Mount&Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 5 - Virtual Skeletons

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Meevar the Mighty

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Leifr Eiríksson said:
The Victorians are more to blame for this.

Lucky that we've now dispelled the age as a whole, including that ridiculous belief that anyone, especially Scandinavians with a penchant for raiding, would wear horns on their helmets.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=227726.30
 

Lannistark

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Even though Warband is an awesome game for me, I've always felt like the whole Calradian lore becomes dull and repetitive over time - taverns are boring, NPCs behave as statues, the streets are devoid of life. Nothing happens, it feels like everything is kind of "dead".

In this installment of the series I'd love to see NPCs behaving as they should be, doing their chores, working, etc. Dialogues to be far more inmersive and not a shopping list to go over again and again. More opportunities as well for players owning fiefs, building certain buildings should not only bring a scripted bonus but as well some lore. A watch tower you recently built that makes the village harder to raid, but it can now act as a tiny garrison for troops as well which will be available in case of a battle. If you build a mill, the new building should appear in the village, perhaps storage boxes to keep some food there as well which you can attempt to steal.

When you visit a castle and the lord is there, he appears at the courtyard training the troops. You can ask to spar with him, or to train the troops yourself. At night he goes inside to have dinner. An advanced behaviour cycle NPCs follow similar to games like Skyrim.

Being able to customise your troops, invent troops, set gear between several options for each tier and troop tree.  Fully customise your kingdom, I liked how in Sword of Damocles you could choose a religion. I also liked how random events happen, making the game way more interesting.

Make the persuade skill more useful, add persuasive rolls to conversations just like in games such as Knights of the Old Republic. Removing the relationship with lords for a more complex social system. In warband it seems you had to do this this and that, and then the lord would do whatever you want.

Quests. More quests. We'd love to see countless quests. So many different types of quests that your journal would explode.

Overall being imaginative, this is by far one of the games with most potential. The posibilities are so wide I'm enthralled with this project.
 
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Lannistark said:
Even though Warband is an awesome game for me, I've always felt like the whole Calradian lore becomes dull and repetitive over time - taverns are boring, NPCs behave as statues, the streets are devoid of life. Nothing happens, it feels like everything is kind of "dead".

In this installment of the series I'd love to see NPCs behaving as they should be, doing their chores, working, etc. Dialogues to be far more inmersive and not a shopping list to go over again and again. More opportunities as well for players owning fiefs, building certain buildings should not only bring a scripted bonus but as well some lore. A watch tower you recently built that makes the village harder to raid, but it can now act as a tiny garrison for troops as well which will be available in case of a battle. If you build a mill, the new building should appear in the village, perhaps storage boxes to keep some food there as well which you can attempt to steal.

When you visit a castle and the lord is there, he appears at the courtyard training the troops. You can ask to spar with him, or to train the troops yourself. At night he goes inside to have dinner. An advanced behaviour cycle NPCs follow similar to games like Skyrim.

Being able to customise your troops, invent troops, set gear between several options for each tier and troop tree.  Fully customise your kingdom, I liked how in Sword of Damocles you could choose a religion. I also liked how random events happen, making the game way more interesting.

Make the persuade skill more useful, add persuasive rolls to conversations just like in games such as Knights of the Old Republic. Removing the relationship with lords for a more complex social system. In warband it seems you had to do this this and that, and then the lord would do whatever you want.

Quests. More quests. We'd love to see countless quests. So many different types of quests that your journal would explode.

Overall being imaginative, this is by far one of the games with most potential. The posibilities are so wide I'm enthralled with this project.

these all sound nice in theory but not feasible in reality. not with the time and resourses given to this studio. a 20-30% of it would be nice though.
 

Lannistark

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Each of them alone is feasible. Perhaps it is not possible to focus on all of those at the same time, but half of them would definitely make us all very happy.

I do hope something is made about the sieges in this game though. 30 days are too much to wait, and the sieges feel so repetitive...
 

Manu_La_Canette

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Aghalen said:
Orion said:
Aghalen said:
I would like to see different animations for different armors. An archer wearing light leather runs far more gracefully than a knight with 50 pounds of steel plate strapped onto him.
Plate harness is made to be fought in. In order to fight effectively you need full range of motion. It also mostly rides on the hips, so while it's heavy in an absolute sense it doesn't feel that heavy when you wear it.

D&D has skewed the perception of armor so much. :neutral:
Allthough plate armour is made in a way to hinder movement as less as possible, it still affects your movements. Things like sprinting, jumping and turning at high speed become a "tad" more difficult.
I do suppose youre right at some point, since you get used to the extra weight, but I cant help feeling odd seing a swadian knight run in the same way as a swadian recruit.
Well you should check some Battle of Nations stuff. Guys there are wearing 14th century plates armor and are dealing high kicks with those 30kg upon their backs. Most of them are doing combat sports aside, which reflects the physical training of a trained warrior or a knight, which was trained since his childhood. What I say is the armour doesn't hinder much 'movements' (the most difficulty imo is the loss of balance) as long as you have a decent stamina and a sportsman training. Still running, kicking, jumping and stuff makes sense in armour for a trained person.
 

LordCorbin

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Manu_La_Canette said:
Aghalen said:
Orion said:
Aghalen said:
I would like to see different animations for different armors. An archer wearing light leather runs far more gracefully than a knight with 50 pounds of steel plate strapped onto him.
Plate harness is made to be fought in. In order to fight effectively you need full range of motion. It also mostly rides on the hips, so while it's heavy in an absolute sense it doesn't feel that heavy when you wear it.

D&D has skewed the perception of armor so much. :neutral:
Allthough plate armour is made in a way to hinder movement as less as possible, it still affects your movements. Things like sprinting, jumping and turning at high speed become a "tad" more difficult.
I do suppose youre right at some point, since you get used to the extra weight, but I cant help feeling odd seing a swadian knight run in the same way as a swadian recruit.
Well you should check some Battle of Nations stuff. Guys there are wearing 14th century plates armor and are dealing high kicks with those 30kg upon their backs. Most of them are doing combat sports aside, which reflects the physical training of a trained warrior or a knight, which was trained since his childhood. What I say is the armour doesn't hinder much 'movements' (the most difficulty imo is the loss of balance) as long as you have a decent stamina and a sportsman training. Still running, kicking, jumping and stuff makes sense in armour for a trained person.
 
That pretty much sums it up. You dont see any fighter, boxer or MMA, jump into a ring with no cardio, ground game, or striking skills. In the same way that squires were trained for combat from a vary young age, and are able to be quiet mobile and flexible in heavy armor. Their entire life was dedicated and honed for battle. Besides, in warband  the 'run' skill determines how fast you are on foot. So if it aint broke, dont fix it.
 

crackwise

Recruit
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Just one thing I have noticed in the third screenshot of the update (the guy in the inn):  The guy has his sword and the scabbard on his back (Dragon Age style).

Carrying swords on the back is not a comfortable and realistic thing. People in real-life almost always wore their one handed swords on their waist, since it is much easier and more convenient to draw it from there. Try drawing it from back and you will see how stupid you look when trying to do that!

Since Mount and Blade series have so far aimed for practical realism in a fictional world, I think it would be cool to consider such things :smile:
 

Orion

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Better a one-handed sword than a two-handed sword. You are at least physically capable of drawing a one-handed sword from a scabbard on your back, though it helps if you grab the bottom of the scabbard with your other hand and pull it downwards.

I agree that it's impractical, though, and I see no reason why it should be in Bannerlord. It's quicker to draw from a belt than your back, and the cross-body movement makes it safer to do so.
 

Meevar the Mighty

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A sheathed sword is generally affixed to a baldric, which is not rigid. It doesn't matter a great deal where it is as long as it isn't trailing along the ground or restricting movement.

I can't find any primary source for the practice in medieval western Europe, but there are plenty of examples of sword on back in eastern sources. In the west, there are examples of shield on back, spear on back, javelin on back and crossbow on back, so if swords weren't worn on the back, surely it was a matter of fashion as much as anything else.
 

Orion

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I think the main issue is with how they're drawn, i.e. in a long, straight motion from the scabbard. You can only reach so high above your head. Shields worn on the back are usually held by a sling or long strap, so you don't have to pull them straight up like a sword. I would say the "sword on the back" thing is a fashion thing, and more specifically, it's a Hollywood thing. It looks cool, but like several other things from Hollywood it isn't entirely realistic or practical.

While some baldrics obviously make it significantly easier, I have yet to see a single one in Mount & Blade, Warband, or the Bannerlord images we've been shown.
 

Meevar the Mighty

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Swords are also usually held by a long strap, but you're right of course, no hint of that kind of suspension in any of the screenshots. Still, I don't think the sheath from a seoidachi was suspended with a lot of flexibility, but they could clearly be drawn.


Since a sword on your back is likely to be very long, it's pretty unlikely you'll ever need to draw it in a huge hurry, so I don't think that's the kind of practicality that needs consideration.
 

Orion

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Meevar the Mighty said:
Since a sword on your back is likely to be very long, it's pretty unlikely you'll ever need to draw it in a huge hurry, so I don't think that's the kind of practicality that needs consideration.
The biggest advantage to drawing from the waist is the cross-body movement involved, with your sword in front of you even before it has fully left the scabbard. It's immediately in a defensive position without any extra movement. Drawing from the shoulder not only takes more time, but leaves you totally exposed for that entire time as well. That's the practicality I meant. So, like you said, it's never something to be done in a huge hurry. Unfortunately, Mount & Blade weapon swapping is always fast, always in a hurry, and sometimes totally unrealistic in other ways. Where do you stash your pike in Warband when it isn't in your hands?

These are pretty simple things to address if Bannerlord wants to become a bit more realistic without becoming burdened by obnoxious limitations. Long weapons like pikes and lances should be dropped when swapping, and weapons held on the back should take more time to draw. It makes carrying and using these weapons an actual choice, rather than a no-brainer leading to Swiss Army knife loadouts being standard in multiplayer.
 

Eske

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Orion said:
These are pretty simple things to address if Bannerlord wants to become a bit more realistic without becoming burdened by obnoxious limitations. Long weapons like pikes and lances should be dropped when swapping, and weapons held on the back should take more time to draw. It makes carrying and using these weapons an actual choice, rather than a no-brainer leading to Swiss Army knife loadouts being standard in multiplayer.
That would be great for realism and even better for multiplayer - spamming through weapons is all too easy and effective.

I wonder if there should be a quick-change button that drops ANY weapon you're currently holding in favour of your new selection. I mean, even replacing a sword in a conveniently placed sheath is more trouble than it's worth if you're right in the midst of a fight.

The thrill of quick meaningful decisions could add to the action. Without realistic consequences, switching weapons is really a non-decision of cycling rapidly through every option. Maybe it could be made easier to pick-up discarded weapons.

Lances could break after one good hit too. That would also be good for realism and multiplayer, IMO.
 

Kentucky James VII

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They should definitely streamline the weapon picking up process. You pretty much have to aim at the exact pixel the game wants you to look at.
 

Meevar the Mighty

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The number of times I've died trying to find where the crossbow really is!

@Orion:

Agree with what you say, though I think when it comes to switching weapons, gameplay has to come first for M&B. I also wonder how much more useful it is to have the sword half drawn from the hip than to have it half drawn from the back, remembering that in the latter case, you're not reaching up to the sky, but across your body in a downward motion from the shoulder. It would depend on the attack and likewise, once fully drawn, some defensive positions could be reached more quickly with each. What makes it necessarily slow is the fact that it's awkward to go around with your hand ready to draw from that position.

@Eske:

I'd say after one bad hit, rather than a good one. If lances break all the time though, you'd need the AI to run back and get another one after every charge.
 

negatrev

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Perhaps have a fairly low chance of breaking if you hit leather, slightly higher for mail/plate, higher still for hitting a block, then for hitting a shield, finally I'd love to see almost instant breaks if you charge into an obstacle, which would make standing off against a mounted opponent with a building at your back an even more viable option (not only do you get the free hit while the mount rears, but they also could be having to pick a new weapon).
 

Meevar the Mighty

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Admittedly, I've never tried lancing anyone, but I'd expect it to be very unlikely for a lance to break if you hit someone on the edge, regardless of what kind of armour they're wearing, but very likely if they're hit right in the middle, or, as you say, on a shield, where the lance may have nowhere to escape. Armour designed to deflect blows to the side would work in favour of the lance longevity, provided it isn't penetrated.