[MP/SP] Dynamic Blocking Debate

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

There is a bit of light for this thread callum did take a look at this thread for around 10-15 minutes a few hours back

 

[Cowbbebop]

I prefer current system much more. You are just exchanging one limitation (need to release button before blocking in to another direction) for another one (having to limit your movement by the direction you're blocking). Frankly later is much worst in my opinion as it limits what you can do in combat while the current mechanics does not.

Of course if it was only an optional feature that you can turn on or off like current autoblocking, why not. How it would work in a MP, to have two different blocking mechanics that could potentially lead in to exploits, I don't know.

That said I would much more prefer if devs improve combat AI instead of adding more mechanics to the combat that can potentially make AI even less competent. Right now AI does not block much at all and is very easy to exploit once you have bit of experience. I would prefer if AI was capable of blocking more consistently and fighting AI with equal skill to mine would be more equal match.

+1
So much thing to polish first.

 

[Revverie]

I prefer current system much more. You are just exchanging one limitation (need to release button before blocking in to another direction) for another one (having to limit your movement by the direction you're blocking). Frankly later is much worst in my opinion as it limits what you can do in combat while the current mechanics does not.

Of course if it was only an optional feature that you can turn on or off like current autoblocking, why not. How it would work in a MP, to have two different blocking mechanics that could potentially lead in to exploits, I don't know.

That said I would much more prefer if devs improve combat AI instead of adding more mechanics to the combat that can potentially make AI even less competent. Right now AI does not block much at all and is very easy to exploit once you have bit of experience. I would prefer if AI was capable of blocking more consistently and fighting AI with equal skill to mine would be more equal match.

+1 Sorry Terco this seems overly complicated and I prefer what we have now, with overhauls obviously, I really dont see a problem with the current system. Also, this would be very odd to see in multiplayer, I would like to see it tested, but for me it would be worse

 

[Terco_Viejo]

+1 Sorry Terco this seems overly complicated and I prefer what we have now, with overhauls obviously, I really dont see a problem with the current system. Also, this would be very odd to see in multiplayer, I would like to see it tested, but for me it would be worse

No problem but let me redirect you to this comment of mine from page #2 where through a couple of videos I show "a simulation" of how this "system" would work with the simultaneous combination of 2 keys.

I don't see a major complication with this; you would have both possibilities in one .

 

[Revverie]

No problem but let me redirect you to this comment of mine from page #2 where through a couple of videos I show "a simulation" of how this "system" would work with the simultaneous combination of 2 keys.

I don't see a major complication with this; you would have both possibilities in one .

I guess if we have the option to choose, it means we have more ways to play the game. Can't agree with that! Maybe if I try it I end up liking it

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I guess if we have the option to choose, it means we have more ways to play the game. Can't agree with that! Maybe if I try it I end up liking it

Well, technically to try it you just have to download the mod. In the settings menu rebind the function "fluid block" with the Ctrl key for example and you will be able to have a wider idea of what is being suggested here. The thing is that instead of those separate keys, the same "fluid block" function comes from the LMB+RMB key combination.
(Link to Fluid Blocking mod)

 

[Hulagu]

Looks beautiful and one of the best mod in terms of enhancing game quality, I would like to see it as official uptade, it would definetly made MP battles more fun for everyone

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

That's right, but with a quick footwork and stop blocking you can center your guard and your position in relation to your opponent. To me the sensations with "that system activated" are very similar to this but with the directional aspect.



I hope you guys can test this mod by yourselves and then come and comment here. Of course, I would love to test this system against a human instead of a bot.

an epic game to add even if i was more of an Kotor fan ( of which shouldn't be implemented ofc)

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Looks beautiful and one of the best mod in terms of enhancing game quality, I would like to see it as official uptade, it would definetly made MP battles more fun for everyone

As we cannot test this fluid blocking system in an MP environment, I have decided to test it with the help of the Improved Combat AI mod which allows you to maximize the capabilities of the AI. The test with the AI at max melee level (100), could perfectly be a simulation of a combat with an intermediate user in an MP environment.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This new video (*and last test) In continuity with the two previous ones; is the combination of an All in one:

Default blocking + Fluid Blocking + Shield Equity in a 1 vs 3 combat (1 archer + 2 infantry with a melee AI defined at 100) to test these systems in a scenario as realistic as possible (excuse my humble skills).

In this test you will be able to observe in an explicit way the alternation between the two blocking systems (both the native default and the fluid one simulating the concept of multiple key pressing LMB+RMB previously commented) all this with the possibility which shield equity provides, giving all the shields the same manoeuvrability as the round Sturgian shields.



After this test, I don't think I can show anything more than what I have already shown ... yes, I have been a pain with this . However, I really have been because I see a lot of potential in this and I think the two systems can coexist perfectly to widen the range of possibilities for each player's playable experience in the combat system (MP&SP).

The last thing I can do is to "burn one's boats" and end the party with fireworks; so I'm going to tag some illustrious veterans (excuse me if I forget some) and a couple of devs. I wish they could hare their feeling and opinion about the published video test and the general thread concept by voting/comment.
@Silen Charlini @Gibby Jr @LeRoux Fietta Ciiges Shemaforash Maximou ? M Reapy Sundeki Kripazsleepy dragon RalliX Maroon AoC Killfacer Marko͘ Varadin OurGloriousLeade @NIN3 @RubbingMyAxe @AVRC

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I have edited the first message and removed the first (redundant) videos. This is a test (Fluid blocking + shield equity) so you can see which keys are pressed at each moment; this would make the concept much clearer. Since I have not been able to set up a multiple key binding for a function, the main keys are presented as follows:

LMB= attack
RMB= Fluid blocking
Central mouse button =default blocking
(if multiple bindings were possible, the concept would be) LMB+RMB=default blocking

Spoiler

I swear this is the last video.
By the way, all these videos are hidden, I don't intend to become a youtuber.

 

[FBohler]

I have edited the first message and removed the first (redundant) videos. This is a test (Fluid blocking + shield equity) so you can see which keys are pressed at each moment; this would make the concept much clearer. Since I have not been able to set up a multiple key binding for a function, the main keys are presented as follows:

LMB= attack
RMB= Fluid blocking
Central mouse button =default blocking
(if multiple bindings were possible, the concept would be) LMB+RMB=default blocking

Spoiler

I swear this is the last video.
By the way, all these videos are hidden, I don't intend to become a youtuber.

I 100% support the system as described. It would enable for far more fluid gameplay IMO.

 

[Androme1]

I'm sure it's a sensible and good suggestion as always Terco, but there's more important things to focus on right now. Such as the fact that the game is completely barebones with no content in it.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

+1 to this great idea.

 

[Hulagu]

Spoiler

As we cannot test this fluid blocking system in an MP environment, I have decided to test it with the help of the Improved Combat AI mod which allows you to maximize the capabilities of the AI. The test with the AI at max melee level (100), could perfectly be a simulation of a combat with an intermediate user in an MP environment.

Good job, it looks stunning, I already felt the smoothness and exicement in the combat, let hope this mod take attention of the developers

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Good job, it looks stunning, I already felt the smoothness and exicement in the combat, let hope this mod take attention of the developers

Let's cross our fingers.
I have already promised not to bother with any more videos... I must say goodbye to this thread as Rose did with Jack in Titanic...

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I think this kind of showcases why the problem with the shield blocking direction isn't fixed by this, as you can see even with relatively minor movements the shield's position changes quite dramatically, as it's swapping from left block to right block or whatever. The problem with the shields and blocking direction currently is that it's difficult to provide proper coverage of the body in an intuitive manner due to these exaggerated positions - having it do so dynamically doesn't really fix this if you're in the heat of combat trying to turn in multiple directions with your shield constantly flipping from side to side.

Again dynamic blocking seems totally fine to have as an option for preference, but I think if we want to solve the shield issue we need to look at making the shield more subtle and static in its coverage, maintaining a central position with only slight movements up/down and left/right as per Warband.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I think this kind of showcases why the problem with the shield blocking direction isn't fixed by this, as you can see even with relatively minor movements the shield's position changes quite dramatically, as it's swapping from left block to right block or whatever. The problem with the shields and blocking direction currently is that it's difficult to provide proper coverage of the body in an intuitive manner due to these exaggerated positions - having it do so dynamically doesn't really fix this if you're in the heat of combat trying to turn in multiple directions with your shield constantly flipping from side to side.

Again dynamic blocking seems totally fine to have as an option for preference, but I think if we want to solve the shield issue we need to look at making the shield more subtle and static in its coverage, maintaining a central position with only slight movements up/down and left/right as per Warband.

You would have both integrated with this system...


With the hypothetical option button in settings ( toggle on or off fluid blocking ) you would decide which is the primary blocking and which is the secondary blocking, having both available at all times. I think the directional block in Bannerlord is a good addition, I only say to give it a little more importance what it would take to extend the skill ceiling by blocking control + footwork.
If you can extend the parry/blocking beyond what is currently defined, you gain ground against the kinetics of the enemy's strike.It should not have the same damage, a blocked hit above the head (see shield equity) as in a position deflecting from the face for either a 1h, 2h or shield.

I'm not just talking about using shields OGL , have you seen the videos bottom for 2h-1h (please, check them)? If you try the fluid system you will not return to the default...

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I've played with it before and I hate it, but like I say, fine for an option. Just want to emphasise the shield discussion is a different issue.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I've played with it before and I hate it, but like I say, fine for an option. Just want to emphasise the shield discussion is a different issue.

+ 1 For at least having tried it