Modding VS Development

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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Hi guys, I have a quick question about modding. Now I am not a modder nor am I a game designer, don't know anything of these things. However, what I do know is, why are modders making the game soooo much better than the base game? Do modders have an advantage when modding the game? Why can't TW's 'use' these mods in their game, or design it in a similar way? Why can't the modding community and TW's work together?
 
Most game developers allow modders to improve their game because we gamers demand it. Modders do it for love and the craft, developers only do what they are paid to do.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Modders can decide an idea would improve the game and go for it without needing any permission and without worrying about being compatible with any other upcoming changes. That's the advantage, they can just do what they want/can. TW has to get permission to do anything. If they worked with modders they would have to do work to make sure everything was compatible. I mean, there's always annoying bugs that take 2 months to fix in updates anyways, so it's not like anything could get worse , but whatever.

TW I need the garrisons fixed, I can't deal with troops getting thrown out or recruits getting shoved in forever, it's just.... why play... why? Oh boy more useless fiefs I can't use because I can't control the garrison? Ruins the whole mid game on.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Most game developers allow modders to improve their game because we gamers demand it. Modders do it for love and the craft, developers only do what they are paid to do.
Yea true, would be great if they can work together!
Modders can decide an idea would improve the game and go for it without needing any permission and without worrying about being compatible with any other upcoming changes. That's the advantage, they can just do what they want/can. TW has to get permission to do anything. If they worked with modders they would have to do work to make sure everything was compatible. I mean, there's always annoying bugs that take 2 months to fix in updates anyways, so it's not like anything could get worse , but whatever.

TW I need the garrisons fixed, I can't deal with troops getting thrown out or recruits getting shoved in forever, it's just.... why play... why? Oh boy more useless fiefs I can't use because I can't control the garrison? Ruins the whole mid game on.
Yea that's the thing, modders make the game great by adding these features, but I don't think I haven't seen it being implemented in the base game.
 

Askey

Veteran
Why can't TW's 'use' these mods in their game.....Why can't the modding community and TW's work together?

Because Taleworlds is too bloody proud. There are a myriad of examples clearly showing modders trying to fix certain things and implementing certain features quickly. Even downright offering to test certain aspects of the game, but getting shut down by Taleworlds. Taleworlds can't stand the idea of others gaining any kind of credit and there is tons of evidence in these forums to support this.
Plus to top it off, Callum's political/diplomatic, tone deaf replies and approach to the communities problems with the game don't help much.

If you're wondering what I'm talking about, ask some of the older disgruntled members of this community and they will show you links to certain posts etc.
 
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Spinozart1

Squire
TW devs are employees and have to follow management decisions.
Main motivation is a stable situation with monthly salary... And of course providing creativity and good quality work.

Modders are free of any pressure from above.
Main motivation is sharing their creativity and having more fun with the game.
 
Modders have advantage of freedom, passion (otherwise they would not do it) and no responsibility (ak they can leave, or afford to not update for long time etc). Devs at this stage of development do not have true freedom, have deadlines and passion for project is bonus not must for them.
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
Modders have advantage of freedom, passion (otherwise they would not do it) and no responsibility (ak they can leave, or afford to not update for long time etc). Devs at this stage of development do not have true freedom, have deadlines and passion for project is bonus not must for them.
+1. Everyone has different preferences. TW must aim to please most of the people most of the time to maximise sales. This cuts minority or controversial features, which modders can add without caring that they only appeal to a section of the playerbase. Those that don't like them don't have to install them. I doubt many players will opt for identical mod stacks.

PS TW know this and are trying to make BL moddable or this reason.


Edit: Also modders can be cavalier about their mods working on weird hardware architectures and can ignore the game's minimum PC specs, by just saying you'll need adequate kit or it works on my pc the problem must be at your end.
 
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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
I agree to all this! I understand that TW's has pristine and set goals, where as modern can make anything anytime.
Because Taleworlds is too bloody proud. There are a myriad of examples clearly showing modders trying to fix certain things and implementing certain features quickly. Even downright offering to test certain aspects of the game, but getting shut down by Taleworlds. Taleworlds can't stand the idea of others gaining any kind of credit and there is tons of evidence in these forums to support this.
Plus to top it off, Callum's political/diplomatic, tone deaf replies and approach to the communities problems with the game don't help much.

If you're wondering what I'm talking about, ask some of the older disgruntled members of this community and they will show you links to certain posts etc.
Not sure why they'll be proud, what should they be proud of?? I haven't seen anything that TW's doesn't like ideas from mods, nor have I seen any appreciation, which is sad, (unless if I missed it?). IF TW's doesn't like these ideas, why have modding then? Oh ik so that people can play the modded version of the game instead of base game. Just guessing.
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
I agree to all this! I understand that TW's has pristine and set goals, where as modern can make anything anytime.

Not sure why they'll be proud, what should they be proud of?? I haven't seen anything that TW's doesn't like ideas from mods, nor have I seen any appreciation, which is sad, (unless if I missed it?). IF TW's doesn't like these ideas, why have modding then? Oh ik so that people can play the modded version of the game instead of base game. Just guessing.
TW is appreciative of single-player mods. However, for unfathomable reasons they are blocking custom multiplayer servers until after full release, and have taken down a third party custom server. Allegations were made that the action resulted from injured pride. IDK if that's true or a misinterpretation of events/communications.

PS IIRC the modded custom server relied heavily on the more open architecture of the closed multiplayer beta test version. An outdated version they have no intention of supporting.
PPS As a single-player my interest in multi-player aspects of BL is extremely casual, so my grasp of the facts may be limited.
 
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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
TW is appreciative of single-player mods. However, for unfathomable reasons they are blocking custom multiplayer servers until after full release, and have taken down a third party custom server. Allegations were made that the action resulted from injured pride. IDK if that's true or a misinterpretation of events/communications.
Yea I noticed single player is the main focus for this game. Hmm I'll find it weird if that's the case but who knows. I would like custum servers with some mods in.
PS IIRC the modded custom server relied heavily on the more open architecture of the closed multiplayer beta test version. An outdated version they have no intention of supporting.
Hmm interesting
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Modders have advantage of freedom, passion (otherwise they would not do it) and no responsibility (ak they can leave, or afford to not update for long time etc). Devs at this stage of development do not have true freedom, have deadlines and passion for project is bonus not must for them.
What you say is true, but tbf a game designer must look at the game as a whole and how a feature will impact the whole game. Modders don't need to worry about balance which is why many mods cause big imbalances. I'm not accusing you of not looking at the big picture yourself because I think your mod is ****ing fantastic and a must have for this game. I'm just speaking of modding in general. To me that's the biggest difference and why many mods can't be added without major changes to the base game.
 

Moton

Squire
Hi guys, I have a quick question about modding. Now I am not a modder nor am I a game designer, don't know anything of these things. However, what I do know is, why are modders making the game soooo much better than the base game? Do modders have an advantage when modding the game? Why can't TW's 'use' these mods in their game, or design it in a similar way? Why can't the modding community and TW's work together?

Modders do whatever the **** they want and game developers has to do what they are told to do by people that maybe does not know what makes a game fun.
 

Svang

Sergeant at Arms
I think TW has been in development hell for so long that all their employees lost interest years ago. Now it's just a job to them, no passion whatsoever.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
Why can't TW's 'use' these mods in their game, or design it in a similar way?
They "can" implement mods ofcause. But I don't think them not doing so is mainly pride.

If they implement mods just like nothing, many modders would likely have split feelings about it. But also a bit of theft unless they get recognition for it.
Another issue is a legal aspect. Who owns the mod? It´s creaters ofc but anyone can claim to be a creator. Who can prove it? It´s easy to set it up to make it legally impossible to disprove that your claim is right.
 
They "can" implement mods ofcause. But I don't think them not doing so is mainly pride.

If they implement mods just like nothing, many modders would likely have split feelings about it. But also a bit of theft unless they get recognition for it.
Another issue is a legal aspect. Who owns the mod? It´s creaters ofc but anyone can claim to be a creator. Who can prove it? It´s easy to set it up to make it legally impossible to disprove that your claim is right.
You can literally show your nexus page with your published mods.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
You can literally show your nexus page with your published mods.
How is that content controlled? What stops a user to republish someone elses mod as his own? Or steal major parts of it? Nexus is a major player but not all mods goes there, there are other distibutionchanells.

As a company, I´d hesitate implementing stuff if there was 1% uncertanty of the ownership in case of a legal claim. And I´d say it´s legally impossible to prove or deprove any claim of ownership.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
How is that content controlled? What stops a user to republish someone elses mod as his own? Or steal major parts of it? Nexus is a major player but not all mods goes there, there are other distibutionchanells.

As a company, I´d hesitate implementing stuff if there was 1% uncertanty of the ownership in case of a legal claim. And I´d say it´s legally impossible to prove or deprove any claim of ownership.
Yea I get what you're saying, developers can't just 'steal' these ideas from modders. But wouldn't it be cool if a modder would mod a certain feature that the devs liked, and pay them for it to implement it in the game?
 

MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
How is that content controlled? What stops a user to republish someone elses mod as his own? Or steal major parts of it? Nexus is a major player but not all mods goes there, there are other distibutionchanells.
You can't just assume mods are stolen. When that actually happens, the original author makes a complaint which may or may not bring down the stolen stuff and its author. But most importantly, the issue becomes known in the player and modder community (who love drama).
Modders claim authorship just like anyone else publishing their stuff online by implicitly asserting "I made dis".
 
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