More Tactics - simple ideas, could result in better gameplay

[Helmut_AUT]

Okay - like many others here, I'm not the only one having cut his teeth at some of the "realtime RTS" kind of tactic/strategy games (Medieval Total War and so on).

I know M&B is NOT one of them, and I don't want to make it one of them.

But, there are minor things (which I would assume even minor from a coding point of view) which could add a lot of realism and choice to engagement.

1) In the party screen, let us select "task priority" for each group of units or specific units. For example, I might want my cavalry to attack enemy archers. Or enemy cavalry. Or I might want my infantry to defend my own archers, which means not simple "attack" order but rather, stay near the archers, hit enemies targeting these archers.

2) I don't want the ability to change this on the fly in a battle, that would require a lot of GUI or Key presses. Let it be a kind of "default tactic" you can set in your party screen, kind of training your men to a specific style of battle. Basically for all three groups (Archers, Infantry, Cavalry) give an option to select "Attack" or "Defend" and then either Archers, Infantry or Cavalry. This would for example tell your Archers to preferable shoot enemies targeting your cav.

3) With this framework in place, let the AI randomly select their tactics versus the player. And maybe learn from it. So if the AI tries "Cav attack Archers; infantry defend Archers; Archers attack infantry" and if it's successful, let it try that tactic more often. The AI could also select tactics based on unit size.

4) Now, it might actually be possible to decide for an engagement if it's a defensive or offensive engagement. Right now, by default, the player can always set up a defense (Archers on high ground...) and wait for the AI to engage. What if the AI went defensive in some battles? For example, if you have bandits fleeing from you and chase them down, they would by default be Defensive. Which means the AI units all get a "defend each other" order and wouldn't move towards the player. Maybe, if you really want some clever programing, let defensive archers and infantry find the highest hill or tensest part of the forrest.


Right now (in M&B 1.011) the "Rock, Paper, Scissor" tactics approach which makes games like MTW fun (and is realistic) works to some degree. For example, I usually set my Archers to high ground, have infantry stand by them, and then try to lure the enemy into my arrow range while running a flank attack with my Cav. But I never see the enemy Cav trying to overrun unprotected Archers, or any of the other tactics I might try myself vs. the computer.

With the above "attack/defend" priorities for own troops and AI, battles would certainly gain another tactical layer.

 

[Kogrimar]

agree!!!!        But this would mean the AI has to think in terms of troops and types of units now, so that like in total war games, a AI cavalry unit would never attack spearmen, but maybe light infantry....      This would make battles far more interesting and allowing to do something else than infantry here, stand closer, archers here cavalry follow me, infantry and cavalry charge : which actually has a result like: cavalry attacking spearmen and infantry attackin archers....

            I think these king of things would be implemented with the new formation system developers are forging us, and I hope it would look more like what Helmut_AUT is willing to see.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

I purposely tried to think of a system that wouldn't need too much change either in AI or Interface.

In my understanding, the AI already DOES think in terms of troop type now (Archers, Cav, Infantry) so this system just adds on the existing system of troop classification (contrary to some suggestions I've seen about formations, regiments and such which would entirely reclassify and reorganize troop structure).

I don't know how the AI right now picks their targets - likely the closest enemy in view. But I can't be that difficult to modify this into picking the closest enemy of a certain kind. If no units of that type are present (no Archers for the enemy) then your Cav can pick any random target, as usual.

What might be a bit more AI-challenging is the Defense of own units, but that only means "knowing" that the enemy Type "Infantry" is set to attack "Archers" and if your job is to defend "Archers" you attack the closest enemy unit set to attack your Archers (could be only enemy infantry, or Cav, or a mix of two or three unit types). In a "Defensive Battle" (like when you chase down a bunch of fleeing bandits) the AI would simple try to get their Inf and Archers on the highest ground and set them to defend each other, which creates an acceptable though formation to beat.

I'm a part-time programmer (Database and Dynamic Websites, not games) so from my limited coding knowledge, this seems rather doable within existing AI functions.

As for the interface, that's why I said I'd put these "battle tactics template" on the Party Screen, so as to not clutter up the already extensive key commands in battle. It would be like having a commander meeting before battle and deciding on a tactic which - once the battle is running - can't be changed anymore, but that is realistic enough given the limits of communication back then. Making it like "Armed Assault" where every soldier has a personal radio and can be given totally different orders on the fly would not be right.

BTW, where did you read about a new formation system inbound? Would love to see that info.

 

[Kogrimar]

it'seen on some screenshots in which soldiers are marching in special formations. But it's sure they will had such thing, because so many mods include that type of command that it becomes needed, and maybe this goes with the "better AI" sentence.