Mount&Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 7 - Imperial Declines

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tomandre81

Regular
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jacobhinds said:
If they could make stealth work it would be a nice little feature, but despite practically every modern shooter having a stealth element the ai is never very good.
Yeah, it has to work and be good ofcourse :smile:
But if they nailed it, it would make the game so much cooler.
The one thing I never liked about Mount & blade is that thenemy always know where you are. even if you hide behind a bush or a wall or something.
Would be fun if the enemy had a field of view so you could suprise them from behind or something.
 
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tomandre81 said:
Are you going to implement stealth element to the game?

I was thinking if you want to play as a thief you could:

- Use rope to climb up castle walls
- Pickpocket
- Steal loot / gold from chests / cabinets throgh lockpicking
- Hiding in shadows
- Silent takedowns (either kill or just stun the opponent).
- The A.I would have to be smart and be able to spot you from a far distance and be alerted to suspicious sounds especially at night.

I would love to make my way as a thief in this wonderfull game of yours with the mount & blade gameplay.
lol wtf. i think you're looking for a different game...
 

bestguy

Veteran
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Good blog. I like the whole concept they got it spot on. Finding a balance between elaboration on the factions and letting us use our imagination for a sandbox is exactly what I wanted.

Pictures look good on the whole but I'm just a little bit shaky, the first picture has 3D models on close objects but the distant objects look 2D. I can't put my finger round it but there's something of a cartoonish element there, I'm unsure. Maybe it's just me.
Second picture is absolutely beautiful. Are you sure bannerlord is set before warband? Because the buildings and castles look a lot grander. But hey, we're all happy with that :grin:
 
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Don't waste time with stealth, pickpocketing, assassination missions, morality system, romances and dual wielding.

You really need to put the focus on making sure that fief management, siege equipment, battle size or balance are correctly made. Mount and blade has never been skyrim. Those people in this thread who want skyrim should just go to skyrim.
Please understand. The team can't spread its forces on so many features.
Also please don't let white american moralists tell you what should and shouldn't be in the game. I see more and more such people feinting offense at something that isn't offending. The artist shouldn't have to cave in to some whine baby.
For those who ask for sealth, dual wielding and what not... There is another turkish developer working on such a game, it's called Northen Shadow. Check it out on youtube.
 

videogames

Recruit
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Looking good, keep working on it and release it only when its done. No need to rush it, we arent going anywhere in the next few years. Improve the engine so it scales better and allows for more complex mods, make it stable and make the interface more convenient. So far so good, keep going and ignore the whiners asking for Skyrim features when stuff like naval warfare and sieges would be better served with a rework.
Although some co-op campaign capability would be neat to consider...
 

Tovias

Squire
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tomandre81 said:
Are you going to implement stealth element to the game?

I was thinking if you want to play as a thief you could:

- Use rope to climb up castle walls
- Pickpocket
- Steal loot / gold from chests / cabinets throgh lockpicking
- Hiding in shadows
- Silent takedowns (either kill or just stun the opponent).
- The A.I would have to be smart and be able to spot you from a far distance and be alerted to suspicious sounds especially at night.

I would love to make my way as a thief in this wonderfull game of yours with the mount & blade gameplay.
lmao you are the wrong game, mate.
 

Carlos Danger

Sergeant at Arms
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So, when will we be able to take part in the looting of towns, killing innocent villagers or hitting them with clubs and making them slaves, that would be a nice little bonus.
Sea raids would also be a nice feature, is there going to be more elaboration on the sea in this game seeing as it was an interest in WB?
 

MitchPTI

Veteran
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I don't know why people are asking for stealth. Mount & Blade is primarily about raising and managing an army to take on a campaign of your choosing. It does large battles excellently (though there's always room for improvement), but could benefit greatly from a lot of extra depth with regards to diplomacy, economy, lord relations, fief management, etc. The character running around on their own doing things like pickpocketing has nothing to do with the core gameplay and isn't playing to the strengths of the series. Bannerlord shouldn't emulate Skyrim or whatever some of you guys seem to want it to be, it should build on Mount & Blade's unique style of gameplay that has been excellent so far and has potential to become even better. Please don't ask the devs to move the focus away from what they do best and towards what other games do. Warband is by far the greatest game I have ever played due to its unique gameplay, I want Bannerlord to maintain that, not become a standard RPG
 

Jason L.

Sergeant Knight at Arms
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Carlos Danger said:
So, when will we be able to take part in the looting of towns, killing innocent villagers or hitting them with clubs and making them slaves, that would be a nice little bonus.
Sea raids would also be a nice feature, is there going to be more elaboration on the sea in this game seeing as it was an interest in WB?
+1
 
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Carlos Danger said:
So, when will we be able to take part in the looting of towns, killing innocent villagers or hitting them with clubs and making them slaves, that would be a nice little bonus.
Sea raids would also be a nice feature, is there going to be more elaboration on the sea in this game seeing as it was an interest in WB?
YES, YES, YES! like i said: morality system.
AND DON'T FORGET IMPALING!
 

redwood36

Sergeant at Arms
WBM&BWF&S
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MitchellD said:
I don't know why people are asking for stealth. Mount & Blade is primarily about raising and managing an army to take on a campaign of your choosing. It does large battles excellently (though there's always room for improvement), but could benefit greatly from a lot of extra depth with regards to diplomacy, economy, lord relations, fief management, etc. The character running around on their own doing things like pickpocketing has nothing to do with the core gameplay and isn't playing to the strengths of the series. Bannerlord shouldn't emulate Skyrim or whatever some of you guys seem to want it to be, it should build on Mount & Blade's unique style of gameplay that has been excellent so far and has potential to become even better. Please don't ask the devs to move the focus away from what they do best and towards what other games do. Warband is by far the greatest game I have ever played due to its unique gameplay, I want Bannerlord to maintain that, not become a standard RPG
This is all true, but on the other hand things like night raids and cutting off of supply lines (another addition that could be interesting for armies say above a certain number of troops. PresumAbly if you are of a certain size then you own land etc and villa ages and roads could act as thruways for supplies, therefore you don't have to have it all on hand at once(or indeed with a large enough force it would be impossible)

This combined with a stealthy /army mechanic would allow for resourceful commanders to take on larger forces if played correctly.
 
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redwood36 said:
This combined with a stealthy /army mechanic would allow for resourceful commanders to take on larger forces if played correctly.
The problem is that you've got to balance it so that the AI does it as well, which (in games) usually means an annoying popup saying you've lost x amount of troops to an unavoidable logistics sabotage. It's one of the reasons why I hate the agents in the total war series so much; they're unavoidable and you/the AI can just churn them out and deal nation-destroying damage for practically zero risk.

Given that in warband (and in the middle ages) most armies wouldn't have supply lines that were very long, a scorched-earth mechanic would make more sense. There are plenty of occasions when the enemy would be able to utterly screw me over by siphoning off the food in nearby villages (even with the ability to feed an entire army for weeks from an impoverished village's dregs). At least that way, there'd be a huge risk involved with sending the regional harvest up in flames.
 

An Irish Noob

Recruit
WBNW
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Looks like a massive improvement and the lore is a nice touch that I think will get me more into the rpg spirit.

What I want to see next are a few pictures of the world map. That is one of the things I am most excited for. Farmland, grassland, marshland, tundra, mountains and all that with rivers that actually look like rivers :razz: I want to see settlements that look more natural rather than just entities plonked down. Like a village hugging a river bank and a city embedded in the mountain's edge and things like that.
 

Pallanza

Sergeant
WB
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My personal wishlist for M&B consists of the following:

Better sieges (Multiple paths of assault, siege weaponry, defense weaponry, options while starving out the garrison to do things like fire rotting corpses/sacks of filth into the castle to try and induce sickness in the defenders, sap the walls, try to send one or two troops in at night to raise the front gate, etc)

Sea travel and sea battles. Pretty self-explanatory, maybe even allow assaults from the sea when sieging shoreline cities.

Thrusting polearms (2H and 1H with shield) not useless compared to every other weapon. Multiple directions of thrusting so the AI doesn't just hold down the entire time and casually stroll into spearman blocks without a single casualty. Rhodok infantry really suffer thanks to this. In Warband, I can kill up to mid-tier units with a dagger that can't block more easily then I can kill them with a spear and shield just because the dagger has more than one attack.

City/Village/Castle Growth. As a lord, I'd like to be able to invest heavily in my property, and see it grow accordingly. Being able to add additional farms to villages to up productivity, a garrison that can defend itself against bandits or generate a patrol that can take out small enemy forces, institute weekly/monthly militia training at the cost of some profit that results in my recruitments turning up low-tier soldiers instead of fresh recruits reliably and makes the garrison/patrols stronger (instead of the current high reputation, random chance system with no self-defense capabilities right now). Similar actions for castles and cities. I'd ask that the locations physically change with your upgrades, but that might take way more resources then necessary, so holding off on that would be completely understandable.

Not stealth. The focus of Warband has always been on commanding troops and raising armies. Certainly, players fighting alongside their army is a core part of the game, which is what draws me to it over pure RTS games. However, a stealth system would be meaningless in regards to armies, given you can already maneuver out of the range and sight of enemy armies so long as you invest in Pathfinding, Spotting, and tracking. And no commander would be dumb enough to send themselves in as reconaissance or scouting, since getting captured or killed would mean the immediate loss of the command structure for their troops, as well as a major morale boost for the enemy. Adding stealth for the sake of "individual" activities like pickpocketing or assassinating would just result in more time being taken away from the core gameplay: recruiting troops to build armies, conquering kingdoms, and building up an empire, as well as unnecessarily complicating combat. I also refer to jacobhind's post here for further support
jacobhinds said:
redwood36 said:
This combined with a stealthy /army mechanic would allow for resourceful commanders to take on larger forces if played correctly.
The problem is that you've got to balance it so that the AI does it as well, which (in games) usually means an annoying popup saying you've lost x amount of troops to an unavoidable logistics sabotage. It's one of the reasons why I hate the agents in the total war series so much; they're unavoidable and you/the AI can just churn them out and deal nation-destroying damage for practically zero risk.

Given that in warband (and in the middle ages) most armies wouldn't have supply lines that were very long, a scorched-earth mechanic would make more sense. There are plenty of occasions when the enemy would be able to utterly screw me over by siphoning off the food in nearby villages (even with the ability to feed an entire army for weeks from an impoverished village's dregs). At least that way, there'd be a huge risk involved with sending the regional harvest up in flames.
Battlefield awareness of the A.I. It'd be good if we could maneuver using terrain in the field to slip around the enemy without them rotating in place and being hyperaware of our location even when we're completely out of sight in an area that provides multiple hiding places like hills or ravines. This is the one form of stealth I'd be okay with, since it's less about "You are a super awesome ninja that can kill entire armies by hiding behind trees and popping out every so often", and more about good combat tactics and positioning your forces.

Bigger battle sizes, while preserving the size slider. I sympathize with the people who want giant battles, and it would certainly allow for more engrossing combat. At the same time, one of the draws of Warband is that it can run on "toasters", so to speak. Keeping the size slider would allow both parties to be satisfied.

I am ambivalent about dual wielding. As long as its weaknesses are properly represented in that you don't have the same strength behind your blows as holding a weapon with two hands, you can't defend yourself from arrows like you could with a shield, and blocking attacks takes more precision and maneuvering then with a shield, making it more troublesome to use in anything other then small scale battles against mostly close-combat opponents, I'd be fine with it. But given how most games (especially Skyrim, the game most people who suggest stealth and dual-wielding seem to want Bannerlord to turn into) make people who fight with two weapons into some sort of superhuman tornado of blades, there's a sense of unease about the entire thing.

I don't give a **** about romances, and to be frank, romances draw writers away from stuff like lore, backgrounds, and quest plotlines just so people can get their jerk on. The current romance system is fine as it is, especially since it's fairly close to what feudal courting was like anyways. Maybe named companions can get more intimate romance systems, but I don't really see how making them your bed buddy would provide any benefits in battle or commanding armies that would counter the drain of time and resources from core gameplay.