Morphing in Bannerlord

[OurGloriousLeader]

The window for morphing and feinting is far smaller than warband (relative to the overall attack time), and being able to reset a released attack by hitting the ground (which isn't even doable for shorter weapons) is not exactly ideal control or intuitive, considering that there is a turnspeed lock (making it harder to suddenly drag an attack into the floor) and there is still a "reset" time from hits that connect with an obstacle. Warband is far simpler: for 95% of the time you are winding up or releasing, you can cancel or block during that time, and most weapons can be made to hit instantly or later. I don't think it's arguable that Warband is less complex and gives more control to the player.

 

[578]

The window for morphing and feinting is far smaller than warband (relative to the overall attack time), and being able to reset a released attack by hitting the ground (which isn't even doable for shorter weapons) is not exactly ideal control or intuitive, considering that there is a turnspeed lock (making it harder to suddenly drag an attack into the floor) and there is still a "reset" time from hits that connect with an obstacle. Warband is far simpler: for 95% of the time you are winding up or releasing, you can cancel or block during that time, and most weapons can be made to hit instantly or later. I don't think it's arguable that Warband is less complex and gives more control to the player.

You can hit the ground with all weapons and very short ones can do it aswell while crouching. It can be seen in many high-level duels when opponents suddenly change footwork pattern and a swing is at the start of the release. The turnspeed lock is there to avoid 360 turns like in chivalry, simple stuff like this is not limited by the lock. Warband is much more simple yeah, but I see the games for the control they offer within the skill gap they require or the systems at hand. Mordhau has no less control, but I get what you say. Warband is the CSGO of medieval games, Mordhau is like the battlefield/CSGO hybrid.

 

[Huggles]

By awkward I mean slower and less control e.g. much, much slower swings, and far more parts of animations where you are unable to block or cancel your strike (particularly noticeable in group fights where you need to react to changing situations more). Warband allows much more freedom of action and in this way is more forgiving, but creates a faster pace which can be frustrating for players.

That said, stabspam in Mordhau is no less spam so I wouldn't say Mordhau has successfully fixed that either.

I wouldn't say Mordhau is not complex; certainly more complex than Warband's combat system. You have 6 different attack directions, 2 stabs, which creates 24 morph variants, feints, ripostes, much longer release windows which creates far more timing issues for defense, a huge array of weapons like I said. Compare to Warband's 4 attack directions, feints, and much more forgiving block timing, it's easily the more simple game (and I prefer the latter).

100% (or as close as) readability is vital to a competitive melee game, too many unclear or abusable animations and the game will feel random and unfair. Warband is far more readable but doesn't solely come down to endurance, but allows outplays. Certainly endurance comes into it, and I find that more compelling than an arbitrary stamina bar anyway.

You can cancel at any point in windup, which is by far the biggest portion of any swing. If you could cancel in release you would not be able to read feints period. Spam in mordhau, much like spam in warband, is entirely the fault of the player who lets it happen and if you play properly spam doesn't exist period or can be immediately punished.

100% readability is terrible for a competitive melee game. Animations have nothing to do with readability in mordhau, the issue with readability comes to how you and your opponent are positioned relative to each other and the attack thrown. It's the tracers. It takes skill to put yourself in a position where your attack is very hard to read and it takes skill to avoid that position. It also takes skill to read the behavior of your opponent and figure out what he is doing independent of the tracers.

It is never random, if it were random then competitive fighting game players would lose to noobs who just got the game and decided to keyspam. Or they would lose an equal amount to players who just learned the game but have put nowhere near the hours or dedication. Same applies to mordhau. People who understand how the game works and what to do 200 hours in will still get melted by players 1k hours in.

 

[Revverie]

Mordhau announced as Game of Thrones sequel.  See Dany's grandchildren battle the White Walkers, led by Euron Greyjoy's bastard children.

Man this season was complete trash

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

You can cancel at any point in windup, which is by far the biggest portion of any swing. If you could cancel in release you would not be able to read feints period. Spam in mordhau, much like spam in warband, is entirely the fault of the player who lets it happen and if you play properly spam doesn't exist period or can be immediately punished.

100% readability is terrible for a competitive melee game. Animations have nothing to do with readability in mordhau, the issue with readability comes to how you and your opponent are positioned relative to each other and the attack thrown. It's the tracers. It takes skill to put yourself in a position where your attack is very hard to read and it takes skill to avoid that position. It also takes skill to read the behavior of your opponent and figure out what he is doing independent of the tracers.

It is never random, if it were random then competitive fighting game players would lose to noobs who just got the game and decided to keyspam. Or they would lose an equal amount to players who just learned the game but have put nowhere near the hours or dedication. Same applies to mordhau. People who understand how the game works and what to do 200 hours in will still get melted by players 1k hours in.

Windup isn't "by far" the biggest part of the swing, it's the greater part by 50-100ms or so only (which is usually about 20% slower), with the exception of the maul and a few other weapons with bigger windups, but also some 1 handers have quicker windups than the release. Of course you could read feints if you could cancel during release, we do this in Warband.

Feel like we're talking about different things regarding readability as I'm talking about animation quality.

 

[Desideratus]

Since this is still a "hot" topic I figure I would say my two cents: If Mordhau didn't have the customization and graphics it did, I would have stopped playing it after 10 hours. The combat is neither fluid, consistent, nor precise in its execution after playing Warband for so long. By far if Warband had the graphics Mordhau did, I would not touch Mordhau again. In the same vein if Bannerlord picks up Mordhau's combat I probably won't touch Bannerlord.

 

[genpredator]

Maybe thats cause you haven't played the game long enough to understand all the mechanics you can do. Its very deep and satisfying. Actually, have you even played the game? Everyone I seen play thinks the combat is good and very satisfying to land a kill.

 

[Desideratus]

I regularly do well and consistently go positive on K/D. Landing kills is perfectly satisfying, but only because of the audio & graphics, not because it was satisfying to outplay someone.

 

[578]

Its a different melee game, saying the combat is not consistent or fluid is just a blatant lie lmao

 

[Desideratus]

That's all well and good, I think you're wrong and I don't particularly care enough about Mordhau to get into a deep discussion as to why.

 

[578]

That's all well and good, I think you're wrong and I don't particularly care enough about Mordhau to get into a deep discussion as to why.

I think you're wrong and this is nothing but l2p issues. Good talk anyway.