Mods may worth the wait but...

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Dulannjah

Regular
These well made mods won't come out soon as well as the native senario.Instead of that,they will take many years of effort and work before all these problems were ironed out.Becuase bannerlord is a much bigger project than warband.Even that full release of mount&blade 1.011( 2008 )takes several years as it turn to be warband from the earliest playable version 0.808(which could count as the early access of previous series)This means bannerlord is supposed to have many flaws in their design and some valid protential bugs when it is full released(if its official announcement of that confirmed in 2021).SO I doubt it will make a big progress until good dlc are released same as what M&B 1.011 did(yes warband is a dlc indeed),then modders truly have something fundamentally exist to do anything further.

Otherwise the game just keep making many confusing changes and mods never could be usable,not to mention a senario like prophesy of pendor.It still would have some mods to custom skins of soldier and equipment but lack of the soul,that means a well constructed outlook of the sand box world(the bannerlord itself has not got it yet,after all).If you install a mod,you probably find still in the world of calradia and it has something not so revelant to that mod.The true reason why these happened is Taleworlds only have around 100 staff in their company and they are almostly like the size of one department or branch office in a manufacture(which means they might be in short of time to deal with those massive daily works).

I understand they would love to fix bugs because the damn bug fixing things could let many famous studios spend their time to fix them with years and years of work,even they have much more resources.There's nothing I can do but wait for it.A better dlc is much more probably delicious and I think it has no need to get your hope up.The best solution is to try some other games if this waiting become too fraustrating,just let those core gamer and modders keep playing it.They will point out what this game is really lack of and where those problems are.

I would say talewolds,in their aspects also have a wrong thought that they should make some tiny changes to specially cater to all gamers but what we think is those things are unnecessary even negative to bannerlord.Back in the days,some part of the feedbacks were come from a group of people that even barely count as midcore gamer,they just spend some times to play the game and give it up quickly as what they did to newly come out 3A game.Those communities are like passengers on a bus,arrvive at some place and then leave(while taleworlds cannot realize different strokes never for different folks and every type of product exist for solid customer base).Then Taleworlds made inconsistent choices trying to make some change.But now things are going well becuase if you chat with these people still playing bannerlord or those keep waiting,you will find most of them are the truly ones who love mount&blade games.Taleworlds is a independent game workshop,not those 3A game developers.They should listen to their old friends or community really belongs to them.
 
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Gandamula

Sergeant
There are small mods that changes and add many stuff to the game, more troops, more immersion, more control to parties etc, but a overhaul mod must have the game finished, even those small mods are struggling with constant updates that spoils it. One of the best ones Party AI Overhaul, that allows us to set orders to our parties are broken and the modder disappeared, I lose half the fun with the game.
 
They should listen to their old friends or community really belongs to them.
No they shouldn't. They can take input from the community but they should do what they think is best. Being a long time fan doesn't somehow make your opinion better than someone new to the series. I really dislike this kind of attitude it's so elitist.

I really had difficulty trying to follow what the point of this thread was could you please try to summarize it?
 
No they shouldn't. They can take input from the community but they should do what they think is best. Being a long time fan doesn't somehow make your opinion better than someone new to the series. I really dislike this kind of attitude it's so elitist.
I disagree. I wish tw was able to take the chip off their shoulder and take more direction from the community about what this game needs whether it's from new or experienced players. the general direction of the game seems to not be in capable hands, as much as I used to trust armagan I surely do not now.
 

redmark

Squire
I disagree. I wish tw was able to take the chip off their shoulder and take more direction from the community about what this game needs whether it's from new or experienced players. the general direction of the game seems to not be in capable hands, as much as I used to trust armagan I surely do not now.
Which bit of the community, though? Those that want more RPG elements, quests and content you only see when walking through towns and villages? Those who want less RPG and never walk through a town? Those who want a faster paced game, or those who want slower? Those who want a medieval battle simulator, or those who want a grand strategy game with diplomatic and economic depth?

The core game must be defined by TW's vision, taking note of feedback but not being directed by the loudest voices. Then there'll be mods towards slow paced RPG, and mods towards fast moving battle action, and for everything else too.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Which bit of the community, though? Those that want more RPG elements, quests and content you only see when walking through towns and villages? Those who want less RPG and never walk through a town? Those who want a faster paced game, or those who want slower? Those who want a medieval battle simulator, or those who want a grand strategy game with diplomatic and economic depth?

The core game must be defined by TW's vision, taking note of feedback but not being directed by the loudest voices. Then there'll be mods towards slow paced RPG, and mods towards fast moving battle action, and for everything else too.

I havent seen anyone complain there is 'just too much Kingdom management and RPG elements'. Just because there are a wide variety of tastes dont just mean they should ignore the common elements of longstanding requests
 
Which bit of the community, though? Those that want more RPG elements, quests and content you only see when walking through towns and villages? Those who want less RPG and never walk through a town? Those who want a faster paced game, or those who want slower? Those who want a medieval battle simulator, or those who want a grand strategy game with diplomatic and economic depth?

The core game must be defined by TW's vision, taking note of feedback but not being directed by the loudest voices. Then there'll be mods towards slow paced RPG, and mods towards fast moving battle action, and for everything else too.
No I want them to listen to the general dismay about the core game. Everything is no steps forward two steps back. Base game is unplayable from sp and mp perspectives.

If I had my way they would start over or give up now and full release tools.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
If I had my way they would start over or give up now and full release tools.
Good thing you're not the one calling the shots then.

While I agree that the greee has many issues, saying that it is unplayable, at least for the SP portion is an extreme exaggeration.
 
Good thing you're not the one calling the shots then.

While I agree that the greee has many issues, saying that it is unplayable, at least for the SP portion is an extreme exaggeration.
You're right I am exaggerating and I would run the company into the ground lol :wink:

still I cant put more hours Into sp until they at least fix ai path finding, that is the final straw that makes it unplayable to me
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
These well made mods won't come out soon as well as the native senario.Instead of that,they will take many years of effort and work before all these problems were ironed out.Becuase bannerlord is a much bigger project than warband.Even that full release of mount&blade 1.011( 2008 )takes several years as it turn to be warband from the earliest playable version 0.808(which could count as the early access of previous series)This means bannerlord is supposed to have many flaws in their design and some valid protential bugs when it is full released(if its official announcement of that confirmed in 2021).SO I doubt it will make a big progress until good dlc are released same as what M&B 1.011 did(yes warband is a dlc indeed),then modders truly have something fundamentally exist to do anything further.

Otherwise the game just keep making many confusing changes and mods never could be usable,not to mention a senario like prophesy of pendor.It still would have some mods to custom skins of soldier and equipment but lack of the soul,that means a well constructed outlook of the sand box world(the bannerlord itself has not got it yet,after all).If you install a mod,you probably find still in the world of calradia and it has something not so revelant to that mod.The true reason why these happened is Taleworlds only have around 100 staff in their company and they are almostly like the size of one department or branch office in a manufacture(which means they might be in short of time to deal with those massive daily works).

I understand they would love to fix bugs because the damn bug fixing things could let many famous studios spend their time to fix them with years and years of work,even they have much more resources.There's nothing I can do but wait for it.A better dlc is much more probably delicious and I think it has no need to get your hope up.The best solution is to try some other games if this waiting become too fraustrating,just let those core gamer and modders keep playing it.They will point out what this game is really lack of and where those problems are.

I would say talewolds,in their aspects also have a wrong thought that they should make some tiny changes to specially cater to all gamers but what we think is those things are unnecessary even negative to bannerlord.Back in the days,some part of the feedbacks were come from a group of people that even barely count as midcore gamer,they just spend some times to play the game and give it up quickly as what they did to newly come out 3A game.Those communities are like passengers on a bus,arrvive at some place and then leave(while taleworlds cannot realize different strokes never for different folks and every type of product exist for solid customer base).Then Taleworlds made inconsistent choices trying to make some change.But now things are going well becuase if you chat with these people still playing bannerlord or those keep waiting,you will find most of them are the truly ones who love mount&blade games.Taleworlds is a independent game workshop,not the those 3A game developers.They should listen to their old friends or community really belongs to them.

I think I see where you are going and agree.

I honestly think Taleworld's is screwing up right now. They seem to be focusing on balancing, adding small quality of life features and other small changes which is resulting in a continuous stream of small patches. This is not what they should be doing and is actually acting against the best interests of the game. I mean I understand why a developer wants to strive for perfection but the reality is that no game is everything to everyone and no matter what they change, what features they add or how much balancing they do, it is not going to please everyone.

HOWEVER, ALL THIS CAN BE ADDED, CHANGED AND BALANCED BY MODDERS!!!

Also these mods will allow everyone to customize the game to their liking.

HOWEVER, MODDERS AREN'T GOING TO MOD IF THE GAME IS GETTING TONS OF MICROPATCHES BREAKING THE MODS EVERY FEW WEEKS!!!

My point is Taleworld's needs to stop worrying about the little things like balance, feature addition and things like this and focus on getting the game into a stable state that requires next to no patches. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS RELEASE THE FULL MODDING TOOLSET AND THE GAME AND STOP MESSING WITH IT SO MODDERS CAN MOD THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO FIX THEIR MODS EVER WEEK BECAUSE OF A NEW PATCH!!!

Sorry for the caps but I came back to the game after about 6 months kind of expecting things to be nearing finalization and all I found was tons of modders abandoning their mods, many specifically stating they "quit" until the game is released. The vast majority of the mods I used to use and consider required to enjoy the game are dead due to this issue and very few new mods are actually being added. This game is 100% about the mods. They will ALWAYS offer a better experience than native simply because what I said earlier. You can't please everyone however, everyone can "Mod" the game to their pleasure. Get the framework solid, release the most complete set of modding tool that you can, and everything else will take care of itself but that is not going to happen until Taleworld quits mucking around with it.
 
I disagree. I wish tw was able to take the chip off their shoulder and take more direction from the community about what this game needs whether it's from new or experienced players. the general direction of the game seems to not be in capable hands, as much as I used to trust armagan I surely do not now.
Honestly I don't think TW has a chip on their shoulder. I just think they either don't want to talk to the community or are afraid to for fear of saying the wrong thing. I agree that they really need to do something more with this game, and getting feedback from players is fine. But if they don't have a clear vision of what they want then this game really is ****ed and no amount of input from anyone will help.
 

AnandaShanti

Master Knight
It's tuff because I don't know anything about making games and have only done the most basic tinkering with warband and bannerlord, like just going in the text/xml and changing items/skill around. SO it's not like I can really say "this should be done" or in anyway know what to do. However there's whole pile of things in Bannerlord I think really hold it back from being a quality game and successor to warband and I really hope the Devs can eventually take it to heart that certain things just aren't okay. If they don't change stuff, hopefully modders will, but I really think core things like AI performance, commands and char development should be ironed out in native. It's going to be really weird if you need a buncha mods just to level up skills and make units not be in a pile and forget to shoot arrows and stuff :sad:
 

Apocal

Master Knight
I think I see where you are going and agree.

I honestly think Taleworld's is screwing up right now. They seem to be focusing on balancing, adding small quality of life features and other small changes which is resulting in a continuous stream of small patches. This is not what they should be doing and is actually acting against the best interests of the game. I mean I understand why a developer wants to strive for perfection but the reality is that no game is everything to everyone and no matter what they change, what features they add or how much balancing they do, it is not going to please everyone.

HOWEVER, ALL THIS CAN BE ADDED, CHANGED AND BALANCED BY MODDERS!!!

Also these mods will allow everyone to customize the game to their liking.

HOWEVER, MODDERS AREN'T GOING TO MOD IF THE GAME IS GETTING TONS OF MICROPATCHES BREAKING THE MODS EVERY FEW WEEKS!!!

My point is Taleworld's needs to stop worrying about the little things like balance, feature addition and things like this and focus on getting the game into a stable state that requires next to no patches. ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS RELEASE THE FULL MODDING TOOLSET AND THE GAME AND STOP MESSING WITH IT SO MODDERS CAN MOD THE GAME WITHOUT HAVING TO FIX THEIR MODS EVER WEEK BECAUSE OF A NEW PATCH!!!

Sorry for the caps but I came back to the game after about 6 months kind of expecting things to be nearing finalization and all I found was tons of modders abandoning their mods, many specifically stating they "quit" until the game is released. The vast majority of the mods I used to use and consider required to enjoy the game are dead due to this issue and very few new mods are actually being added. This game is 100% about the mods. They will ALWAYS offer a better experience than native simply because what I said earlier. You can't please everyone however, everyone can "Mod" the game to their pleasure. Get the framework solid, release the most complete set of modding tool that you can, and everything else will take care of itself but that is not going to happen until Taleworld quits mucking around with it.
I see the pendulum has once more swung from "TW where's my patch? get to work" back to "TW stop patching the game."
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
No they shouldn't. They can take input from the community but they should do what they think is best. Being a long time fan doesn't somehow make your opinion better than someone new to the series. I really dislike this kind of attitude it's so elitist.

I really had difficulty trying to follow what the point of this thread was could you please try to summarize it?
Its the new Steam players that know nothing about M&B that got them to combine children and dying of old age into the death options...so no, they should not listen to new players ever...they know nothing about this genre of game and the majority of them bought this game expecting something very different. They are the ones calling for removing the sandbox and options from this game. The ones demanding that all factions are equal, for balance. The ones that think that horse archers should not be better than normal archers and that their non-shield holding 2h axers should be on par with shielded knights nor should fall to archers before they get to them.

This game, was built BY the players. Warband and wFaS were based almost completely on modder ideas and Viking Invasion was made by TW AND the Brytenwalda modding team...aka, M&B players. So if they are going to listen to any players, it should be those that know the game and have loved it for such a long time that they kept the game company in business all these years. The elitist attitude comes from those that know nothing about the game, yet think their input is on par with those that do know it.
 
Its the new Steam players that know nothing about M&B that got them to combine children and dying of old age into the death options...so no, they should not listen to new players ever...they know nothing about this genre of game and the majority of them bought this game expecting something very different. They are the ones calling for removing the sandbox and options from this game. The ones demanding that all factions are equal, for balance. The ones that think that horse archers should not be better than normal archers and that their non-shield holding 2h axers should be on par with shielded knights nor should fall to archers before they get to them.

This game, was built BY the players. Warband and wFaS were based almost completely on modder ideas and Viking Invasion was made by TW AND the Brytenwalda modding team...aka, M&B players. So if they are going to listen to any players, it should be those that know the game and have loved it for such a long time that they kept the game company in business all these years. The elitist attitude comes from those that know nothing about the game, yet think their input is on par with those that do know it.
If you think TW did that because of players asking for it I think you're mistaken. TW did it because it because it was low effort. They have talked about death from old age and battles and birth for a long time this isn't something new. They did it that way because it was the easiest way to implement it.
If TW had based BL more closely on WB and VC then most of the complaints on the forums wouldn't be around or at least people would be happier about it. TW tried remaking the what they had and that had nothing to do with new players it has to do with TW "vision" whatever that may be. TW decide to revamp instead of iterating on what they had. Very few systems survived as they were. I don't agree with a lot of the changes but they have to make the game they want. Yes it's a good idea to get feedback and ideas from the community but building a game strictly around what players is no bueno. Design by committee is a sure way to kill a project.
It's tuff because I don't know anything about making games and have only done the most basic tinkering with warband and bannerlord, like just going in the text/xml and changing items/skill around. SO it's not like I can really say "this should be done" or in anyway know what to do. However there's whole pile of things in Bannerlord I think really hold it back from being a quality game and successor to warband and I really hope the Devs can eventually take it to heart that certain things just aren't okay. If they don't change stuff, hopefully modders will, but I really think core things like AI performance, commands and char development should be ironed out in native. It's going to be really weird if you need a buncha mods just to level up skills and make units not be in a pile and forget to shoot arrows and stuff :sad:
I'd say you and I are in pretty much agreement about the state of the game. I personally can't touch it for more than a couple hours at a time
because it's just too frustrating for me because QoL and core game play issues that need to be addressed. If they can get that stuff done then I'll be ok with it and I'll say let the modders have at it. If not then I won't come back to it for years because it'll take a lot talented people a ton of time to iron things out.
I see the pendulum has once more swung from "TW where's my patch? get to work" back to "TW stop patching the game."

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. ― John Lydgate

 
The plot thickens, Steam newf*gs have joined the enemy side.
To be fair, this forum sometimes isn't much better - "stop the patches, you are ruining the mods and chasing off the modders", "stop working on features I'm not interested in, and make sceners code or the other way around".
Player suggestions are not a replacement for a strong vision of the game design and the confidence from experience that underlies that design. But you need to listen to suggestions that have overwhelming player support or suggestions from knowledgable veterans that are usually about refining and details.
 

Sh1mbo

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Its the new Steam players that know nothing about M&B that got them to combine children and dying of old age into the death options...so no, they should not listen to new players ever...they know nothing about this genre of game and the majority of them bought this game expecting something very different. They are the ones calling for removing the sandbox and options from this game. The ones demanding that all factions are equal, for balance. The ones that think that horse archers should not be better than normal archers and that their non-shield holding 2h axers should be on par with shielded knights nor should fall to archers before they get to them.

This game, was built BY the players. Warband and wFaS were based almost completely on modder ideas and Viking Invasion was made by TW AND the Brytenwalda modding team...aka, M&B players. So if they are going to listen to any players, it should be those that know the game and have loved it for such a long time that they kept the game company in business all these years. The elitist attitude comes from those that know nothing about the game, yet think their input is on par with those that do know it.
+100 im so fking tired of those people wanting a total war or a crusader kings alike game
 

TheBerserk

Sergeant
Its the new Steam players that know nothing about M&B that got them to combine children and dying of old age into the death options...so no, they should not listen to new players ever...they know nothing about this genre of game and the majority of them bought this game expecting something very different. They are the ones calling for removing the sandbox and options from this game. The ones demanding that all factions are equal, for balance. The ones that think that horse archers should not be better than normal archers and that their non-shield holding 2h axers should be on par with shielded knights nor should fall to archers before they get to them.

This game, was built BY the players. Warband and wFaS were based almost completely on modder ideas and Viking Invasion was made by TW AND the Brytenwalda modding team...aka, M&B players. So if they are going to listen to any players, it should be those that know the game and have loved it for such a long time that they kept the game company in business all these years. The elitist attitude comes from those that know nothing about the game, yet think their input is on par with those that do know it.

+1

people who have not played old games or their old mods will not have a very viable opinion

and this is something that works for a lot of game licenses
 

bchv

Recruit
maybe in 2 years the base game will be finished... and i will a have to put a mountain of mods anyway to play it... TW should really listen to players and implement basics mechanics if they want a good succesor for warband (dont make the modders do all the hard work). Now its a waste of time, when you see updates that just break the game as you like to play it.... dissapointing and frustrating.
 
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