Mount&Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 5 - Virtual Skeletons

Happy Friday to avid readers and passers by. It has been a little while since our last Bannerlord Blog. In this entry we are once more decreasing the number of unblogged rooms in the office by one. Although some animations are made and polished in various parts of the office, many are captured in our very own motion capture studio near the main door of our offices. The animation hub and thus the associated blog room for this episode.

Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/6

 

[Orion]

It takes a lot of effort and loads of time to convert Native models to pieces and incorporate them into the destruction and physics engine Sebastian wrote.

Thanks for saying what I was implying. That was precisely my point.

 

[The Bowman]

It does take some time for one amateur, but I can't tell the same thing about a professional team of artists with the necessary tools and the engine team next door. We can't just dismiss features "cuz it takes time". Building the engine itself, or making the atmospheres look right also did.

 

[Marko͘]

You implied it's not completely destructible, or repeatedly so(well it is, but only up to a certain point).
But, yes, I'd love a destruction physics engine in Bannerlord 

 

[Antar]

My stance on destructible walls is: If they can make it work, then good, if they can't, then I'm fine with that, too.

 

[Do not look here]

I'm not so sure on destructible walls, those on screens seems pretty small, "city-size" walls would probably require double the amount of pre-made scene props. But, yeah, TaleWorlds are the big boys with big toys here, not random modders, so let's hop above making them, let's hop above implementing them, let's hop above implementing AI that can handle breaches...
...we're still sitting on the fact, that it's something that can randomly make dozen of your soldiers go *poof*. Which is more or less one tenth of your army. Or can take you down, because you actually wanted to do something during siege, instead of sit through a whole thing in a safe-spot.
As I've said in other thread, siege weaponry killing 10 of ~100 men strong unit in TW? Welp, life is brutal.
Siege weaponry randomly killing 10 elites out of your ~100 men strong party in M&B? Guaranteed rage inducer.

Now, I wouldn't have anything against elaborating the "implied" work of catapults and trebuchets that we've got now, when siege towers aim for parts of walls that were already taken down. Maybe being able to "create" more such attack points with higher engineer level, or maybe even being able to create breach and assault such choke-point. But I can't see actively throwing projectiles around, mowing through yours and enemies' ranks. That's worse than "head-seeking" javelins.

 

[HannesFury]

Somewhat puzzled how you're able to hop around so avidly with this Christmas wall socking stuck on your foot.

 

[LordCorbin]

Spoiler

It does take some time for one amateur, but I can't tell the same thing about a professional team of artists with the necessary tools and the engine team next door. We can't just dismiss features "cuz it takes time". Building the engine itself, or making the atmospheres look right also did.

True. But like Orion was saying, untill the AI has true pathfinding it's a waiste of time. Not that it has ever bothered me to much that that the occasional NPC gets stuck behind a rock, house, ect. But it would be a huge waist of time to devote the team to destrucables if AI has no idea how to use it. Which by the way is the reason warband probably only ever had a single entry point during a siege.

Spoiler

My stance on destructible walls is: If they can make it work, then good, if they can't, then I'm fine with that, too.

Thats about where im at with it.

 

[The Bowman]

I'm not so sure on destructible walls, those on screens seems pretty small, "city-size" walls would probably require double the amount of pre-made scene props. But, yeah, TaleWorlds are the big boys with big toys here, not random modders, so let's hop above making them, let's hop above implementing them, let's hop above implementing AI that can handle breaches...
...we're still sitting on the fact, that it's something that can randomly make dozen of your soldiers go *poof*. Which is more or less one tenth of your army. Or can take you down, because you actually wanted to do something during siege, instead of sit through a whole thing in a safe-spot.
As I've said in other thread, siege weaponry killing 10 of ~100 men strong unit in TW? Welp, life is brutal.
Siege weaponry randomly killing 10 elites out of your ~100 men strong party in M&B? Guaranteed rage inducer.

Now, I wouldn't have anything against elaborating the "implied" work of catapults and trebuchets that we've got now, when siege towers aim for parts of walls that were already taken down. Maybe being able to "create" more such attack points with higher engineer level, or maybe even being able to create breach and assault such choke-point. But I can't see actively throwing projectiles around, mowing through yours and enemies' ranks. That's worse than "head-seeking" javelins.

First off, those toys that we can potentially have in siege cost money: a lot of them, and they cannot be affordable by every single lord. It also depends how smart the AI is going to be. If they'll be dumb like they are now, they'd just clutter in one spot and take the decisive battle there. If we're going to get smarter AI, we can have a broad extension of soldiers guarding different strategic sites (not to mention using the krenels accorgingly). That said, it wouldn't make half of your army perish from one stone ball.

Speaking about archers using krenels:

A Warband mod:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Bannerlord:

Spoiler

Spoiler: Krenel Simulator 2000

I hope that big WIP explains it. I hope...(just hoping)

 

[Leonidas300]

I'm not so sure on destructible walls, those on screens seems pretty small, "city-size" walls would probably require double the amount of pre-made scene props. But, yeah, TaleWorlds are the big boys with big toys here, not random modders, so let's hop above making them, let's hop above implementing them, let's hop above implementing AI that can handle breaches...
...we're still sitting on the fact, that it's something that can randomly make dozen of your soldiers go *poof*. Which is more or less one tenth of your army. Or can take you down, because you actually wanted to do something during siege, instead of sit through a whole thing in a safe-spot.
As I've said in other thread, siege weaponry killing 10 of ~100 men strong unit in TW? Welp, life is brutal.
Siege weaponry randomly killing 10 elites out of your ~100 men strong party in M&B? Guaranteed rage inducer.

Now, I wouldn't have anything against elaborating the "implied" work of catapults and trebuchets that we've got now, when siege towers aim for parts of walls that were already taken down. Maybe being able to "create" more such attack points with higher engineer level, or maybe even being able to create breach and assault such choke-point. But I can't see actively throwing projectiles around, mowing through yours and enemies' ranks. That's worse than "head-seeking" javelins.

First off, those toys that we can potentially have in siege cost money: a lot of them, and they cannot be affordable by every single lord. It also depends how smart the AI is going to be. If they'll be dumb like they are now, they'd just clutter in one spot and take the decisive battle there. If we're going to get smarter AI, we can have a broad extension of soldiers guarding different strategic sites (not to mention using the krenels accorgingly). That said, it wouldn't make half of your army perish from one stone ball.

Speaking about archers using krenels:

A Warband mod:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Bannerlord:

Spoiler

Spoiler: Krenel Simulator 2000

I hope that big WIP explains it. I hope...(just hoping)

Yeah, Crusader Way to Expiation is a good example of how the Bannerlords sige system should be, it must be basic in Bannerlord to be able to do all the things showed in that mod + a lot more. I mean, 3 guys done a lot without so much knowledge or proffesional computer tools so one proffesional gaming company should be able to do a lot more.

 

[crodio]

well that looks pretty neat, but i would like to see what happens when the besiegers get into the wall

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

Their bows are clipping inside the crenels and they're aiming over the top of them, but other than that, very strong point making.

While it might be a trifle unrealistic (and hazardous to gameplay if troop movements remain so hard to control) to have walls being knocked down willy nilly by catapults in-battle, I wonder if, on being hit, walls would shake enough to cause a nuisance to the people on top.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

or simply cave in harmlessly creating a breach. a lot of walls would have had earth in them to prevent them becoming dangerous to the defenders if they were destroyed, and to make them more resistant to trauma. besides, it's not as if the walls in warband are that tall. collapsing wall does not always have to = instakill, like in total war.

 

[pellehard]

new blog please

 

[Admiral Nelson]

new blog please

I was wondering when somebody would ask this...

...It was much earlier than I thought. I R Disappoint.

 

[Do not look here]

I was rather aiming at getting hit with a boulder=instakill. I still think that damaging wall could be done "behind the scenes" with "prepare for assault" option before storming the castle. Hmm, looks like I'm biased against siege engines

 

[johnny keitz]

we want new bloggerlord

 

[Meevar the Mighty]

or simply cave in harmlessly creating a breach. a lot of walls would have had earth in them to prevent them becoming dangerous to the defenders if they were destroyed, and to make them more resistant to trauma. besides, it's not as if the walls in warband are that tall. collapsing wall does not always have to = instakill, like in total war.

The walls in bannerlord look higher, but that's a good point. Since a wall section is unlikely to collapse all at once, you're probably not going to lose many men to fall damage, even if they don't react to the danger, but it would be simple to make them detect dangerously damaged wall and stay clear of it.

 

[Orion]

I was rather aiming at getting hit with a boulder=instakill. I still think that damaging wall could be done "behind the scenes" with "prepare for assault" option before storming the castle. Hmm, looks like I'm biased against siege engines

Not all siege engines would negatively affect gameplay, I think. Battering rams, cats/galleries, and similar things that don't chuck projectiles horribly long distances would be perfectly fine. Their main goal is to enable soldiers to get into melee, and since M&B's strongest feature is its melee combat these seem like fine additions, plus battering rams add another entry point into castles which is something we can all agree is nice. Something to counter them would probably be needed, and because defenders are inevitably going to be attacked I don't see a problem with defensive artillery. Offensive artillery, I feel, would just promote long-ranged sniping and cheesing of sieges with little risk to one's own soldiers. Defensive artillery wouldn't have such a problem, as long as its damage capability isn't ridiculously high. Single projectiles that might possibly penetrate a couple infantrymen would probably be ideal. Balistae might be a good choice for that, and aiming them is probably easier than aiming other siege artillery.

 

[bitchslaproof-vest]

I played the latest warband yesterday and it is how I remember it. horseback fighting is uber difficult. where is the good old mount and blade where you could take an army on a horse? now you say when to unmount to battle decently. the spoiling of the horseback fighting happened long long ago in M&B.  i don't know how or why. which parameters they tampered with. i know though that with especially one handed swords the fights are a deadend on horse. please fix that on Bannerlord. as for polearms I went in a tournament and I faced four two-handed sword wielders, it was devastating. and indeed thrusting in both polearms and swords. has issues. I hope you guys fix all these on Bannerlord too.

It is not the core mechanics of fighting that should change as some claim. It is them that gave the game whatever renown it has till now. It is it's most praised and considered unique characteristic. but it is messed up today. improve that, and improve it in the M&B way, not change it from the roots.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Horseback combat in m&b was horribly dumbed down. Even in warband it's not that hard - just point the reticule at your target and swing. As for everything else, it's all anout timing.