Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

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Pilum

Sergeant Knight
VCNWWBWF&S
Captain Lust said:
You have to also bear in mind that it's not really in anyone's interests to go into too much detail, since this is still an in-development game and naturally subject to change, especially the smaller things. Whenever we mention anything, we like to be relatively sure it's going to be that way in the final release.

So there are more small details we don't know about yet, good to know I suppose.
 

Yabloko

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
How fast would a dismounted knight get tired? I wonder if the average soldier would get tired in the midst of a warband battle which basically amounts to a skirmish. In other words, is stamina inside or outside of the scope of bannerlord's fighting system?

And I wonder how would such a stamina mechanic work. I think it's reasonable to say that only missed attacks should contribute to stamina loss to avoid interrupting the flow of battle, and that stamina loss should not prevent new attacks, but rather make them slower or weaker to render spam less useful, but not useless.
 

๖Kern

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
The stamina would totally ruin the game, and you would lost even the last drops of hope we have for making this game e-sport.
 
[SPQR]Eduard said:
The stamina would totally ruin the game, and you would lost even the last drops of hope we have for making this game e-sport.
Personally, I agree about the stamina.  If I want Morrowind, I'll play Morrowind.  Eduard is correct about it not being applicable to an e-sport.
 

Klockis

Sergeant Knight
Yabloko said:
I'm not sure I'd want the game to become an e-sport. It usually results in a pretty toxic community.

The community is already pretty toxic, at least the competitive scene.
 
Yabloko said:
How fast would a dismounted knight get tired?

When you're trying to avoid dying adrenaline will override tiredness to an extent. Even so, soldiers would probably only fight for short <20 minute periods and then rest while other groups of soldiers fought in their place.
Primary sources suggest that towards the end of a long (i.e. days) battle, premodern soldiers would just be less inclined to re-enter the fray and just run away if challenged.

For the tiny little 5 minute battles of warband I don't really see stamina at any "scale" being significant. Maybe for horses, but even then the maps are so small that it isn't really needed. And I doubt they'll make all of the maps really large in bannerlord, otherwise horse archer cheese-kiting would be unbeatable.
 

DanAngleland

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
[SPQR]Eduard said:
The stamina would totally ruin the game, and you would lost even the last drops of hope we have for making this game e-sport.

...right, because that's what we're all hoping for. Besides, stamina would make Warband more watchable, if it discouraged excessive feinting and spamming from one direction- it is natural to swing from the other direction after a swing, because the weapon's momentum has carried it to the opposite side, so it is most comfortable and natural to follow a left swing with a right. A subtle reduction in speed and/or power of a swing if many consecutive feints or same direction swings had been done would not interrupt fighting at all, it would merely encourage less of this lazy, unrealistic and unappealing play. Yes, we can judge a feature by its relative realism in the game, despite the rest of the game not being perfectly realistic. Because numerous consecutive feints looks unrealistic, it looks bad and destroys immersion.

Whether this or any other idea makes the game better as an e-sport, I don't know, but frankly it doesn't interest me. What does interest me is making the gameplay better, and I certainly wouldn't rule out stamina or cooldowns being used for that. The way some people talk about it makes me think they have a vision of a very restrictive system, where your stamina bar runs out and you are suddenly feeble and as good as defenceless. Of course nobody wants that, and it doesn't have to be like that.
 
If cosmetics is what you're concerned about then the solution is just to make the animations blend better. In warband the animations are fully blended about 1/30 seconds after the input and the "contact" (high point) of the animation plays almost instantly. Even without excessive feinting in SP for example, this looks really weird.
 

kalarhan

Python Saint
Count
WBNWVCWF&S
DanAngleland said:
game better as an e-sport, I don't know, but frankly it doesn't interest me. What does interest me is making the gameplay better,

Mixing MP and SP when talking about mechanics and features is a recipe for disaster. One of them will be nerfed or will be left out to balance the other. I prefer SP to be its own thingy, and if devs want a e-sport MP they can make it more arcade, or whatever sells better, without influencing the campaign

SP != MP =>  :smile:  (happy face)
 
Stamina systems in every mod I've played have been nothing but stupid bull**** distractions and restrictions. You say you don't imagine a restritive system but if stamina isn'y influential then it's useless. Either way its better that it stays far far away from mount and blade.
 

HedgeKnight

Knight at Arms
WBVCNW
Đяαкøℵ said:
https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/16
mike56 said:
Captain Lust said:
We're currently preparing the blog, which should be out very soon, to summarise and clarify things that were shown.

9b5.jpg

Well, didn't take too long.
 

Satanica

Banned
WBVCNWWF&S
BY THE GODS
IT CAN'T BE
HAS THE TALEWORLDS CALENDAR LINED UP WITH OUR OWN?
APOCALYPSE
IT IS COMING
REVELATION ISAIAH 66:15-16
 

HedgeKnight

Knight at Arms
WBVCNW
YES! We get splitting formations (MUH FLANKING MANEUVERS!) and total wall destruction on the overworld map with an animated siege!!!!
 

๖Kern

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
DanAngleland said:
[SPQR]Eduard said:
The stamina would totally ruin the game, and you would lost even the last drops of hope we have for making this game e-sport.

...right, because that's what we're all hoping for. Besides, stamina would make Warband more watchable, if it discouraged excessive feinting and spamming from one direction- it is natural to swing from the other direction after a swing, because the weapon's momentum has carried it to the opposite side, so it is most comfortable and natural to follow a left swing with a right. A subtle reduction in speed and/or power of a swing if many consecutive feints or same direction swings had been done would not interrupt fighting at all, it would merely encourage less of this lazy, unrealistic and unappealing play. Yes, we can judge a feature by its relative realism in the game, despite the rest of the game not being perfectly realistic. Because numerous consecutive feints looks unrealistic, it looks bad and destroys immersion.

Whether this or any other idea makes the game better as an e-sport, I don't know, but frankly it doesn't interest me. What does interest me is making the gameplay better, and I certainly wouldn't rule out stamina or cooldowns being used for that. The way some people talk about it makes me think they have a vision of a very restrictive system, where your stamina bar runs out and you are suddenly feeble and as good as defenceless. Of course nobody wants that, and it doesn't have to be like that.

You still forget that the game is a "pre-sequel" of warband and sequel of M&B series and  stamina would be a drastic change to gameplay and game series. Stamina is something, that would ruin competitive play and even MP play in general. I am not hoping for Bannerlord to become an e-sport and sincerely, I don't mind at all. But competitive gameplay exists in warband from the the start and I enjoyed it together with MP.

How do I know that? Look at warband now... what do you think would happen if Developers add new stamina system?

Ton of shi* would happen. Gameplay would drastically change in some way and that's a thing you don't want to risk as a developer of the game, because only 3 things can happen. -
  • You end up with happy community that likes the stamina and only few people that dislikes it
  • You end up with community merged in half (30% of people would essentialy leave the game)
  • You end up with community that dislikes the stamina system and only few likes it.


I get it. You want more realistic gameplay. And I want competitive gameplay that won't be fu**ed by sh** like stamina.

No offense.

Also... I have to ask because I can't find any solution for this. How do you want to make that you won't be almost defenceless when your stamina rans out? I don't get it... Also how will stamina help you in case of left spam? You could essentially spam left attack until your stamina rans out ? Unless you want to make stamina system that would take half of the "bar" (or whatever) down.
 

LonelyStep

Sergeant
Đяαкøℵ said:
BY THE GODS
IT CAN'T BE
HAS THE TALEWORLDS CALENDAR LINED UP WITH OUR OWN?
APOCALYPSE
IT IS COMING
REVELATION ISAIAH 66:15-16

"For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many."

Huh, what do you know? It was an actual reference.
 
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