Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Developer Blog 12 - The Passage Of Time

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Hello Bannerlord blog regulars and newcomers. In this entry, we are once again responding to your demands to hear more about single player gameplay - specifically, looking at the overworld map and some of the improvements made there. We revealed the map at Gamescom and mentioned some new features in the last blog. Here, we'll take what we've revealed and go into some more detail.

Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/14
 

Pequiq

Recruit
KuroiNekouPL said:
I wouldn't really mind it, but I don't really like it. Seems a bit too Hollywood-y for me. Also, really redundant.
yea well Chivalry's disberment is little bit TOO dramatic but at least decapitating would be fun...  :grin:
 
Swinging 10 times was just for example sake. I was just trying to get an idea across that resembles life a bit more than the system they have in most games where your stamina totally drains and regenerates within a few seconds, I wouldn't like to see a system like that in this game, I don't think it fits. My example I think would fit a bit better in the larger scale battles. If my system was in Warband, you wouldn't probably see any difference early in the game, as the battles are quite short, where you'd see more of an effect is late game battles and sieges where you have bunch of enemies spawning several times and you personally take out like 100 enemy soldiers. My system is off course only if there is a stamina system, if there isn't I'd be fine with it, might even prefer it. 
 

The Meddling Monk

Master Knight
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
Pequiq said:
BTW anyone interested about (possible) model disberment? What do you think, would it be good or not? I'd prefer something like Chivalry's disberment but how about you people?
Well Chivalry is more of an arcade-y game, so I wouldn't really want to see that level of gore in Bannerlord.  What I would like to see would be more realistic blood, as well as somewhat realistic wounding, (like having minor/major cuts, bruising, gashes, etc.) that could have more of an effect on a player.  It would also be cool if you wound an enemy lord, the next time you fight him he would still have the wound or remnants of it. (Like an eye patch or bandaged arm/leg.)

warpowerfull said:
Swinging 10 times was just for example sake. I was just trying to get an idea across that resembles life a bit more than the system they have in most games where your stamina totally drains and regenerates within a few seconds, I wouldn't like to see a system like that in this game, I don't think it fits. My example I think would fit a bit better in the larger scale battles. If my system was in Warband, you wouldn't probably see any difference early in the game, as the battles are quite short, where you'd see more of an effect is late game battles and sieges where you have bunch of enemies spawning several times and you personally take out like 100 enemy soldiers. My system is off course only if there is a stamina system, if there isn't I'd be fine with it, might even prefer it.
That's why I think it would be good to have it toggle-able, like in Viking Conquest.  That way you would satisfy both parties.
 
Toggalable would be fine. Probably not even too hard to implement. Depending how stamina is implemented it might even be very easily doable in the char txt file by changing some numbers if its not officially in the game.
 

cherac

Sergeant Knight
The game is fine the way it is. All we need is more detail and features the gameplay is just fine, what we all love about mount and blade is its simplicity.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
I'm against the inclusion of stamina because it wouldn't bring much to the table. It would either make the game stupidly arcady and unrealistic or would be barely noticeable. Why bother wasting time on coding and balancing such an unnecessary feature? That's the kind of thing that modders should do if they feel like it.
 
I do love the simplicity of M&B, sometimes less is more. I've recently gotten into Rebel Galaxy and I feel like it has that similar feel to it as M&B where its a pretty simple game but addicting and fun. However with both games sometimes I do want a bit more complicated things. For example in M&B would love if there were more complicated territory management features, however there also be an option to leave it to AI to handle. So if I feel like just going to do combat with my army I can do that, but if I get tired of it and feel like I want to do a bit more strategic management of my assets I have the option to do as well, like change taxes, build structures, maybe even pass judgment on cases that the peasants have, maybe change what a village is producing, etc. I think they are adding bunch of features to the game in that regard, maybe not as robust as I mentioned but a lot more than in the original games which is great.
 

Quidfit

Recruit
I just want to put out how I think a coop mode should work in bannerlord. I know it's unlikely to be considered but is there anywhere to submit suggestions?

Rather than go fully independent coop (potentially pvp) which I don't believe to be possible or practical. I think players should be able to invite other players to join their existing singleplayer game, divide their existing troops and inventory (rations) as the primary user desires and when the invited player wishes to leave their army would simply travel back to join the primary users army.
I would have the secondary user be simply treated as a Vasel sharing the primary users reputation. There could be a shared wallet any purchases subject to the primary users approval.
I think this would be fairly easy to integrate into the game add to multiplayer strategy ( in combat or for managing properties)  but without impacting singleplayer gameplay or progress.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Quidfit said:
I just want to put out how I think a coop mode should work in bannerlord. I know it's unlikely to be considered but is there anywhere to submit suggestions?
I don't think TaleWorlds even reads suggestions. They didn't seem to before Warband launched.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Yeah like for real. A professional soldier could be in a battle for hours, and how long are the M&B ones? Each battle is like tops 20 minutes
Having Stamina is pointless as we travel on a world map and not like we do in Skyrim where it made a little sense
 

SenorZorros

Squire
I tend to disagree. the armour people wore could easily weigh 20 kg. not only that, it was quite thick and didn't breath at all. these things were quite hot to wear. I think that even a trained athlete would be tired after running an hour wearing medieval Armour.

I couldn't find any good sources but I believe medieval combat was a lot of maneuvering and trying to gain a better position. the actual melees wouldn't take that long. they would only start once one of the sides believed they had the better position and decided to charge. generally the battles were focused on winning with as few losses as possible since soldiers weren't cheap. once it became clear which side was at a disadvantage they tended to rout quickly.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
SenorZorros said:
I tend to disagree. the armour people wore could easily weigh 20 kg. not only that, it was quite thick and didn't breath at all. these things were quite hot to wear. I think that even a trained athlete would be tired after running an hour wearing medieval Armour.

I couldn't find any good sources but I believe medieval combat was a lot of maneuvering and trying to gain a better position. the actual melees wouldn't take that long. they would only start once one of the sides believed they had the better position and decided to charge. generally the battles were focused on winning with as few losses as possible since soldiers weren't cheap. once it became clear which side was at a disadvantage they tended to rout quickly.
Yea, but the weight was distributed between the shoulders and the waist, so it wouldn't feel that heavy.
Also, what kind of armor are we talking? Since Bannerlord is supposed to be around 11c, then full plate armor is pretty much completely off the table.
In this case the heaviest armors we talk about would be a gambeson for padding + a mail + maybe some sort of lamellar/scale armor on top. Mail breathes quite well, so does lamellar armor.
Lets also not forget, that most commonly the most heavily armored troops were the cavalry, while your typical infantry often didn't wear much more than a padded jacket/gambeson and a helmet. And those that did were most likely veterans of previous campaigns, so they wouldn't be quite as affected by fatigue.

I might be biased, but if you ask me, it all points towards not implementing stamina. Also, the maneuvering part is closer to what you do on the campaign map, not during battle. If anything, they could add something akin to what newer Total War titles have, a forced march stance, that would make you go faster on the map, but tire your troops out and debuff them/lower morale.
 

Rongar

Master Knight
M&BWB
KuroiNekouPL said:
Quidfit said:
I just want to put out how I think a coop mode should work in bannerlord. I know it's unlikely to be considered but is there anywhere to submit suggestions?
I don't think TaleWorlds even reads suggestions. They didn't seem to before Warband launched.
For M&B they definitely were reading suggestions. And I believe that they implemented those of them that were reasonable in sense effort-result.
But since that I don't think they need to read new suggestion because amount of suggestion that were made in time of M&B betas enough for 4-5 games. And frankly, I don't see really new suggestions.
 

Rongar

Master Knight
M&BWB
TheBarbarianGamer said:
Rongar said:
TheBarbarianGamer said:
you should not be able to turn your head 180 degrees and even more... 
There is not ablity to turn a head 180 degrees in WB or even in MB. However unability to turn head 180 degrees it does not mean that it's not possible to look back.

In the video the person did turn the head 180 degrees...
No. The person turns all torso, not just head.
 

SenorZorros

Squire
I am assuming a typical 11th century Norman knight wearing clothes, a gambeson, a hauberk, a Norman helmet, a coif, a shield, a sword, a spear and a water bottle.
now for the mass.
here I foud a chainmail+chain coif
http://www.medieval-market.com/goods.php?kategoria=10&kat2=Armament
which weighs in the ballpark of 12 kg... people were short so let's be nice and say 10 kg.
this is the first gambeson I found
http://www.medievalshoppe.com.au/buckle-up-black-gambeson-small/
http://www.medievalshoppe.com.au/green-arming-cap-medieval-padded-coif/
it's 2,4+0,25 for the arming cap. I round it to 2,5 kg
here I found a norman helmet
http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/armor/NormanHelmet/helmet.html
sadly the writer does not know English. instead of giving the weight he mutters some weird gibberish. 4 lbs 14 oz? well, I say 2 kilo and be done with it

they also wore some clothing.
according to this site modern boots weigh 1000 to 1400 gram
https://shopozz.com/en/weight#tab-2

assuming dark age boots wore about the same and the soldier wanted a pair of trousers as well as gloves and maybe some other accessorizes we can safely say they wore abut 3 kg of clothes.
this would give me an estimate of 17,5 kg for the armour.
now for the shield. they used a kite shield. according to this site:
http://www.mercwars.com/shieldtypes.shtml
it weighs about 4 kg.

the sword
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightly_sword
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/sword-norman-senlac-xas.htm
two sources say 1,1 kg. 1 kilo it is.
I can't find anything about the weight of a lance. therfore I link the a wooden bean
https://www.gamma.nl/assortiment/bouwhout-vuren-ruw-50x75-mm-270-cm/p/B339374
it is 5*7,5*270 cm and weighs 4,6 km. since a lance might be a bit thinner I say 4 kg.
1liter of water weighs 1 kg

so we get about 10 kg of equipment. with the armour that is about 27,5 kg.

now I would ask you to read this
http://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a6749/medieval-knights-on-a-treadmill-put-historical-myths-to-the-test/
it states that because the armour is distributed all over the body, including he arms and legs, it is actually more tiring to move in.

furthermore most battles were held in summer when it was about 20 degrees celcius or 298K. this means that the padding isolates quite well. if you don't believe me try walking around with  thick winter coat in the summer :wink:.
I do have to admit that it does breath though... that comment was a bit shortsighted. still, the fights themselves were rather short.

now to the game. I think the maneuvering is essential and should be improved upon by better terrain (no more ridiculous hills please especially around the northern beach). I do not believe this should be on the campaign map. it is all about getting your army in the optimal position to crush the opponent. this is already sort of in warband if you stop your troops from moving but I find it feel a bit on the clumsy side.

personally I think stamina could be a worthy addition but it is really hard to balance. it should not be to obvious and it should not have to much influence. it should only be a minor debuff which could maybe start to appear after more than a minute of continuous combat and should be relieved by resting.

EDIT:
Rongar said:
For M&B they definitely were reading suggestions. And I believe that they implemented those of them that were reasonable in sense effort-result.
But since that I don't think they need to read new suggestion because amount of suggestion that were made in time of M&B betas enough for 4-5 games. And frankly, I don't see really new suggestions.
then why haven't they already implemented the option to switch out troops :wink:
 

Sekij

Regular
WBNWVCWF&SM&B
So Stamina should be something on the Map, and if the Stamina meter is low in a battle you have disadvantages on your Body and your men. I think thats the most logical Stamina system no the Dark Souls style where you do 3 swings and than your out of stamina and 5 seconds later you are full of energy ^^"


Diasadvantages would be, slower run, slower hit and less damage by attack i quess ?
 
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