Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 13 - Weekending

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<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm;">Greetings ye faithful and thank you for coming to read the, somewhat belated, thirteenth of our here Bannerlord blogs. As promised, we're giving a rundown of what we showed at the PC Gamer Weekender (video below) in March, with some added detail, guided by the questions we received on the forums. Thanks to everyone who got involved whether directly asking questions or just discussing in general!</p>
<p><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bbrnPtybNd4" frameborder="0" width="560" height="370"></iframe></p></br> Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/15
 
SenorZorros 说:
the problem with autumn and spring is not that the weather is too bad. the problem is that your men are to busy either sowing or harvesting. during summer there was relatively little work so the lords were able to levy their peasants without risking a bad harvest. I could not find any real sources though and the few forum posts I found say that it might indeed be extended to late-spring depending on the weather and storage (there can be periods of rainfall during spring) as well as early fall.

Good point, but one famous instance of fighting in Autumn was Hastings. Stamford bridge was fought in late September, before Harold marched south to face William on the 14th of October. While there were problems for Harold with some of his men already having gone home at the start of September to bring in the harvest, he still had many soldiers; perhaps some of the fyrd that hadn't previously been readied for the expected invasion of William were called to the army when the first lot were sent home. William had brought across an army of several thousand men and had been trying to cross for one and a half months by the time the weather was good enough.

So there are examples of large armies operating at harvest time. But the point I was making in the first place was that the winter should have an effect on the viability of campaigning, not make it impossible. I hope that as well as the weather effects, there is also some sort of feudal system, but I think it might already have been said that the recruitment is the same as in Warband. It would be good if you could take out half a village's levy for the summer and half for the Autumn, say, which would allow a modest army to be used up until the onset of winter. One of the good things for me about the Battle for Sicily mod, which I played on M&B .808, was that as a lord, your village levy could only be kept out a few months at a time, or it might even have been a few weeks. You could have your knights with you as long as you wanted but the levy had to go home after a certain time.

Like I said earlier in this post, I think they've indicated that the recruitment will be the same as before, essentially buying troops from any village. That would be a shame. In a way it makes sense; if you pay a young man to join your army and pay him a regular wage, he may well be richer than being a farm hand on a large estate or tending his own small strip of land and thus eager to join you, but there are issues with this that aren't represented in Warband. The reduction of manpower should badly effect the productivity of the village, reducing the amount of food and other raw materials harvested by it, making them scarcer. It should also anger the lord of the village, since you are making his source of income less productive.

I would like some factions to have a feudal system, where levies are called up to form large armies and only have to be fed, not paid. You could keep a retinue of professional warriors such as knights and sergeants with you at all times, paying them, which of course you could also do with mercenaries, but the levy would have to go home after a while. The Empire could be different though, perhaps maintaining a professional standing army (if we were to take the very early Byzantine model or late Western Empire model), which would cost a lot of money but the troops would all be well equipped and never need to leave the army to run farms or businesses. It would give more character to the different factions and make the world feel more alive.

I'm fairly sure it isn't like this in Bannerlord though; Lust said in the Q&A at the Weekender that all the factions had a king with lords beneath him and I think they probably all have the same system as one another. Of course we have also seen that a player can have a mixture of faction troops in his army, so clearly the player doesn't need to be a lord to recruit villagers. Still, it will be interesting to see exactly how recruitment works.
 
DanAngleland 说:
Good point, but one famous instance of fighting in Autumn was Hastings. Stamford bridge was fought in late September, before Harold marched south to face William on the 14th of October. While there were problems for Harold with some of his men already having gone home at the start of September to bring in the harvest, he still had many soldiers; perhaps some of the fyrd that hadn't previously been readied for the expected invasion of William were called to the army when the first lot were sent home. William had brought across an army of several thousand men and had been trying to cross for one and a half months by the time the weather was good enough.

So there are examples of large armies operating at harvest time. But the point I was making in the first place was that the winter should have an effect on the viability of campaigning, not make it impossible. I hope that as well as the weather effects, there is also some sort of feudal system, but I think it might already have been said that the recruitment is the same as in Warband. It would be good if you could take out half a village's levy for the summer and half for the Autumn, say, which would allow a modest army to be used up until the onset of winter. One of the good things for me about the Battle for Sicily mod, which I played on M&B .808, was that as a lord, your village levy could only be kept out a few months at a time, or it might even have been a few weeks. You could have your knights with you as long as you wanted but the levy had to go home after a certain time.

Like I said earlier in this post, I think they've indicated that the recruitment will be the same as before, essentially buying troops from any village. That would be a shame. In a way it makes sense; if you pay a young man to join your army and pay him a regular wage, he may well be richer than being a farm hand on a large estate or tending his own small strip of land and thus eager to join you, but there are issues with this that aren't represented in Warband. The reduction of manpower should badly effect the productivity of the village, reducing the amount of food and other raw materials harvested by it, making them scarcer. It should also anger the lord of the village, since you are making his source of income less productive.

I would like some factions to have a feudal system, where levies are called up to form large armies and only have to be fed, not paid. You could keep a retinue of professional warriors such as knights and sergeants with you at all times, paying them, which of course you could also do with mercenaries, but the levy would have to go home after a while. The Empire could be different though, perhaps maintaining a professional standing army (if we were to take the very early Byzantine model or late Western Empire model), which would cost a lot of money but the troops would all be well equipped and never need to leave the army to run farms or businesses. It would give more character to the different factions and make the world feel more alive.

I'm fairly sure it isn't like this in Bannerlord though; Lust said in the Q&A at the Weekender that all the factions had a king with lords beneath him and I think they probably all have the same system as one another. Of course we have also seen that a player can have a mixture of faction troops in his army, so clearly the player doesn't need to be a lord to recruit villagers. Still, it will be interesting to see exactly how recruitment works.
I will not defend the point that there were no campaigns in autumn since that is clearly not true though they might have been rarer.

I completely agree with your second point. I would also like to see the Arabian faction more Arabian-like instead of being structured like a feudal system. I d wonder though how the partial-slave-like structure of the military can be modeled though.

another thing I wonder about is attrition. normally if you march an army through anywhere but especially bad weather you will lose men. this could be an interesting feature but also very annoying.

lastly, on the lords opinion on your recruiting. I think that when you are a small adventurer generally you should fall under the radar though a lord might try to get his peasants back if you are too bold. when you are a lord yourself however they might be a bit less tolerant about this. personally I found the idea that you had to as for permission from a lord in vc quite good though a bit annoying.
it could help if you were able to recruit in cities without permission but generally get less and worse recruits while owning the city or being friends with the lord would get you access to the barracks where one could recruit professional soldiers for a higher price.
 
tgoodchild 说:
What is OKaM?

OKaM is "Of Kings and Men", a game currently being worked on by a small developer studio. The name is a recent change from "Melee: Battlegrounds", the name which the website and forum still go under:

http://melee.org/
[/quote]

Thanks.  I'm looking for a proxy as I wait for Bannerlord!
 
There are upcoming games like "Melee: Battlegrounds" or what its called now ("Of Men and Donkeys" I believe  :smile: ), and "Mordhau", which both might have some similarities to M&B on certain levels.

Then there are games like "War of the Roses" and the same with Vikings, but they are not so good IMO.

On the bright side, only 6/7 months until "Bannerlord" if all goes well.  :party:
 
Pilum 说:
There are upcoming games like "Melee: Battlegrounds" or what its called now ("Of Men and Donkeys" I believe  :smile: ), and "Mordhau", which both might have some similarities to M&B on certain levels.

Then there are games like "War of the Roses" and the same with Vikings, but they are not so good IMO.

On the bright side, only 6/7 months until "Bannerlord" if all goes well.  :party:
is anything out there that is set in a more classical era like ancient greece or roman empire?
was expecting more from M&B 2 than just upgraded graphix engine with a few tweaks
feels like a mod. maybe I'm spoiled by total conversion community mods that had done more/better in less time with just handful of ppl in their spare time? not even naval battles, uh?

I'm very underwhelmed so far to say the least....
 
I think it is fair to say that if naval battles aren't in BL from the beginning, they will be modded in.
I'm sure they will be more glorious than in Warband's mods.

I wouldn't be surprised if TW revealed more of the good stuff, like unexpected features, at E3.
 
Red River 说:
is anything out there that is set in a more classical era like ancient greece or roman empire?
was expecting more from M&B 2 than just upgraded graphix engine with a few tweaks
feels like a mod. maybe I'm spoiled by total conversion community mods that had done more/better in less time with just handful of ppl in their spare time? not even naval battles, uh?

I'm very underwhelmed so far to say the least....

Hmmm.... Can you show me a mod with facial animations or crafting of weapons from constituent parts, or working catapults and rams that don't look like this:



You refer to total conversion mods and ask in the same post about games set in classical times. Why is there not a single completed mod of that type for M&B? There have been attempts, like Ealabor's long work on a Rome mod and Lynores' Peloponnesian War (this was released but far from finished), but they don't get completed- and these appear to be, for the most part, exercises in lots of modelling and texturing, with a few new animations for certain shields or weapons, not creating entirely new features from scratch. Highly time consuming as these things are to do, they are not nearly as complex as creating new features such as proper weapon crafting or a replay feature.

There are a few things I am disappointed by too, but it is silly to perpetuate this idea that modders do more work and create more than game developers. We rightly expect more from game developers in terms of the complexity of the work (creating new graphical features, new physics) and the quality (see the above catapult example). Modding efforts do not, generally, come close (though in Warband there are certainly half baked features and the occasional ugly texture, and some modders have certainly done brilliant modelling and texture work and worked hard to create deeper complexity to diplomacy with extensive options).

The thing about naval battles is that they don't really bring a radical change in gameplay in the pre-gunpowder era yet getting people and ships to look and act in a realistic way on water is hard. I haven't played Viking Conquest but having looked at its naval battles, I can say they don't look great in my opinion. Either you spend a lot of time animating people rowing and steering the ship, as well as the ship being manoeuvred alongside the enemy to board, or you don't and things look a little strange (as in VC. There are other issues such as the wave splash effects coming up through the hull). However, whether or not you go to that trouble, then all you effectively have is a land battle in a confined space. Unless you implement ramming, which would require troops to react realistically (toppling over at the moment of impact) and the rammed ship to be damaged visibly, perhaps to sink in a realistic way. That would need either a lot of hard work or compromises with reality and settling for an abstract representation of ship behaviour and damage (a few splinter sprites being generated before the model descends, tips or disappears). Again, the gameplay result is underwhelming; you or the enemy lose a lot of men in an instant.
 
Red River 说:
Pilum 说:
There are upcoming games like "Melee: Battlegrounds" or what its called now ("Of Men and Donkeys" I believe  :smile: ), and "Mordhau", which both might have some similarities to M&B on certain levels.

Then there are games like "War of the Roses" and the same with Vikings, but they are not so good IMO.

On the bright side, only 6/7 months until "Bannerlord" if all goes well.  :party:
is anything out there that is set in a more classical era like ancient greece or roman empire?
was expecting more from M&B 2 than just upgraded graphix engine with a few tweaks
feels like a mod. maybe I'm spoiled by total conversion community mods that had done more/better in less time with just handful of ppl in their spare time? not even naval battles, uh?

I'm very underwhelmed so far to say the least....
really? Cause personally Im sick of the potato faces and horrible animations. M&B is my favourite game but I only play NW now. It desperately needs a makeover
 
Here's an idea: Under the "Show Casualties" option, make a sub-option to show only the player's kills and stuns.

A lot of ally messages can block much of the screen in no time, so some people turn "show casualties" off. But it's also satisfying to see your own kill and stun messages.
 
Good idea. I almost never have casualty report on in single player, but if it only showed my own kills I would use it a bit more (still not most of the time; I like to have as much clear screen as possible for immersion and simply being able to see everything).
 
DanAngleland 说:
Good idea. I almost never have casualty report on in single player, but if it only showed my own kills I would use it a bit more (still not most of the time; I like to have as much clear screen as possible for immersion and simply being able to see everything).
Wait, there is a show casualties button for SP?! 
 
Yes, in options- down near the bottom where you choose other things like whether to have cross-hairs on for missile weapons. When I say casualty report, I just mean the thing during battle, where it says Rhodok Sharpshooter killed by Sarranid Mameluke etc. in a scrolling list at the left side of the screen.
 
the backspace menu also contains a bit of information on how many soldiers are active/have died/have been knocked unconcious/have routed.
though I hope bannerlord has something g better than the godawful l anti-immersive almost programmer art-like backspace menu.
 
DanAngleland 说:
When I say casualty report, I just mean the thing during battle, where it says Rhodok Sharpshooter killed by Sarranid Mameluke etc. in a scrolling list at the left side of the screen.
Yes, that's the thing that I always wanted to disable.  And to think that it was there the whole time ... :facepalm:
 
everyone who wants taleworlds release video for 4 another factions, please ask them for that.
maybe thay  response for it.
 
DanAngleland 说:
The thing about naval battles is that they don't really bring a radical change in gameplay in the pre-gunpowder era yet getting people and ships to look and act in a realistic way on water is hard. I haven't played Viking Conquest but having looked at its naval battles, I can say they don't look great in my opinion. Either you spend a lot of time animating people rowing and steering the ship, as well as the ship being manoeuvred alongside the enemy to board, or you don't and things look a little strange (as in VC. There are other issues such as the wave splash effects coming up through the hull). However, whether or not you go to that trouble, then all you effectively have is a land battle in a confined space. Unless you implement ramming, which would require troops to react realistically (toppling over at the moment of impact) and the rammed ship to be damaged visibly, perhaps to sink in a realistic way. That would need either a lot of hard work or compromises with reality and settling for an abstract representation of ship behaviour and damage (a few splinter sprites being generated before the model descends, tips or disappears). Again, the gameplay result is underwhelming; you or the enemy lose a lot of men in an instant.

I enjoy the naval a battles in VC, but it's maybe partly because for me it feels different enough from constant field battles. No formations, no cavalry, need to be more wary of javelins. Like sieges they break up the gameplay a bit, even if they're not totally ideal. Plus I like the concept a lot.
I think the "lose a lot of men in an instant" aspect can be ok as long as it's reasonably rare and is totally skill based, so the player can avoid it if they're careful.

Also I seem to remember they mentioned a much-improved physics element to the engine, which should help with ramming etc.
 
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