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Modified Combat Parameters
- 主题发起人 Silen
- 开始时间
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Maybe I should use different words because I know it took some time to test all this. But still, don't compare your work (few people work not just one, lets just add that) to the people that actually make this game and they give you the opportunity to change those numbers.
No offence to Silen and others, but please, enough with this hypocritism.
It is quite the difference when YOU are the target isn't it?
Anyway, my post was not intended to be toxic, sorry for that.
I get you, I feel speechless every time I see toxic threads bashing TW devs for combat. Nothing new.
If only life could be that simple, just to get move on things. One person like this other person like something different. Who is right in this?
That is the problem.
Those guys combat preference is mine combat hell.
Tell me then if you want, what is going on?
最后编辑:
I personally, nor Silen as far as i know, never bashed on the devs, we do know the efforts they put into making this game work, with some of them even share mutual respect and fondness, and all of that is the main reason of the increased quantity and quality of feedback concerning combat lately, as in the light of many previous events, they have a much harder time working than usual, and any help, even in a form of a little more complex suggestion like this one, could only help them, as that is the reason this thread is made.
This is an obvious missunderstanding from your part, as i now see you don't actually know what is really going on fully.
This is an obvious missunderstanding from your part, as i now see you don't actually know what is really going on fully.
最后编辑:
Dabos37
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Totally disagree. Even when real duels are pretty fast, people simply cannot teletransport their arms in order to do directional blocking. Currently in Bannerlord because of "multiplayer veterans", the characters are even blocking almost immediately regardless of animation. This does not look good and it could be a bad thing for some people like me.
Funny thing is that people are failing to see that Singleplayer is what most players and money will bring to this game, and singleplayers will probaby dislike the arcade and extremely fast combat system that veterans are trying to convince TW to implement.
@Ocean Rain
You know what would be interesting? That you try these parameters yourself; download the mod, try it out and draw your own conclusions through the sensations these new parameters bring to combat. After you have tried it, come back here and tell us what you thought... in the end you won't have to spend money, it's a free mod for and by the Community.
I encourage you to do it!
(*)I guess everyone we're talking about here have tried the mod, right?
You know what would be interesting? That you try these parameters yourself; download the mod, try it out and draw your own conclusions through the sensations these new parameters bring to combat. After you have tried it, come back here and tell us what you thought... in the end you won't have to spend money, it's a free mod for and by the Community.
I encourage you to do it!
(*)I guess everyone we're talking about here have tried the mod, right?
That was my plan from the very beginning, before this heated discussion occurred:
But I can't get this launcher to work.
The way I see it:
what is the potential playerbase for BL?
1. players coming from warband
2. players coming from mordhau
3. players coming from KCD
4. players coming from... skyrim?
5. players coming from a mix/all of those?
6. new players?
now answer yourself this: how many of them will want to play an arcade 360 spin fest that was WB in MP, and how many will be interested in a realistic physics based medieval styled combat rpg (according to steam the GENRE is: Action, RPG, Simulation, Strategy, Early Access)
In other words, how does TW go and make as many players happy without losing any playerbase? IMO, stick to your vision.
PS saying that realism is not the way is absurd IMO, think about the success of KCD.
what is the potential playerbase for BL?
1. players coming from warband
2. players coming from mordhau
3. players coming from KCD
4. players coming from... skyrim?
5. players coming from a mix/all of those?
6. new players?
now answer yourself this: how many of them will want to play an arcade 360 spin fest that was WB in MP, and how many will be interested in a realistic physics based medieval styled combat rpg (according to steam the GENRE is: Action, RPG, Simulation, Strategy, Early Access)
In other words, how does TW go and make as many players happy without losing any playerbase? IMO, stick to your vision.
PS saying that realism is not the way is absurd IMO, think about the success of KCD.
Exactly! Thats one of the things in my mind about Warband vs Bannerlord realism, but my language skills simply limiting me.
If we ignored realism, we could never moved on to better gaming experience. We would still playing games like GTA 2 instead of RDR or GTA V.
So don't underestimate realism.
Sure...follow the instructions carefully, you can't miss it.
Thanks, I'm gonna try it immediately.
You didn't understand what I said. It somewhat aligns with what you pointed out. Since it's a gamey representation of combat, we cannot have 100% freeform movement. Therefore in order to abstract game mechanics the 'arcadey' mechanics come in. Arcadey or unrealistic does not inherently mean bad, it works well for games that are well designed in that regard. Arcadey or unrealistic doesn't also inherently mean fast or slow, it just means well designed. For me, a well designed combat system is one which responds to my input. If I have the mechanical skill and reflexes to beat someone I should not be actively trying to beat the game delays as well.
I'm not interested in Singleplayer. I see and understand the appeal people have for it, but I'm not personally attracted to it. If MP had more thought put into it like it was promised many years ago, then MP could've been a valid and equally populated component of the game - there are not any obstacles for it with proper support. MP games these days are extremely popular and Warband certainly had a strong MP scene going on, despite it being statistically smaller than SP. It was still the highlight of many people's gaming experience, including mine, and we hosted and played in hundreds and hundreds of events, matches and tournaments.
What I do not understand is this part:
I don't think any player actually enjoys games which delay and restrict his input, even in Singleplayer. It'd be a pretty detrimental mechanic if in games like say, the Witcher(which I love), your actions had severe input delay. You want to fight enemies, not the game. I can't stress enough how much good, skill-based combat will benefit Singleplayer, and not just Multiplayer. We shouldn't be having this divide.
I should also add that Bannerlord is actually faster in certain mechanics than Warband, but Silen/Gab can elaborate more on the what and why of that since he's far ahead of me in the mechanics studying right now.
Enough people played Warband's multiplayer to form a thriving community that has sustained itself for 10 years. Not many games have accomplished this. Lack of accessibility is not an issue.
By trying to please everyone like you're mentionning, they're trying to make a new "Physics-based™" combat system that has no potential to sustain such a large and dedicated community, because there simply isn't any depth to this system. The extremely limited class/customization systems are also a major hindrance in that regard. If MP development is to proceed as it is now, which is to say very slowly and poorly, I can guarantee you nobody will be playing native singleplayer a few years down the line.
The majority of people that I've seen express positive opinions on this beta have been
1- SP players proclaiming that everything's fine, but that they don't care about MP and won't play it once Early Access starts.
OR
2- Those who've only recently started playing and don't have enough experience to understand what makes the combat bad.
OR
3- @Tork789
最后编辑:
You keep contradicting yourself as well. Read my reply now to Dabos in how I used 'realism' and dismissed it as an argument.
In your earlier post you claim Warband is arcadey due to being too fast, praising Bannerlord being more realistic because it's more sluggish.
Then I tell you that realistic would be fast and responsive, which is the opposite of Bannerlord and more akin to Warband. You cannot possibly keep exclaiming 'Bannerlord is good because realism' because it's literally the opposite of Bannerlord. And again, I do not think realism should be the primary guide to designing gameplay.
the fact that you consider warband a 360 spin fest shows us that you have no idea how warband combat works
I am not trying to be offensive or anything, I am just promoting an open mind to all of this.
It sounds like what you're saying is that your (hardcore WB fans) voice should matter more because you've been playing actively for 10 years.
What if you will still be playing BL (even being a bit upset about the mechanics) , but there will be a new and even larger playerbase that will enjoy current BL combat system and live on for 15 years?
SP vs MP isn't even an argument. It shouldn't matter how the game feels in Singleplayer vs how it feels in Multiplayer because they're the exact same combat system.
And if anything, MP is more important when it comes to balancing and nailing a good feeling of combat simply because of the PvP aspect. AI will undoubtedly be easier to kill and harder to adjust combat to, but as long as it's not mindless hordes of AI grouping together into a COD Zombies train, I'm sure the SP community will be having a great time.
Delays are, to put it plainly, the most obvious deterrent for the combat system to be liked. Casuals nor veterans enjoy input delay or lag time on their reactions, why would they? Casual players will have a hard time understanding why their attacks aren't going off as expected and veterans will be annoyed that the super responsive combat style of Warband, although janky at times, was replaced by a delayed "realistic" or "competitive" alternative. Any delay betrays the human reaction time and therefore betrays the player, even if every player is working at the same disadvantage, it's not a natural instinct to expect delay.
Some people mentioned the genre? The game's genre does not matter in this discussion almost at all.
If the game is a simulation of medieval combat, it needs to be more responsive, look up HEMA, I doubt you'd keep up.
If the game is meant to facilitate competitive balanced play in a MP environment, it needs to be more responsive, any shooter any MOBA any competitive game has a large reaction factor. There's a reason shooters don't add a ms delay to simulate "the time it takes to pull the trigger" because that would be dumb and ruin the flow of gameplay.
If the game is meant to be a casual SP only game with a light multiplayer presence, it needs to be JUST AS RESPONSIVE for single player combat.
If it's a RPG I don't want to be roleplaying as someone with input delay.
Honestly just go yoink the Warband values for the amount of time in between swings and blocking, maybe tone it back if needed, but it was overall just much better feeling. Not because it was fast, not because it was hyper realistic or arcadey, but because the attacking and blocking speeds were certainly more responsive and gave the player the better experience over the current state of Bannerlord.
And if anything, MP is more important when it comes to balancing and nailing a good feeling of combat simply because of the PvP aspect. AI will undoubtedly be easier to kill and harder to adjust combat to, but as long as it's not mindless hordes of AI grouping together into a COD Zombies train, I'm sure the SP community will be having a great time.
Delays are, to put it plainly, the most obvious deterrent for the combat system to be liked. Casuals nor veterans enjoy input delay or lag time on their reactions, why would they? Casual players will have a hard time understanding why their attacks aren't going off as expected and veterans will be annoyed that the super responsive combat style of Warband, although janky at times, was replaced by a delayed "realistic" or "competitive" alternative. Any delay betrays the human reaction time and therefore betrays the player, even if every player is working at the same disadvantage, it's not a natural instinct to expect delay.
Some people mentioned the genre? The game's genre does not matter in this discussion almost at all.
If the game is a simulation of medieval combat, it needs to be more responsive, look up HEMA, I doubt you'd keep up.
If the game is meant to facilitate competitive balanced play in a MP environment, it needs to be more responsive, any shooter any MOBA any competitive game has a large reaction factor. There's a reason shooters don't add a ms delay to simulate "the time it takes to pull the trigger" because that would be dumb and ruin the flow of gameplay.
If the game is meant to be a casual SP only game with a light multiplayer presence, it needs to be JUST AS RESPONSIVE for single player combat.
If it's a RPG I don't want to be roleplaying as someone with input delay.
Honestly just go yoink the Warband values for the amount of time in between swings and blocking, maybe tone it back if needed, but it was overall just much better feeling. Not because it was fast, not because it was hyper realistic or arcadey, but because the attacking and blocking speeds were certainly more responsive and gave the player the better experience over the current state of Bannerlord.
最后编辑:
This is literally the third result in youtube under "mount and blade warband duel and the first one I clicked.
