slow backpedaling, more flanking…might make for better combat? Increase combative(s), not bad mechanics imo.

I am not to good at the open wild swinging chaos out there on the servers, but I can hold my own when I isolate any fighter one-on-one (I pulled off some cool kills, which felt so much better than spin-to-win). I have also been in a couple long flights, and still killed them, it took a while, but I eventually caught them…and that felt epic and felt legitimately like I was sparring someone in RL, waiting for them to make a mistake or out provoke/feint them. I have died in those many times too; when I die in a good duel, I am often impressed by the other person or I know I dropped my shield a little to early, or did something wrong combatively. Unlike when a two-hander hits the side of my shoulder, when I have my shield up, when I cannot close the distance, and somehow it registers a shoulder hit for 147 damage…and it happens like that 10 times in a row, but from slightly different angles...
Your swing has three attack stages. The first is quickest when you first release, little velocity has been generated and thus hits to the head/neck are recommended to deal significant damage. The middle of your swing is the damage dealer, when opportunity presents itself centre your opponent for maximum damage. The final stage of the swing is the longest to get to and weakest, rarely used but can catch your opponents block dropping to set up for another attack.

The best counter to backpedalling is kicking, although you require a tall character to have the leg reach, you can kick someone as they move away from you, opening them for a free high-damage hit. This is especially applicable to slower moving classes with shield access, like the Vlandian Sharpshooter for example.

  • Another one that I feel spears are in a perfect spot right now, they work nicely as a support weapon and if you could use them close up then it would be impossible to punish spearmen for being over aggressive in a groupfight. Right now I can feint an attack and then rush the spearman down in a 1v2, with this suggestion it would be hard because he would be able to fight back instead of holding his shield.

What you like here, you do not like for two-handed weapons you just mentioned above? You will allow for rushing/hugging spear users, but not axe wielders? Spears are not support weapons (someone else said this in this thread too…). They are main weapons and sidearms are support weapons. I think people have that backwards due to pop culture and movies. Spears are deadly; if I was forced to only ever use one weapon...ever, I would grab a spear. You can use them at length, in close, and you can slide the shaft (get your mind out of the gutter) in your hand to deceive the weapon's measure to hit. Pretty much the only defense against them is to rush into very close distances, and I mean grappling distances. One can try to the inside of the spear to get a quick hit in, if you try anything while it moves to far backwards, like you can in this game, it will be bad news, because spears can change to forward motion in an instance (they do that way to slow in this game). Maybe just speeding up that transition for spears backwards to forwards in this game, and still allowing the rush in as a defense might create the balance needed? One can rush in, but if you mistime it you will get counter stabbed much easier.

I agree, this is far from reality in general, why not add something to counter or improve that vs making the counters/defense farther from?
Historically the spear is the ultimate ancient weapon. It is cheap, easy to use and keeps the enemy a good two metres from you.

But formation is their strength, a spearman can stab a guy three ranks down the formation, whilst a swordsmen can only strike to their immediate surroundings. A spearman three blokes over is more likely to be your killer, than the man standing in front of you.

Similarly in game, a spear should be used to strike distracted opponents not the one's looking right a you. If an opponent attempts to close the distance, kicking or shield-bashing can effectively delay them but draw time for a secondary weapon is so fast already I imagine you can simply weapon switch.
 

Mabons

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Some more points for you:

So running backward and twirling around like idiots is good, and unrealistically be able to out run people moving backwards is good? I know you prob do not think that. In reality two handed weapons can be used at close range, longsword just go half-sword, and axes you just choke up on the weapon with the top hand, an use smaller motions. How about like I mentioned with spears, making the alternate function button switching grips for close combat on two-handers too? Maybe something to test in beta? Much better solution than defying reality moving backwards. Another point would be if two-handed users get to move backwards so fast to counter huggers, why not everyone else? Everyone should be able to get out of the range of axes and mavs faster too no? You can see how favoring this for just one type of weapon user is unbalanced?
First of all, no it's no realistic and as someone who practicises HEMA you probably know better than even I do that literally none of the game is truly realistic. It's a game with grounded gameplay. And yes, you can use 2 handed at close range, but we have a "realistic" block delay that prevents you from blocking fast with a heavy weapon. This means you have to use movement to keep away and give yourself more time to block. And everyone can dodge, just 2 handed classes have it easier.

FYI I hate how easy it is for those guys to literally spend their time in a melee spinning and running away and hitting people with the start of their swing too, but that is fixed by making the swing arcs more accurate instead of what we have now.

The fix should not be blowing up shields. How about allowing button taps for weaker, but much faster swings to beat blocks, and stagger to then hit again, and holding the button for the current slow power swings. (I may have a separate post about weapon swinging that I did not want to include here...I think it will help with the long duels). Increasing the forward movement when shields are up, slow backpedaling, more flanking…might make for better combat? Increase combative(s), not bad mechanics imo.

I am not to good at the open wild swinging chaos out there on the servers, but I can hold my own when I isolate any fighter one-on-one (I pulled off some cool kills, which felt so much better than spin-to-win). I have also been in a couple long flights, and still killed them, it took a while, but I eventually caught them…and that felt epic and felt legitimately like I was sparring someone in RL, waiting for them to make a mistake or out provoke/feint them. I have died in those many times too; when I die in a good duel, I am often impressed by the other person or I know I dropped my shield a little to early, or did something wrong combatively. Unlike when a two-hander hits the side of my shoulder, when I have my shield up, when I cannot close the distance, and somehow it registers a shoulder hit for 147 damage…and it happens like that 10 times in a row, but from slightly different angles...
We already have "quick" attacks, and "held" attacks. Tapping the attack will give you a quick attack, holding it will hold the attack for a more powerful strike. If you slow backpedalling anymore it will mean that people will literally just move forward and circle the opponent constantly instead of creating a back and forth step in step out fight. (Which already kind of happens because of how slidey the movement feels)

At the end of the day, you have a shield which doesn't require manual blocking, they have to manually block, the person who has it easier is you. If you remove their ability to create space between you, the tanky shield player and them, the glass cannon, then it becomes way too easy to kill them.

What you like here, you do not like for two-handed weapons you just mentioned above? You will allow for rushing/hugging spear users, but not axe wielders? Spears are not support weapons (someone else said this in this thread too…). They are main weapons and sidearms are support weapons. I think people have that backwards due to pop culture and movies. Spears are deadly; if I was forced to only ever use one weapon...ever, I would grab a spear. You can use them at length, in close, and you can slide the shaft (get your mind out of the gutter) in your hand to deceive the weapon's measure to hit. Pretty much the only defense against them is to rush into very close distances, and I mean grappling distances. One can try to the inside of the spear to get a quick hit in, if you try anything while it moves to far backwards, like you can in this game, it will be bad news, because spears can change to forward motion in an instance (they do that way to slow in this game). Maybe just speeding up that transition for spears backwards to forwards in this game, and still allowing the rush in as a defense might create the balance needed? One can rush in, but if you mistime it you will get counter stabbed much easier.

I agree, this is far from reality in general, why not add something to counter or improve that vs making the counters/defense farther from?
We had spears function like this in the beta: They did their damage instantly, no matter what time in the animation it hits someone. It used to do 1.5 x damage to the head which enabled a proper spear strike to one shot. Combine all this with the ability to use a shield and it got absolutely ridiculous, no one could use anything except spears unless they wanted to troll. They fixed them now to be far more risky to use, but they still absolutely destroy people in 2v1s or even those who are pretty poor at timing their blocks. If you like add me on steam and I will show you in the duel server how to make use of the spears, and you'll destroy all the 2handed spammers in TDM.
 

Colleptic

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We had spears function like this in the beta: They did their damage instantly, no matter what time in the animation it hits someone. It used to do 1.5 x damage to the head which enabled a proper spear strike to one shot. Combine all this with the ability to use a shield and it got absolutely ridiculous, no one could use anything except spears unless they wanted to troll. They fixed them now to be far more risky to use, but they still absolutely destroy people in 2v1s or even those who are pretty poor at timing their blocks. If you like add me on steam and I will show you in the duel server how to make use of the spears, and you'll destroy all the 2handed spammers in TDM.
It seems, based upon what you typed, they went too far with the spears nerf, 1.5x to the head would be OP yes, but they must have went too far with the rest of the mechanics. There must be a middle ground for them. Just FYI, I use them more than most out there, mainly because I stay away from using the two-handers, because they are too easy, and trying to time a charging horse is fun.