Mount & Blade 2: Bannerlord Video Review by IGN

[Underuse2307]

Clearly, since you seem to be under the impression that "release" is some magical switch that (somehow?) flips the game between incomplete/complete states, and not a marketing term that allows developers (or publishers) to claim whatever the hell they like.

That's exactly what it is. By the decision of the developer or designer it ceases to be a prototype and becomes the official "final" product.

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Full Release - PC & Console

Greetings warriors of Calradia! We’re thrilled to announce that Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord will release on PC & Consoles on October 25th, 2022. It will be available on Playstation 4, Playstation 5, Xbox One, Xbox One X and Xbox One S. We have developed Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord as a...

forums.taleworlds.com

Marketing term or not only they get to decide when their project is "ready". Whether you agree with it or not is totally irrelevant.

 

[Apocal]

That's exactly what it is. By the decision of the developer or designer it ceases to be a prototype and becomes the official "final" product.

There is nothing preventing a developer from continuing to significantly change the game after release (ex. Stellaris). At the same time, there is nothing forcing devs to actually change anything during their Early Access period.

Literally just a marketing term.

 

[Underuse2307]

There is nothing preventing a developer from continuing to significantly change the game after release (ex. Stellaris). At the same time, there is nothing forcing devs to actually change anything during their Early Access period.

irrelevant.

the contract now stipulates that you pay $50 for that version of the game. whether it gets improved or not is irrelevant. what they can't do is turn it on its head and into something else.

before you were paying $50 for a "work in progress". the big difference is that you should expect things to change.

words have meanings in this world dude. marking notwithstanding.

 

[Apocal]

what they can't do is turn it on its head and into something else.

Why not?

I mean, they won't but what is stopping TW from totally revamping the game?

words have meanings in this world dude. marking notwithstanding.

They clearly don't in this case, given that anyone can slap "EARLY ACCESS" on a buggy, half-finished release and the people who buy it aren't entitled to anything except the product, as-is. The developers don't have to improve it, they don't have to listen to the community, they don't have to do anything at all. You can't run to Valve and complain; they'll tell you to **** off if you played it more than two hours.

Because -- and this is key -- there isn't anything behind the term. Companies use it however they like. There is no one policing this.

 

[Underuse2307]

Why not?

I mean, they won't but what is stopping TW from totally revamping the game?

well the only example i know of a publisher who radically changed a game got sued to oblivion and was forced by law to issue refunds to those who requested them. what the publisher initially advertised was no longer what the people were getting..

given that anyone can slap "EARLY ACCESS" on a buggy, half-finished release and the people who buy it aren't entitled to anything except the product, as-is. The developers don't have to improve it, they don't have to listen to the community, they don't have to do anything at all.

im not a lawyer but again, even if the law cannot inforce it they would be sailing in the misleading/deceiving waters. their reputation would be on the line. people buy into EA with the understanding the product isnt finished. and the developer decides when it is.

 

[Mad Vader]

There is no one policing this.

Words don't mean anything and we are all doomed. Or...
Players are policing the Early Access label. Top Steam reviews for problem EA games are often about unresponsive devs, unfinished state of the released game, broken promises... so players DO enforce some common understanding of Early Access. And people like me read those reviews and decide to skip a game based on that.

 

[JunKeteer]

'Early Access' has been abused by studios, it was a novel idea a few years back, especially for indie/start-ups.
But now, it's just an enabler for more 'lazy' developments for games ('fix it later mentality') or excuse to cut out planned features. It's been used as an excuse to get money earlier but with no added responsibility/standards, whether we believe that should be the case or not. It's not hard to correlate the recent 'quality' of games and this movement with EA though; and BL is a perfect example of that.

Honestly, imo, if there is a paid EA release, there should also be a form of refund policy. So that there is a more weighted decision to bring something into 'EA' (vs beta or preorder connotation), get early player input/feedback absent 'official' reviews, alterations to the game, etc...

 

[froggyluv]

EA has definitely been abused I agree. That alongside making games more accessible (read:casual, stupid) and crossover to console -why are we then being asked to subsidize them dumbifying the game so that they can maker more money with consoles? Its a shame there is also this new breed of gamer who cheerleads the company's profits and popular success as more important than quality assurance to the gamer themselves. This brown nosing of capitol success is not unique to this industry but all over unfortuneately.

 

[JunKeteer]

EA has definitely been abused I agree. That alongside making games more accessible (read:casual, stupid) and crossover to console -why are we then being asked to subsidize them dumbifying the game so that they can maker more money with consoles? Its a shame there is also this new breed of gamer who cheerleads the company's profits and popular success as more important than quality assurance to the gamer themselves. This brown nosing of capitol success is not unique to this industry but all over unfortuneately.

If it was free EA, whatever, doesn't really matter. But asking to pay 'full' price for EA game that's still in development to get player feedback to help (regardless how well they actually use said feedback), where supposed advertised features get cancelled midway or dumbed down, that's where it isn't right.
Sure, technically, that legalese 'EA disclaimer' probably waives any sense of responsibility/liability/fault from the seller but it's just getting ridiculous the last few years.

If I'm to pay into an EA, with the mutual intention of the feedback loop with devs on improving a game, if the official release is not the game that I was expecting it to have been, I should have an option of a refund. Yes, this can be 'abused' by players too into playing a free under-developed game and not buying it at release, but, sorry, that should be the business risk in turning your game into a paid EA format vs just a closed/free-beta>full paid release methodology.
Can't eat your cake and have it too.

I sure as hell, knowing how this EA has been with it's questionable development pace/features/changes/cutbacks/cut content/genre change/etc...wouldn't have bought BL at this recent full release; but it is what it is at this point. We supported them in good faith (based on Warband), and a lot of us got taken advantage of that faith unfortunately.

 

[Apocal]

Players are policing the Early Access label.

Not really. Completed EA products that go into final release frequently have lackluster sales, even when delivering on their promises. Everyone interested in the game already bought it, played it, enjoyed it and moved on.

 

[xdj1nn]

I'm aware. I've played with the mod myself.

Your points are the most common complaints about Bannerlord, I'm not holding my hopes up much, TW will do little to adress those issues.

My point has been very much the same since 2016 - yes, they will do little to address anything really... Other less hotheaded members of the community repeatedly created suggestion threads ever since BL forums were created - and ever since TW has ignored everyone, literally...

The game boils down to this:

The battles are fun. Combat is fun. The rest of the game is fluff. Progression in the game is all about being able to participate in larger and larger battles - that's it, there's nothing else.

if you think doing the same thing over and over and over again is fun, than I must stop you right there - that's kid's take on fun, for any adult it's unbearable. - Combat in WB was fun with mods - and slightly better than BL in vanilla; That for SP, as for MP it was mostly fun because ppl were playing, not some braindead AI, and it wasn't about "big battles" in MP, at all... BL combat lacks variety, challenge and any sort of tactical thinking - it's a repetitive numbers game - either have greater numbers or units with the greater numbers in their Top Trumps cards, pick one of the couple formations that actually work in the current patch, send units, press f1 f3 - OR spam archers and rush to hills / spam Khan's Guards and manually "hit&run"... For 1v1 on AI it's either the AI suffering from severe mental impairment on easier difficulties, or in the hardest it's about pressing a different button so they stop super-human mind-reading blocks...

 

[Rabies]

if you think doing the same thing over and over and over again is fun, than I must stop you right there - that's kid's take on fun, for any adult it's unbearable.

Well, the entire game in concept revolves around a kid's idea of fun. I mean, we're playing at pretend medieval knights, for goodness sake. That's not a very grown up thing to do!

But I think the combat in Bannerlord is fun. I also think it's better than vanilla Warband.

 

[xdj1nn]

Well, the entire game in concept revolves around a kid's idea of fun. I mean, we're playing at pretend medieval knights, for goodness sake. That's not a very grown up thing to do!

lizard brain thinking at it's prime

 

[Grank]

Well, the entire game in concept revolves around a kid's idea of fun. I mean, we're playing at pretend medieval knights, for goodness sake. That's not a very grown up thing to do!

kek yeah. At the end of the day video games are just toys. It's for having fun. Thing is though, kids can have fun with a variety of things ranging from a simple stick to an elaborate pillow fort. Adults need their own adult toys to have fun. I guess they should just stick with those huh... get it? Stick those...

 

[xdj1nn]

kek yeah. At the end of the day video games are just toys. It's for having fun. Thing is though, kids can have fun with a variety of things ranging from a simple stick to an elaborate pillow fort. Adults need their own adult toys to have fun. I guess they should just stick with those huh... get it? Stick those...

both of your concepts of what's maturity needs some serious checking, just saying.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

words have meanings in this world dude. marking notwithstanding.

Words do have meaning, but they don't just arbitrarily control reality. In reality Early Access isnt enforced by law, players dont have any power to hold companies to account, and developers usually patch a game long after The official release anyway. Someone can say the phrase early access as much as they want, but what I really care about is actual results. This is why apocal and others just dismiss early access as a marketing tool, because it usually doesn't affect the release cycle at all. They released the game in 2020, everyone bought it in 2020. They released it "again" in 2022, and unsurprisingly hardly anyone bought it in 2022.

 

[xdj1nn]

Words do have meaning, but they don't just arbitrarily control reality. In reality Early Access isnt enforced by law, players dont have any power to hold companies to account, and developers usually patch a game long after The official release anyway. Someone can say the phrase early access as much as they want, but what I really care about is actual results. This is why apocal and others just dismiss early access as a marketing tool, because it usually doesn't affect the release cycle at all. They released the game in 2020, everyone bought it in 2020. They released it "again" in 2022, and unsurprisingly hardly anyone bought it in 2022.

should affect it, but
originally EA were Beta testing phases in the past, meant to fix &/or improve the game before actual release. Generally those were closed through invitation until someone figured that our lizard brains felt left out and started selling it, overtime it became this atrocity where it isn't beta and it isn't "release", the latter as convenience because any failure will be shrugged off as "not ready yet".
BL proves that point on many regards, the state it was released in 2020 is mostly what we're getting now save for technical fixes and their arbitrary sugar coat balancing.

about words:

 

[CrazyElf]

The only meaningful progression in the game is the progression through the scale of battles you are able to participate in, and you reach the top of that scale once you become a vassal. There is no progression beyond that, and essentially nothing else worthwhile to do in the game. There isn't any variety of pathways to this progression, either - everything except fighting battles is just a side-show, because it doesn't get you anywhere. Fighting battles is fun; the combat is fun. But after you've fought battles over and over again at the highest level and scale possible in the game, even they begin to get boring. There is nothing else to look forward to or work towards, nothing else to achieve. There is nothing else to do... so you stop playing.

Seems to me like there's a lot needed to be done for the late game.


In theory, founding one's own kingdom is an amazing achievement, but the kingdom management, both as a vassal and as a king are boring. There needs to be a lot more than just "fight and expand" to unite the map under you, which quickly gets repetitive.

And while we are on the topic of armor... they still need to streamline the armor values. Sometimes a metal helm+ cap has the same value as a padded coif, it's just absurd.

Yep - that's why I like RBM so much. The balancing is more sane.

 

[five bucks]

In theory, founding one's own kingdom is an amazing achievement, but the kingdom management, both as a vassal and as a king are boring.

One easy addition for TW would be for the player to get a crown given to them once they found a kingdom. With the crown they recieve depending on what starting culture they choose. That would add a bit more emphasis to being a ruler.

 

[Calabanar]

One easy addition for TW would be for the player to get a crown given to them once they found a kingdom. With the crown they recieve depending on what starting culture they choose. That would add a bit more emphasis to being a ruler.

Good idea for flare, but they should really focus on the functionnality... I never bother playing beyond early vassalage because everything gets tedious for no pay-off. No more difference in gameplay... Being a king? I guess there are the policies... that really don't change the way to play so... why bother?