Modding Bannerlord - Questions

[horns]

Personally, I am a bit opposed to restricting users from adding things to their own private load order. Seems to run contrary to the spirit of modding.

Definitely for single-player but I am interested to see how they handle the multiplayer aspect. Say someone makes an auto-block mod and has it enabled; how would a native multiplayer server handle it? It seems like managing this situation would be difficult without some kind of white-listing available for servers.

 

[Slawtering]

Haven't really been on TW forums for a while so reading through this got me really excited and with the talk of the server side stuff inside the newest blog I could genuinely see me trying to make a mod (especially now I'm eager and a bit more experienced).

 

[Duh]

Q&A going on with gkx on the reddit discord.

Edith: https://discord.gg/Z7DHN8

 

[HyperCharge]

Q&A going on with gkx on the reddit discord.

Will we be able to adjust who we can talk to? In warband, if you want no talking, there was an operation ( mission_enable-disable_talk ) to do this. But I wonder if we change it. For example; I added a sitting man to the scene. But, I am not supposed to talk with him. So no talking button for him.



Can we make warband mod to bannerlord? xd

 

[Reus]

I thought I'd gather the information from the Q&A here, so here it is. I've cleaned them up a little bit regarding some of the grammar since it was all happening in a live chat.

I would like an easier way to implement and duplicate scenes. I think it'd be a lot easier if everything was grouped together, and have terrain seed intergrated into the scene file.
There is a prefab system you can use you save any entity hiearchy as prefab and use them in any scene, you can select them from searchable and previewed list.

So if I wanted to make a exact copy, scenes and everything, of BLord's praven counterpart, I could create a prefab and load it?
Create them once and use it in any scene you want.

For the scene editor - the more scripted behavior we can test out in the editor the better (dont have to load the game).
You can start missions from editor.

And my year old suggestion (that will never happen) cooperative scening over a server.
No multi people scene editing at same time sorry.

Is there a quick way to add particle effects such as fire to a weapon without extensive use of coding?
You can create a prefab with both sword and particle and from code you will only need add prefab to correct bone. We have a nice particle editor with curves and so.

Is the main menu animated? Can we record our own loop and replace it for the main menu?
Main menu is a scene just like all the scenes, with a camera entity tagged, you can replace it with any scene.

Live editing would be a godsend. It’s annoying having to constantly close and re-open the game to test out the smallest change.
Lots of things can be edited realtime you update an XML and it will reload automaticly but for somethings you will need to restart mission. Also you can update textures meshes animations in realtime.

Material editing - do we get nice nodes and properties like in UE4?
No shader graph sorry. But we have a material editor you can select your shader, textures according to it and you can enable and disable its features like self illumination, casts shadows etc.

What language will shaders support?
Shaders are HLSL.

 

[Duh]

Cheers for the effort Reus! I think there were a few more things roughly like:

- Could you consider an encrypted signature for assets (scenes,etc) created with the game tools?
There is no such things atm and this is no confirmation that there ever will be such a thing - but it is good to get the feedback that some folks are interested in such a thing.

-Will we get access to the shader source files?
Not decided, but (repetition of Reus) we have a material editor you can select your shader, textures according to it and you can enable and disable its features like self illumination, casts shadowd etc

-To what extent will modders be able to access and/or tweak the random scene generation for battles?
Didn't get an answer out of him (prolly didnt see). Just posting this as a reminder to ask again.

-"i’m still sad that it’s not possible to have multiple layers of terrain in a scene
like you can’t dig underground without making meshes for it like we do now"
GKX: terrain is 2d unfortunately you need to meshes for underground tunnels

Somewhat random comment by gkx:
"you can nearly create a new game using scripts as you can do with Unity"

I think that was all/most of em.




On a sidenote - Gkx specifically asked:
hi all, anyone for up for a little feedback for modding bannerlord
Ok then tell me what is it you want most from our tools and so?
[lotsa questions]
btw aside questions i asked what you want most about modding, if you share that too i will be pleased

We noted the following:
-Most wanted - I presume most folks just want things to be more moddable than Warband. It may also be good to pose that question in the forge for all the modders to see
-Another wish would be a barebones "module system/game variant". Something that would have all non-essentials stripped so that modders would have to add all playable content - as an added benefit that would remove pretty much all fears that the system is more restrictive than warband (for which modders had to create a barebones MS themselves)
-you asked what we wanted most about modding, id want mods to be downloadable through the game somehow when joining a server instead of having to go to a website and download module system, i think that would help mods maintain their player counts
-i think a similar question (related to MP servers) was whether it would be possible to forward a player from 1 server to another(bearbeitet)
-A few wishes too: Dedicated face editing tool with visual representation of the NPC's equipped/equipable items, and live editing to avoid constantly loading/closing the game to make minor tweaks and changes.
- Shader source



Please share your wishes/thoughts/questions here as well. I will try to forward them to gkx. Keep in mind that he works on the engine.

 

[NPC99]

My most wanted modding tool for BL is a campaign map editor.

 

[Reus]

I've picked up some more information which might prove useful for anyone trying to get a headstart with modeling. In Bannerlord, body armors sit roughly around 15.000 polygons and 5-6 levels of LODs. I don't remember if there were any specifics about weapon polygon count, but they are varied depending on how recent each model is. The textures are 2K by default, but 4K is possible. I think we knew this already, though.

 

[NPC99]

I've picked up some more information which might prove useful for anyone trying to get a headstart with modeling. In Bannerlord, body armors sit roughly around 15.000 polygons and 5-6 levels of LODs. I don't remember if there were any specifics about weapon polygon count, but they are varied depending on how recent each model is. The textures are 2K by default, but 4K is possible. I think we knew this already, though.

5-6 levels of LODs is interesting, I had assumed it would still be 4. Your poly count seems slightly higher than the numbers given by Ümit Singil in his DevBlog:

WHAT IS THE POLY COUNT FOR WEAPONS?
“The models for both weapons and armour vary a lot, since they come with several pieces. Polygon count for an armour set is usually between 8000-12000 triangles.
In the case of weapons (which are created in multiple parts so that they are compatible with our new weapon crafting system) I will use a sword as an example:”
•Blade: 120-1302
•Guard: 320-1396
•Handle: 96-928
•Pommel: 144-1244

 

[Reus]

5-6 levels of LODs is interesting, I had assumed it would still be 4. Your poly count seems slightly higher than the numbers given by Ümit Singil in his DevBlog:

WHAT IS THE POLY COUNT FOR WEAPONS?
“The models for both weapons and armour vary a lot, since they come with several pieces. Polygon count for an armour set is usually between 8000-12000 triangles.
In the case of weapons (which are created in multiple parts so that they are compatible with our new weapon crafting system) I will use a sword as an example:”
•Blade: 120-1302
•Guard: 320-1396
•Handle: 96-928
•Pommel: 144-1244

I completely forgot we had gotten this information some time back. I would assume that the difference in poly count is because of the standards being raised with time. I was told that the further into the Bannerlord's development we get, the higher the poly count gets. I don't know if the 15000 is an average or just an example of the highest count currently in the game. I would guess it's the latter since an average of 15000 would be quite a large step up from what was mentioned in the blog. Either way I guess we learned something new about the LODs.

 

[NPC99]

5-6 levels of LODs is interesting, I had assumed it would still be 4. Your poly count seems slightly higher than the numbers given by Ümit Singil in his DevBlog:

WHAT IS THE POLY COUNT FOR WEAPONS?
“The models for both weapons and armour vary a lot, since they come with several pieces. Polygon count for an armour set is usually between 8000-12000 triangles.
In the case of weapons (which are created in multiple parts so that they are compatible with our new weapon crafting system) I will use a sword as an example:”
•Blade: 120-1302
•Guard: 320-1396
•Handle: 96-928
•Pommel: 144-1244

I completely forgot we had gotten this information some time back. I would assume that the difference in poly count is because of the standards being raised with time. I was told that the further into the Bannerlord's development we get, the higher the poly count gets. I don't know if the 15000 is an average or just an example of the highest count currently in the game. I would guess it's the latter since an average of 15000 would be quite a large step up from what was mentioned in the blog. Either way I guess we learned something new about the LODs.

Maybe, Ümit Singil's 8,000-12,000 polys just refers to the torso armour and your average 15,000 includes helmets, boots and gloves. That might be more understandable as his DevBlog wasn't that long ago.


PS there’s an old 2015 post from gkx confirming that map icons of the player/lords look the same as their characters in scenes. So, one of the extra LODs must be for use on the campaign map. That might even stop people from OSPing models without LODs.

 

[Marko͘]

Here's an updated list of the original questions not answered yet.

From the original questions by the modders:

[b]General questions [/b]
1. Assuming C#/.net integration:
Will it be proper .NET integration (as in we can build and inject our own dll into the game in some way) or just the syntax of C# and the compiling will be done by some bannerlord tool instead?
2. Are we going to see a return of the module system and its scripts, like last time, or will we be scripting in another way?
3. Can you share the windmill script mentioned in the engine video (Blog 8 ) as an example of what coding might look like?
4. Would you be willing to share the Bannerlord equivalent of Warband's header_operations?
5. Would you be willing to share a base human model for reference before the game comes out?
6. Would you partner with a team to create a stand alone offering? 
7. Are multiple game/world maps possible?
8. Do you have a hard limit for the number of world map terrain types and map icons?
9. Is seafaring/battles implemented? If not, will it be possible for modders to introduce seafaring (f.e. by teleporting a party unto sea terrain and changing its icon)?
10. Can the clipping plane distances (near/far) be changed? (In Warband we only could change the far clipping distance via module.ini)

[b]Coding[/b]
11. Can moving objects (e.g. missiles) be manipulated on the fly? (Would allow us to apply dynamic friction/drag, wind and aerodynamic lift)
12. Can animation-speeds be changed dynamically, without messing around with weapon proficiencies or -stats?

[b]Debugging[/b]
13. Can we debug code at runtime using variable inspection, break points, variable value manipulation, etc ? In other words, will we get a version of the game .exe that allows debugging our mods? 
14. Will we have more control for logging data? Warband requires use of Edit Mode and only uses one file (rgl_log.txt), we could use different modes so logging is available on normal gaming (to support bug reporting), and the use of different files would simplify testing individual mods.
15. What strategy is being used for testing code? Will we get the modsys with unit tests included? Are mocks being used? Or is it dependent on the engine for running?
16. Warband allows for quick reloading (refreshing) of the game code after compilation. Will we have this for Bannerlord as well?
17. Will we have an ingame tool to create bug reports? If so, what will players be able to submit (img, txt, savegame, logs, etc.)?

[b]Scenes[/b]
18. To what extent will modders be able to access and/or tweak the random scene generation for battles?
19. In the Engine Power dev blog we were shown new scening mechanics such as animated objects (windmills rotating), multi-material painting and the decal system. What other new features do we get with the new scening tool?

[b]Items/Textures/Animations/Shaders/Sounds/Etc[/b]
20. What sort of metadata is set around the new weapon component (and armor?) system
21. Will it be possible to create new item types?
22. Any information on how the new sound engine works? How many sounds can be played at once? What file format is used? How does the engine handle music transitions? What will be available for the modder to change and adjust?
23. Will we be able to dynamically change a sound's volume and frequency? (So we could create some filters for distant sounds or underwater/indoor sounds)
24. Will firearms be supported? Will there be a (hidden) firearms weapon type proficiency again?

[b]Multiplayer/Server-Client[/b]
25. Can a server provide players with neccesary files/code modifications upon joining/after asking for permission?
26. Will we have full control of all data which is send between server and clients? (Pretty useful for optimization purposes, e.g. reducing network traffic in order to maximize the possible player count)
27. Is it possible to send data from client to client directly (P2P)? (Could be useful to reduce the server's traffic aswell)
28. What is the native admin system like?
29. Is the custom smithing feature available for multiplayer? If not, is it possible to port it?
30. Will we be able to send http requests; post and get?
31. Will it theoretically be possible to implement an ingame voice-chat?
32. When a player is on a server can you connect/move him to another server if he performs a particular action?

Questions not yet submitted:

1. Will a MP server be able to query a database directly instead of using a website as a proxy?
2. Will you provide a framework for mods to utilize assets from several TW games and/or DLCs (by f.e. requiring the player to own the respective products)?
Modify message
3. Will the development tools include TW's library of C# operations in the absence of a proprietary programming language like Warband's? 
4. Which version of Mono/.NET (and which version of C#) does the game utilise?
5. To what extent will modders be able to access and/or tweak the random scene generation for battles?

Responses on Discord and reddit were added to the OP as answered questions.

 

[NPC99]

Number 3 was answered by Gökalp Doğan in his 26/10/17 blog

http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/31

He showed us the script component in the right hand window of his last screenshot.

PS you can read it better from the dev blog by clicking on the image & enlarging it.

 

[Reus]

To add onto the discussion about polycount, here's a quote from the new development blog. "I try to be economical with the poly count of course: a full set of armour, head to toe, usually comes to around 7000-10000 polygons."

 

[kalarhan]

To add onto the discussion about polycount, here's a quote from the new development blog.

plus this

It takes about 2 weeks from scratch to create a fully functional game model. This includes designing, redefining, low-poly, texturing, skinning etc.”

about 80 hours of work for 1 model (good info for anyone learning about this stuff and planning a mod with the same level of visual quality).

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

If it takes them 80 hours to make one of those armours, that goes a long way to explain why the game is taking so long.

 

[Mandible]

If it takes them 80 hours to make one of those armours, that goes a long way to explain why the game is taking so long.

This is not abnormal in game development. A lot of that time is taken up on design iteration, passing the model between departments, rigging and animating, etc. Two weeks is a perfectly reasonable (actually pretty fast) turnaround for high quality armor models. These things take time.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

I think I have a pretty good idea of how long these things take.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It doesn't help that many of their designs are absurdly intricate while also being pretty boring to look at. This for example must have been an absolute nightmare to make, but in the end it's just a sort of brown apple pie mess. The texture even seems to be stretched on the character.

Spoiler

 

[NPC99]

The texture even seems to be stretched on the character.

Spoiler

I was surprised by stretching on the belt until I realised it was caused by the character’s girth. Clearly, allowing players to vary their body shapes has consequences. Might be wise to stick with a default body shape after all, but that probably won’t stop the shoulder pads stretching as arms move.

I wonder if the approval process requires armours to pass on two/+ extremes of the body shape spectrum.