Mongol Composite Bow VS English Longbow

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I know that Mongols used Composite Bows as their weapons, that was made by wood and horn.
Does it have longer range than English Longbow, that was only made by wood ??
I know Longbow could shot an arrow at long range and penetrated a knight's armor (Usually chain mail, because arrows are uneffective against steel/plate armor ), but Mongols used lamellar armor, Did longbow have more power and energy than composite bow ?
 
Err, arrows don't usually penetrate armour at long range. Mail armour is very effective against arrows, especially when used in combination with a heavy fabric defense.
 
Composite bows only offer an improvement over a similarly sized non-composite bow for the most part, and even then at lower draws it can actually work in reverse. The traditional Mongol bow is a horse archer's bow, designed to maximise the initial velocity of the arrow rather than for power. They use considerably lighter arrows than warbows, which works with the speed of the bow at the expense of the power it transfers when it finally hits. The longbow is a six foot long warbow intended to be used from a stationary, standing position and designed for power. It shoots much heavier arrows designed to transfer maximum energy to the target. It's a bit like comparing a pistol and a cannon, right down to hilarious failures if you tried swapping the ammunition between the two.

Night Ninja said:
Err, arrows don't usually penetrate armour at long range. Mail armour is very effective against arrows, especially when used in combination with a heavy fabric defense.
Yup, Crecy was the greatest known instance of spontaneous heart attacks in an attacking army yet known. Probably because the fat ****ers spent the entire morning stuffing their faces with croissants.
 
You should read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

Gerald of Wales commented on the power of the Welsh longbow in the 12th century
....."In the war against the Welsh, one of the men of arms was struck by an arrow shot at him by a Welshman. It went right through his thigh, high up, where it was protected inside and outside the leg by his iron cuirasses, and then through the skirt of his leather tunic; next it penetrated that part of the saddle which is called the alva or seat; and finally it lodged in his horse, driving so deep that it killed the animal"

In a modern test, a direct hit from a steel bodkin point penetrated Damascus chain armour
 
what about Turkish bow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mfr87HoLDs
 
Archonsod said:
The longbow is a six foot long warbow intended to be used from a stationary, standing position and designed for power.

there is some speculation (and if a French tapestry is accurate, some evidence) that the English used longbows on horseback.

Mike Loades  (a respected authority on medieval weapons and their use) proposed that at the Battle of Blanchetaque, the mounted longbowmen charged across the ford while shooting at the French on the other side of the river.

Loades even went on to shoot an English longbow from the back of a horse charging across a ford to show that it was physically possible
(it is in the longbow episode of Weapons that made Britain)
 
Night Ninja said:
Err, arrows don't usually penetrate armour at long range. Mail armour is very effective against arrows, especially when used in combination with a heavy fabric defense.
hmm, i thought mail was effective against cuts but was penetratd immediatly by pierce weapons due to the holes in it
 
mail and plate are worn over several layers of wool or linen or some other kind of padding.

this makes it quite good at stopping piercing attacks as well as cuts.

but then there wasn't the uniformity in the manufacture of metal, so some armour might have been weaker and therefore easier to pierce.
 
Doubtful. Not only would charging have required they run over their own men at arms who were advancing and fighting in the river at the time, but the English cavalry had to dismount to lead their horses over the river, so the odds of longbowmen managing to ride across is somewhat slim, given that warhorses tended to be a non-existent commodity amongst the peasants and yeomanry that made up the British longbow contingents.

Firing a longbow from horseback is possible, just as firing a mortar from horseback is possible. It's doing it effectively that's the problem. It's why the two bow designs emphasise very different traits.
 
Archonsod said:
Doubtful. Not only would charging have required they run over their own men at arms who were advancing and fighting in the river at the time, but the English cavalry had to dismount to lead their horses over the river, so the odds of longbowmen managing to ride across is somewhat slim, given that warhorses tended to be a nonexistent commodity amongst the peasants and yeomanry that made up the British longbow contingents.

Firing a longbow from horseback is possible, just as firing a mortar from horseback is possible. It's doing it effectively that's the problem. It's why the two bow designs emphasise very different traits.

What you mean to say is

DIE FOREINGERS!
 
As Arch says, longbows are made to transfer power efficiently to their heavy arrows. The heavy recurve of Asiatic bows increase cast efficiency, which is far more productive with an arrow that has little inertia. Longbow arrows could way in the 1000 grain range, up to 5 times heavier than some Asiatic arrows. Typical, Asiatic bows will outrage longbows. The absolute maximum for English style bows is about 300 yards. With Asiatic bow is something like 500. It should be noted that some Asiatic bows are built specifically for the novelty of making range records with traditional bows. The Tradtional Bowyers Bible, an old book, said the record was held by a Turkish flight bow built by an American, something like 550 yards.
 
Sushiman said:
What effect does a gambeson or something similar have to a bodkin tip that's already passed through a layer of mail?

Bodkins penetrate mail by forcing apart and breaking links. A geometry optimized for that is ****ing terrible at bulling its way through a lot of dense fabric. You need a sharp edge to cut through a heavy fabric defense like a gambeson.

Archonsod said:
Yup, Crecy was the greatest known instance of spontaneous heart attacks in an attacking army yet known. Probably because the fat ****ers spent the entire morning stuffing their faces with croissants.

More of French tactical incompetence. Bit of a tautology there.  :lol:
 
I noted two things. 1, he put the thing on a wooden box when shooting at it at a range of seven yards. And 2, there doesn't seem to be any mention of any links breaking when the arrows went through it just a slight flash of "sparks [that] flew from the links of steel as from a forge".
Stated that this is some sort of museum piece I'm quite skeptical as to what sort of curator would allow anyone to shoot arrows at priceless 15th century pieces of armor. Nonetheless I'll take it at face value.
However, I will note that the range that this took place is highly unusual also stated by this guy (second post down). Arrows seem to lose a lot of their power as they travel, at seven feet, while it is the strongest point in which the arrow will ever fly at, it's not wholly realistic of most, if not all battle conditions.
 
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