Much needed game suggestion - defeated kingdoms

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Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
I agree, IMO they need to
1 not be allowed to hire a disproportionate amount of mercenaries, they're for everyone, the worst factions getting 8 of them is stupid.
2 Have far less money and be punished for not paying all expenses day to day, especially the merc payments. Can't pay= Go away! As is, they have too much hidden money and other cheats (intentional or bugs) so they never are motivated to change factions.
3 They need to defect to the players faction equally or by an equal mechanic as the AI. This means if AI gets them instantly for free, the player gets them instantly for free too. Tw has a horrible design of making the player spend days of campaign time to obtain something the AI is given instantly, remotely and at no cost.
4 remove any recruitment calculations that change based on how many clans a factions has and/or any cap put in by TW. IF the player wants to legitimately recruit every clan (or most) they should be able too. If not they have no purpose in the game. As id the recruitment calculation becomes unreasonable for normal play once a certain amount of clans join the players faction.
5 Some way for unrecruited, unwanted and persistently defeated clan and factions to actually be removed form the game so that in a very long game there doesn't become state that causes problems because of too many parties.
6 Making peace with feif less faction should be solely to the player as a ruler. As is vassals constantly waste influence voting to make peace with defeated factions, letting out dozens of prisoners who then recruit all of your own troops and attack you again.

As is though, defeated faction mostly become a loot delivery service for you vassal clans as they will catch most of them often enough to get rich off of it.
However it takes too long for them to get to this point.

lords defect after a while so there a just a few left already.
DO you know what versions and how many days you had for clans to defect? In the recent versions I had not a single clan change factions by the time the map was complete. I think they simply have too much resources (or cheats/ignored mechanics) to run out of money in a timeframe that fits the game. I know TW has said they should run out and defect, but if it doesn't happen in the time it takes to paint the map, it's not a functioning mechanic.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
...think it should probably be fine if:

1. mercs are made to refuse offer to join fallen kingdoms
2. clans jumping ship reverted to the old crazy rate of defections just for fallen kingdoms

Fallen kingdoms should be essentially running on a situational 'timer' of sorts, and things should be arranged so that naturally 'die out' around after 5~10 years if they fail to recover any land.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
...think it should probably be fine if:

1. mercs are made to refuse offer to join fallen kingdoms
2. clans jumping ship reverted to the old crazy rate of defections just for fallen kingdoms

Fallen kingdoms should be essentially running on a situational 'timer' of sorts, and things should be arranged so that naturally 'die out' around after 5~10 years if they fail to recover any land.
That's a long long time of getting your fiefs raided over and over by dudes who get free money to recruit troops and demand tribute to make peace. Instead of 5-10 years it should be 1 year at the absolute most.
 

Goyyyio

Sergeant
Because the game is made to "have a ****load of troops and kill everyone by mass force" the only way you can survive in this game is by having a stupid amount of troops and mercenary. If this game was based in strategic decisions and actually required thinking it would be another case, but right now this is the only solution they had to make factions present a "threat"
 

Altissimus

Recruit
The option to "instantly eliminate the kingdoms" isn't popular - I get that.

But their economy definitely needs to be re-worked so that they erode over time if they can't recover...

...just like us.
 
A solution to this would be to remove all forms of AI cheating if the faction has no towns or castles left. No more spawning with free troops, no more free money, no more cavalry upgrades when they don't even have the horses, no more hiring all the merc clans when they blatantly shouldn't be able to afford them. When poor with no fiefs they should be much more willing to join other factions, and the idea of them being able to become merc clans is a good one.

These three things combined would solve this issue in completely organic, non-forced/artificial way. Which means it won't happen because TW are a bit allergic to good design decisions like this for some reason 🙃
 

Ereinion

Sergeant at Arms
WB
Why not just make the same as warband :

If the faction has no fief for an amount of time, like 1 week, then the faction is destroyed, all lords will join another faction with the best opinion about them, and we're good. It's better than having zombie faction with lords full of recruit wandering around.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
That's a long long time of getting your fiefs raided over and over by dudes who get free money to recruit troops and demand tribute to make peace. Instead of 5-10 years it should be 1 year at the absolute most.

How much do you want things to be dumbed down?
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
A solution to this would be to remove all forms of AI cheating if the faction has no towns or castles left. No more spawning with free troops, no more free money, no more cavalry upgrades when they don't even have the horses, no more hiring all the merc clans when they blatantly shouldn't be able to afford them. When poor with no fiefs they should be much more willing to join other factions, and the idea of them being able to become merc clans is a good one.

These three things combined would solve this issue in completely organic, non-forced/artificial way. Which means it won't happen because TW are a bit allergic to good design decisions like this for some reason 🙃
The problem is they also get a lot of free money from tribute still. Other factions think they are winning because they are raiding them and have a higher clan:fief ratio so they pay them for peace.
How much do you want things to be dumbed down?
What an odd statement. How is wanting minor annoyances to be removed "dumbing down" the game?

If anything it would make the game less dumb by reducing the period of time where I am fighting unchallenging chore-like enemies if I don't want my fiefs to get raided.
 
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Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
How much do you want things to be dumbed down?
There's nothing clever or interesting going on with this mechanic at present.

They just left it in there on the (completely hypothetical) idea that maybe if these dead factions get enough money and mercs, they'll be able to take a settlement and recover. That isn't how Bannerlord's campaign plays out though, so we're not losing anything by making dead factions actually die.
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
If the defeated kingdom/clans had an actual purpose or chance of coming back (even absent player intervention) to add another angle of intriguing gameplays/playthroughs, keep them in. As it is, they don't do anything and just spawn repeatedly (not a threat) but also somehow can declare war on a kingdom 10x their size and get a tribute/peace after?

Have them degrade after whatever X amount of time or if a rebellion in one of their original towns spawns up have them ally with them to act as if they 'created' that rebellion as the underdogs. Also gives them a sort of 'home base' as a lot of the clans in defeated kingdoms roam in the most random places and all over the place so again, no chance of even creating a minor army of any sort.
 
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