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Yabloko said:
When you're trying to avoid dying adrenaline will override tiredness to an extent. Even so, soldiers would probably only fight for short <20 minute periods and then rest while other groups of soldiers fought in their place.
Primary sources suggest that towards the end of a long (i.e. days) battle, premodern soldiers would just be less inclined to re-enter the fray and just run away if challenged.
For the tiny little 5 minute battles of warband I don't really see stamina at any "scale" being significant. Maybe for horses, but even then the maps are so small that it isn't really needed. And I doubt they'll make all of the maps really large in bannerlord, otherwise horse archer cheese-kiting would be unbeatable.
[SPQR]Eduard said:
...right, because that's what we're all hoping for. Besides, stamina would make Warband more watchable, if it discouraged excessive feinting and spamming from one direction- it is natural to swing from the other direction after a swing, because the weapon's momentum has carried it to the opposite side, so it is most comfortable and natural to follow a left swing with a right. A subtle reduction in speed and/or power of a swing if many consecutive feints or same direction swings had been done would not interrupt fighting at all, it would merely encourage less of this lazy, unrealistic and unappealing play. Yes, we can judge a feature by its relative realism in the game, despite the rest of the game not being perfectly realistic. Because numerous consecutive feints looks unrealistic, it looks bad and destroys immersion.
Whether this or any other idea makes the game better as an e-sport, I don't know, but frankly it doesn't interest me. What does interest me is making the gameplay better, and I certainly wouldn't rule out stamina or cooldowns being used for that. The way some people talk about it makes me think they have a vision of a very restrictive system, where your stamina bar runs out and you are suddenly feeble and as good as defenceless. Of course nobody wants that, and it doesn't have to be like that.
If cosmetics is what you're concerned about then the solution is just to make the animations blend better. In warband the animations are fully blended about 1/30 seconds after the input and the "contact" (high point) of the animation plays almost instantly. Even without excessive feinting in SP for example, this looks really weird.
DanAngleland said:
Mixing MP and SP when talking about mechanics and features is a recipe for disaster. One of them will be nerfed or will be left out to balance the other. I prefer SP to be its own thingy, and if devs want a e-sport MP they can make it more arcade, or whatever sells better, without influencing the campaign
SP != MP =>
(happy face)
Stamina systems in every mod I've played have been nothing but stupid bull**** distractions and restrictions. You say you don't imagine a restritive system but if stamina isn'y influential then it's useless. Either way its better that it stays far far away from mount and blade.
HedgeKnight
Knight at Arms
Đяαкøℵ said:
mike56 said:Captain Lust said:
Well, didn't take too long.
Apparently very soon really means very soon
HedgeKnight
Knight at Arms
YES! We get splitting formations (MUH FLANKING MANEUVERS!) and total wall destruction on the overworld map with an animated siege!!!!
DanAngleland said:
You still forget that the game is a "pre-sequel" of warband and sequel of M&B series and stamina would be a drastic change to gameplay and game series. Stamina is something, that would ruin competitive play and even MP play in general. I am not hoping for Bannerlord to become an e-sport and sincerely, I don't mind at all. But competitive gameplay exists in warband from the the start and I enjoyed it together with MP.
How do I know that? Look at warband now... what do you think would happen if Developers add new stamina system?
Ton of shi* would happen. Gameplay would drastically change in some way and that's a thing you don't want to risk as a developer of the game, because only 3 things can happen. -
- You end up with happy community that likes the stamina and only few people that dislikes it
- You end up with community merged in half (30% of people would essentialy leave the game)
- You end up with community that dislikes the stamina system and only few likes it.
I get it. You want more realistic gameplay. And I want competitive gameplay that won't be fu**ed by sh** like stamina.
No offense.
Also... I have to ask because I can't find any solution for this. How do you want to make that you won't be almost defenceless when your stamina rans out? I don't get it... Also how will stamina help you in case of left spam? You could essentially spam left attack until your stamina rans out ? Unless you want to make stamina system that would take half of the "bar" (or whatever) down.
LonelyStep
Sergeant
Đяαкøℵ said:
"For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many."
Huh, what do you know? It was an actual reference.
HedgeKnight
Knight at Arms
[SPQR]Eduard said:
I have a suggestion: make stamina a singleplayer option. Leave it out of the MP - everyone happy! Yes?
[SPQR]Eduard said:
The point is not to make it a huge change, and in fact I am not particularly saying that stamina should be in, but I can imagine how stamina or cool downs for certain actions can be useful. Also, if you don't want significant changes to combat, do you think it is nearly perfect as it is?
Great to see the blog out in timely fashion. As with other parts of the game, it sounds like they have paid attention to giving us different possibilities and making them meaningful;
"taking the longest to construct and reach the walls, the Siege Tower makes up for its costs by offering a direct route onto the walls, across a level platform. As a player, it is up to you to decide how much time to spend on these, under the pressure of wage costs and food management, as well as the chance a reinforcing enemy army will arrive."
I also like what they said about the bombardment, this is just what I was hoping for;
"Additionally, it is possible to create a full breach in the walls, allowing for your soldiers to pass over on foot, and restricting the mobility of the defenders, who can no longer traverse that section; this is only possible on the overland map, our reasoning being that it should only be possible with a time investment, and to place emphasis on the battle itself being an assault on the walls, rather a time to sit back and bombard. There is a fleshed out bombardment phase on the overland map, during which, the siege weapons you construct will exchange fire back and forth with the defenders', resulting in casualties, as well as damage to the siege equipment and walls."
So on the overland map, besiegers and besieged will fire at each other with siege weapons and suffer casualties and damage. This sort of thing makes the sieges more real on the overland map, hopefully there will be animations to show that siege weapons are being used. A breach of the walls can be made on the overland map, allowing you to enter the castle easily in the battle map.
"Fire is a type of damage, just like Cut and Piece in the previous games, which is effective against wooden siege equipment, troops and horses"
The poor horses! Hopefully troops wearing shell suits will be more susceptible to fire damage.
"Like Warband, there is a second phase keep fight, which plays out after the assault"; confirmation of this feature.
Something I thought was interesting, at the end of the blog- foreign looking troops were actually companions:
"During the assault, some of the soldiers seen are equipped with weapons and armour, not in-keeping with those of their faction. While it is possible, via a number of routes, for troops of any culture to end up in the services of another, what you actually saw here were the companions of the player and the defending lord."
MrMundy said:
I think it depended on your battle size settings. I'm not sure if it happened for castles as well as towns, but it definitely happened for the latter. However, I never saw it myself, I think because I had a large battle size limit.
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