Mouse directional input "delayed".

[SigilFey]

This is a bit difficult to explain, but I'll see if I can make it clear. Lengthy, but I want to be thorough:

Been playing Mount & Blade since it was released. Played the original vanilla, with mods, then Warband, and Fire and Sword. Very familiar with how everything works in combat. Decided to practice chamber blocking for a while in the Training Grounds. It was only then that I noticed something weird about the way the mouse was responding.

I normally play without the directional indicators, but I turned them on here, just to be sure. Basically, when the player character is blocked or struck, there will be a "flinch", as always, in which they cannot block or attack. This is normal. What seems to be new is that, now, the game stops responding to inputs during this time, as well. Obviously, I won't be able to actually begin my swing or block (meaning begin the animation) while I'm still in that brief moment of "recoiling", but the game is not even allowing me to change direction with the mouse to get ready for the next attack / block.

So, for example:

1. I move into range and deliver an overhand chop to the NPC. He blocks the attack.
2. I recoil a bit from striking the shield. During which time, the NPC winds up for a fore-hand swing.
3. I move my mouse left and hold the RMB to block that.
4. ...the game doesn't respond. The directional indicator remains 'up'...not 'left'. When my character finally executes the block, it's an UPPER block, not a left block.

In order to block to the left, like I want to, I need to wait until the "recoil" is completely exhausted before I'm forced to quickly track the mouse left, and this often is not fast enough to actually raise a block in time. With shields, this is no big issue. While trying to block and attack with a weapon (particularly slower, two-handed weapons), this is very frustrating, and it feels kind of cheap -- especially since prior M&B games would certainly allow for players to get ready for such attacks, then simply time their click-and-release patterns.

The problem is even more pronounced if the player character is struck. The complete lack of mouse input for that longer delay during the "stagger" animation means that it's now utterly impossible to defend against follow-up attacks from an opponent, as there's no way to wait for the recoil cooldown, then move the mouse, and then wait for the player character to begin the animation -- *whack*...the player is hit again.

I won't even begin to highlight how utterly frustrating this is while trying to chamber block. Not sure if that's why it was handled this way (to prevent people from going into long strings of chamber blocks), but it's creating a rather unbalanced scenario against AI opponents (at least if the difficulty is set to "Good"). Now, granted, I'm a bit rusty anyway, so I was not doing so hot even when I was landing them...but this stood out to me immediately.

Shifting gears, I picked up the two-handed sword and tried just standard blocking again. Much, much more manageable, as long as I went on complete defensive after taking a blow...but it seems like it's sort of defeating the purpose of having chamber blocking in the game to begin with. At best, I can pull off only one or two in a row before the NPC will block me...and I loose my ability to input direction and ensure my next attack is set up.

I assume it may also affect "standard" combat blocking more than I think, especially considering how difficult it is to manage both directional attacking and defending until new players are used to the system.

TL;DR --
Well, first go back and at least skim it, it's hard to explain. But, in brief, I'd request that directional mouse input remain responsive when the character is "staggered". Even if the attack / defense animations are delayed, do not delay the directional input.

 

[SigilFey]

Title edited --

No one else is noticing this? Did I start going crazy? It's happened before. But I tested this repeatedly; it's definitely happening on my end.

 

[Sepone]

Just a suggestion, but maybe your problem has nothing to do with the block-stun effect. Others are experiencing mouse lags at random while playing the game. See here:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/g700s-mouse-creates-input-lag.395627/
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mouse-lag.395034/
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mouse-input-lag.408014/

[EDIT]: What solved the problem for me was this:

Changed PERFORMANCE settings:
Shadow Quality: Low
Shadow Type: None
Shadow Filtering: None
Particle Detail: Low
Particle Quality: Low

Changed VIDEO settings:
Display Mode: Fullscreen (changed from Borderless)

You should try it out, and if the problem persists it is the block-stun effect that's making trouble. If not, have fun!

 

[SigilFey]

Just a suggestion, but maybe your problem has nothing to do with the block-stun effect. Others are experiencing mouse lags at random while playing the game. See here:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/g700s-mouse-creates-input-lag.395627/
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mouse-lag.395034/
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mouse-input-lag.408014/

[EDIT]: What solved the problem for me was this:

Changed PERFORMANCE settings:
Shadow Quality: Low
Shadow Type: None
Shadow Filtering: None
Particle Detail: Low
Particle Quality: Low

Changed VIDEO settings:
Display Mode: Fullscreen (changed from Borderless)

You should try it out, and if the problem persists it is the block-stun effect that's making trouble. If not, have fun!

I actually tried a series of different configs first to ensure I wasn't seeing something hardware / performance related. It's not that. I'm not getting any delay on input at any time other than when the character is struck / blocked. It simply seems that the engine is ignoring all inputs during that short 0.5 second period. And for a game that requires such precise reaction times on top of having weapons move at variable speeds based on their size, weight, and the player's skill with them, it's very possible to get into a situation where a player can become stun-locked by another character using a smaller, faster weapon.

Compound that with NPCs very clearly "cheating" themselves blocks where they should not be able to, or the game sometimes "whiffing" a player's strike with 2-H weapons, and combat is very cheap at times. (I've had this happen repeatedly in the Training Grounds -- I'll swing the 2-H sword at the rookie trainer, as he's swinging his 1-H Sword. My swing will pass right through the character model, but his swing with the 1-H sword will strike me.) None of this is regular enough of to make the game unplayable, and it seems to become less common the more you level up the player character's skills, but I'd much prefer the combat to be like it was in prior games. Direction input always active, stagger delaying only movement and attack / defense wind-ups.

 

[darksoulshin]

you are not crazy.
there is a delay in all attacks.
Once the button is released, the attack does not start immediately, but there is an animation of further preparation of the attack (even if the button is released) and only after this animation, lasting about 0.3-0.4 seconds, the attack actually starts.
In my opinion they should eliminate this delay or reduce it drastically and try to balance the game in another way.
The delay is also in the block.
It should also be reduced dramatically.
Not completely removed, but reduced to being 10% of what it is at the moment.

 

[SigilFey]

you are not crazy.
there is a delay in all attacks.
Once the button is released, the attack does not start immediately, but there is an animation of further preparation of the attack (even if the button is released) and only after this animation, lasting about 0.3-0.4 seconds, the attack actually starts.
In my opinion they should eliminate this delay or reduce it drastically and try to balance the game in another way.
The delay is also in the block.
It should also be reduced dramatically.
Not completely removed, but reduced to being 10% of what it is at the moment.

Thanks for responding! But that's not what I'm referring to.

What you're talking about is each weapon's "Handling" stat. The bigger, heavier, or more crude the weapon is (its balance mostly), is then combined with your character's skill with that weapon style. That will determine exactly how quickly you'll be able to ready and swing a weapon, shift directions to feint, raise a block, etc. I'd hate to see that go, as it would take away a lot of the feeling of getting better with certain weapon styles.

What I'm trying to address is the issue of the game failing to register directional input. When I move my mouse while in that brief stagger period, the game does not recognize the input. I need to wait until the stagger wears off for the mouse movement to be registered by the directional indicators. So, while I can still look left with the mouse while I'm being staggered, the directional indicator will not become left. I need to move the mouse again after it wears off. (That's what's making both blocking enemy follow-up attacks and trying to effectively chamber block extraordinarily hard at times. Sometimes, just completely impossible, as the animation for the opponent's follow-up attack will begin before I can register the directional change, and there's no way to do it. I'm forced to take the next hit, as either attacking or blocking will remain locked in the direction I had selected before I was staggered.)

In the past, when I moved the mouse while being staggered, it would register the directional change. I simply needed to wait for the stagger to wear off before I could actually swing or block. I'd very much like that to go back to the way it was. I feel that the combat is both fast and difficult enough that players should not be prevented from setting up their next move in addition to everything else being delayed upon being blocked or struck.

Technically, it doesn't really make sense to have the directional input be delayed, as that's effectively preventing your character from thinking about what they need to do next. I've been knocked around in real-life. I've never been hit so hard that my mind went blank, and I stared blindly at another swing coming my way, needing to wait for an additional 0.5 seconds to regain the ability to tell left from right, only to have my body move completely the wrong way on its own.

 

[darksoulshin]

Thanks for responding! But that's not what I'm referring to.

What you're talking about is each weapon's "Handling" stat. The bigger, heavier, or more crude the weapon is (its balance mostly), is then combined with your character's skill with that weapon style. That will determine exactly how quickly you'll be able to ready and swing a weapon, shift directions to feint, raise a block, etc. I'd hate to see that go, as it would take away a lot of the feeling of getting better with certain weapon styles.

What I'm trying to address is the issue of the game failing to register directional input. When I move my mouse while in that brief stagger period, the game does not recognize the input. I need to wait until the stagger wears off for the mouse movement to be registered by the directional indicators. So, while I can still look left with the mouse while I'm being staggered, the directional indicator will not become left. I need to move the mouse again after it wears off. (That's what's making both blocking enemy follow-up attacks and trying to effectively chamber block extraordinarily hard at times. Sometimes, just completely impossible, as the animation for the opponent's follow-up attack will begin before I can register the directional change, and there's no way to do it. I'm forced to take the next hit, as either attacking or blocking will remain locked in the direction I had selected before I was staggered.)

In the past, when I moved the mouse while being staggered, it would register the directional change. I simply needed to wait for the stagger to wear off before I could actually swing or block. I'd very much like that to go back to the way it was. I feel that the combat is both fast and difficult enough that players should not be prevented from setting up their next move in addition to everything else being delayed upon being blocked or struck.

Technically, it doesn't really make sense to have the directional input be delayed, as that's effectively preventing your character from thinking about what they need to do next. I've been knocked around in real-life. I've never been hit so hard that my mind went blank, and I stared blindly at another swing coming my way, needing to wait for an additional 0.5 seconds to regain the ability to tell left from right, only to have my body move completely the wrong way on its own.

In the game, in the options, under the sensitivity adjustment option, there is a second bar with a number that regulates the ratio between what a mouse movement must be perceived as "vertical" compared to "horizontal" .
for example, if it were set to the maximum, even if you moved the mouse in a direction at 45 degrees from the horizontal axis, the movement would be traced as if it were vertical.
Vice versa, if it were set to the minimum, the same type of movement would be considered vertical.
If the mouse can move in 4 arcs of 90 degrees each (therefore a cross rotated 45 degrees), then the numerical value of this option changes the angle of these arcs.
If set to 1 I assume that the angles all remain 90 degrees.
if greater than 1, then the upper and lower arcs become greater than 90 degrees and clearly the right and left arcs have a smaller angle.
On the other hand, if the set value is less than 1, the opposite occurs.
Modify this numerical value and do various tests until you see that it is fine.

If this does not help, then if your mouse is equipped with software for customizing the settings, look for the POLLING RATE option or any option that is inherent in the frequency with which your mouse is "tracked".
Increase the frequency and see if anything changes.
Clearly the more you increase the frequency, the greater the CPU work to track the position and movements of the mouse in smaller time intervals (therefore more frequently).

If that doesn't work too, then it's a bug.

 

[SigilFey]

In the game, in the options, under the sensitivity adjustment option, there is a second bar with a number that regulates the ratio between what a mouse movement must be perceived as "vertical" compared to "horizontal" .
for example, if it were set to the maximum, even if you moved the mouse in a direction at 45 degrees from the horizontal axis, the movement would be traced as if it were vertical.
Vice versa, if it were set to the minimum, the same type of movement would be considered vertical.
If the mouse can move in 4 arcs of 90 degrees each (therefore a cross rotated 45 degrees), then the numerical value of this option changes the angle of these arcs.
If set to 1 I assume that the angles all remain 90 degrees.
if greater than 1, then the upper and lower arcs become greater than 90 degrees and clearly the right and left arcs have a smaller angle.
On the other hand, if the set value is less than 1, the opposite occurs.
Modify this numerical value and do various tests until you see that it is fine.

If this does not help, then if your mouse is equipped with software for customizing the settings, look for the POLLING RATE option or any option that is inherent in the frequency with which your mouse is "tracked".
Increase the frequency and see if anything changes.
Clearly the more you increase the frequency, the greater the CPU work to track the position and movements of the mouse in smaller time intervals (therefore more frequently).

If that doesn't work too, then it's a bug.

I'm aware of all of those settings, but they have no bearing whatsoever on the situation. The directional input works perfectly fine as long as the character is not in that 0.3 - 0.5 second "staggered" state. The mouse-look continues to function just fine during the stagger. I can achieve any directional input I wish when I'm not staggered. No delay. No inaccuracy. It's not a settings thing, or any sort of hardware / driver hooking; it's a design choice, I believe.

I think someone decided that being struck or having your blow blocked should completely "freeze" all directional input for a short period. It happens with far too much consistent, re-creatable regularity for it to be a bug. I'm perfectly convinced it's by design.

Hence, I make the argument here to allow the game to register mouse directional input at all times. If I click-and-hold before the stagger wears off, that will successfully proc as soon as the stagger period ends. So, why then, does the game refuse to allow directional input during staggers? It's basically penalizing the player for paying attention to detail and playing smartly.

Thus, if I attack "high", and my swing is blocked and/or I'm struck, then I should be able to move the mouse during that short period to get ready for whatever the NPC is doing next. I should not have that directional input ignored by the game, so that my character will immediately block/attack "high" again, regardless of my input during the stagger. I should not have to intentionally stall my actions until the stagger period is done and purposefully expose my character to ensure the next directional input actually registers.

 

[darksoulshin]

I'm aware of all of those settings, but they have no bearing whatsoever on the situation. The directional input works perfectly fine as long as the character is not in that 0.3 - 0.5 second "staggered" state. The mouse-look continues to function just fine during the stagger. I can achieve any directional input I wish when I'm not staggered. No delay. No inaccuracy. It's not a settings thing, or any sort of hardware / driver hooking; it's a design choice, I believe.

I think someone decided that being struck or having your blow blocked should completely "freeze" all directional input for a short period. It happens with far too much consistent, re-creatable regularity for it to be a bug. I'm perfectly convinced it's by design.

Hence, I make the argument here to allow the game to register mouse directional input at all times. If I click-and-hold before the stagger wears off, that will successfully proc as soon as the stagger period ends. So, why then, does the game refuse to allow directional input during staggers? It's basically penalizing the player for paying attention to detail and playing smartly.

Thus, if I attack "high", and my swing is blocked and/or I'm struck, then I should be able to move the mouse during that short period to get ready for whatever the NPC is doing next. I should not have that directional input ignored by the game, so that my character will immediately block/attack "high" again, regardless of my input during the stagger. I should not have to intentionally stall my actions until the stagger period is done and purposefully expose my character to ensure the next directional input actually registers.

I understand, and by solution you would like to introduce a buffering mechanic for the last direction you use, so that you can act as soon as the stagger effect ends.
As a player I agree, but in theory it goes against the idea that the developer would have put behind this design choice, that is that even your timing in acting is spot on.
At most they(devs) could provide some audio-visual stimulus that allows you to understand when the "stag" is running out so that you can be prepared to press the keys at the right time, so that you have the opportunity not to waste time.

 

[SigilFey]

I understand, and by solution you would like to introduce a buffering mechanic for the last direction you use, so that you can act as soon as the stagger effect ends.
As a player I agree, but in theory it goes against the idea that the developer would have put behind this design choice, that is that even your timing in acting is spot on.
At most they(devs) could provide some audio-visual stimulus that allows you to understand when the "stag" is running out so that you can be prepared to press the keys at the right time, so that you have the opportunity not to waste time.

I don't think we need any additional indicators or anything -- it's too fast. We're talking fractions of a second. There's no cool-down bar or anything that would be on-screen long enough to be of any consequence.

What we need is for the game not to disable directional input during a stagger. Delay the proc of the next action. Delay the ability to move your feet. Delay the recovery of your character from flinching back to a ready stance.

Do NOT delay the player's inputs. Again:

• my mouse-look functions 100% normally while being staggered.
• my mouse-clicks (LMB or RMB) will immediately register, even if held while being staggered.
• my WASD keys (movement) will immediately register, even if held while being staggered.

So why does my directional input not register while being staggered, then immediately proc when the stagger ends? It is incredibly counter-intuitive, and rather self-defeating for a system that requires split-second timing to be effective. I call things like this "artificial" layers of difficulty. Rather than rewarding the player for smart, effective play, the game introduces barriers to ignore the player's smart, effective play.

 

[darksoulshin]

I don't think we need any additional indicators or anything -- it's too fast. We're talking fractions of a second. There's no cool-down bar or anything that would be on-screen long enough to be of any consequence.

What we need is for the game not to disable directional input during a stagger. Delay the proc of the next action. Delay the ability to move your feet. Delay the recovery of your character from flinching back to a ready stance.

Do NOT delay the player's inputs. Again:

• my mouse-look functions 100% normally while being staggered.
• my mouse-clicks (LMB or RMB) will immediately register, even if held while being staggered.
• my WASD keys (movement) will immediately register, even if held while being staggered.

So why does my directional input not register while being staggered, then immediately proc when the stagger ends? It is incredibly counter-intuitive, and rather self-defeating for a system that requires split-second timing to be effective. I call things like this "artificial" layers of difficulty. Rather than rewarding the player for smart, effective play, the game introduces barriers to ignore the player's smart, effective play.

I share your opinion on the merits.
I also would not like those delays, which I have described as artificial difficulties, asserting and demonstrating that they are not related to the inertia of the weapons (because of their mass).
So I think like you.
I just wanted to find a solution that didn't go directly against the will of the developers, therefore a point of synthesis.
But normally I would be of your own opinion.
Except that if you hit a rubber wall or go back or soften the rubber to get through it.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression of having misunderstood you or not sharing your reasonable objections.

 

[SigilFey]

I share your opinion on the merits.
I also would not like those delays, which I have described as artificial difficulties, asserting and demonstrating that they are not related to the inertia of the weapons (because of their mass).
So I think like you.
I just wanted to find a solution that didn't go directly against the will of the developers, therefore a point of synthesis.
But normally I would be of your own opinion.
Except that if you hit a rubber wall or go back or soften the rubber to get through it.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression of having misunderstood you or not sharing your reasonable objections.

Oh, I'm fine with anyone either agreeing or disagreeing. I'm sure there are many people out there who prefer it either way. I'm just not really understanding why it changed from the way it's always been in past games.

 

[SigilFey]

Just staying up on this -- not sure what changed, but e1.0.8 is MUCH better. I didn't try chamber blocking, but I played through about 10 Practice Melees, and things are much more responsive. (Won 4, too. Nice, extra thousand in the coffers. Bought some new arrows. ?)

There were only random instances where it seemed like mouse movement was ignored. The majority of my blocks were registering well in advance of the enemy actually beginning their swing, even after taking a hit. (Still went down fast when being simultaneously hit with a javelin and an arrow, while a third guy was in my face with an axe, but then...that's teamwork.)

 

[darksoulshin]

well, hopefully the next patches will improve the situation further

 

[SigilFey]

well, hopefully the next patches will improve the situation further

One can hope!

 

[SigilFey]

And, as of e1.0.9, the delay is back full-force. Too bad. I was managing to get into a groove on e1.0.8.

If this is not a design thing, I'll keep an eye on how things evolve over time. Last few battles I played, the directional input was extremely delayed when being blocked / staggered. (Still won around 5 melees and one tournament......but I couldn't be concerned less about "winning". I'm more concerned about the way the combat feels. Right now, it doesn't feel responsive or clean. [e1.0.8 was much, much better...however it's working.])

 

[DainMorgot]

This exists still today. Just necroing the thread to raise awareness.