Modders need to fix the game

[babelfisch]

I reckon the most part of those who said that wasn't even half serious.

I don't know, I've seen all kinds of crap.

 

[Mad Vader]

I don't know, I've seen all kinds of crap.

You really like to portray people as extremist men made of straw just to attack them.
What would be desirable in an ideal world is for competent modders to take over the scripting and some of the modelling, which is what they are doing anyway - not work on the engine, as this is not their competence. It won't happen for all kinds of reasons, but we are lucky to have Duh, a former modder, as part of the development team.

 

[babelfisch]

You really like to portray people as extremist men made of straw just to attack them.

I would prefer you don't make up crap about me. Please point out where I attacked anyone directly.

 

[Mad Vader]

I would prefer you don't make up crap about me. Please point out where I attacked anyone directly.

You have claimed that modders taking over development is a widespread suggestion (presumably by the unwashed, modder-worshipping masses), which is a ridiculous claim and a straw man argument. You made this up specifically to help you in your struggle against the unwarranted modder good reputation, which for some reason bothers you a lot.

 

[babelfisch]

You have claimed that modders taking over development is a widespread suggestion (presumably by the unwashed, modder-worshipping masses), which is a ridiculous claim and a straw man argument. You made this up specifically to help you in your struggle against the unwarranted modder good reputation, which for some reason bothers you a lot.

Stop putting words in my mouth. If you have an issue with something I said, quote me directly and address what I said rather than making up random nonsense.

 

[xdj1nn]

They are not paid by a regular job, but they sometimes ask for donations.

Aside from that, they can work on whatever they want, whenever they want and take all the time they want and do it however they feel it should be done. There is no way to compare someone like that to someone accountable for something that they make a living on, that have to justify their working hours and follow a hierarchical structure. Look how many abandoned mods are left over at Nexus.

bad management is the companies fault, not to be excused.
btw, only ahole modders demand donations for their work, asking for donations while still providing free content is wrong where?

 

[xdj1nn]

A developer needs to design a game that works for thousands of people.
A modder just needs to design a game for himself.

Let's take Rome 2 for example. Originally each turn was 1 season / turn = 1 year. Many people didn't like that and the first thing we did was changing it to 1 season / turn = 3 months. However, I soon realised that I conquered the whole map 200 years B.C. And even when I installed lots of mods to make the game harder, it would still require hundreds of hours to reach the year 0. Gameplay wise it made totally sense that CA skipped one year each turn, even when the majority of the community was against it. A modder doesn't need to care about it because his changes are completely optional.

Lot's of people are asking for a co-op function and I get where they are coming from. But as an official feature it would just suck. Pausing the game every time someone leaves the campaign map is just bad design. If you don't care about it, it's perfectly fine to have it as a mod though.

Viking Conquest was barely playable for the first 5 years after release. And even now the game is full of questionable design decisions. The sea battles for example are simply annoying, I guess most professional developers would have realised that they aren't good gameplay and remove the feature.

Then you can take a look at Skyrim and all the silly skimpy armours. But even the other stuff often doesn't fit the lore. And when it fits the lore, the art style doesn't fit to the game. It's nice to have awesome textures, but if they don't fit to the rest of the graphics you can always tell that they are coming from a mod.

I can list you mods for many games that are considered essential to almost every single game that supports mods. I still think you are crusading through non-sense logic...

Then you can take a look at Skyrim and all the silly skimpy armours. But even the other stuff often doesn't fit the lore. And when it fits the lore, the art style doesn't fit to the game. It's nice to have awesome textures, but if they don't fit to the rest of the graphics you can always tell that they are coming from a mod.

and this part just made me cringe, this is the most absurd fallacy I've ever read about Skyrim mods. The list of quintessential mods is gigantic, and most if not all of them basically correct the game to be what it should've been as vanilla, that includes perk mods, mods to fix shouting usefulness, magic balance....

 

[babelfisch]

I can list you mods for many games that are considered essential to almost every single game that supports mods. I still think you are crusading through non-sense logic...

and this part just made me cringe, this is the most absurd fallacy I've ever read about Skyrim mods. The list of quintessential mods is gigantic, and most if not all of them basically correct the game to be what it should've been as vanilla, that includes perk mods, mods to fix shouting usefulness, magic balance....

Sorry but you are completely wrong in my opinion. I wouldn't install the vast majority of Skyrim mods, the game would be awful and unplayable if you install them all. In fact, it wouldn't even run. Even STEP only uses a small fraction of all mods available and it takes a considerable amount of time to get them all running.
Of course it's nice to have a few (optional) mods, but just because you like mod X it doesn't mean I enjoy it too. The only 'quintessential' mod for Skyrim is the community patch.
There are 60000 mods on Skyrim Nexus.

By the way, you didn't even address the point I made which means you either didn't read my post or didn't understand it before replying. I have no interest in an argument that is based on ignorance.

 

[xdj1nn]

Sorry but you are completely wrong in my opinion. I wouldn't install the vast majority of Skyrim mods, the game would be awful and unplayable if you install them all. In fact, it wouldn't even run. Even STEP only uses a small fraction of all mods available and it takes a considerable amount of time to get them all running.
Of course it's nice to have a few (optional) mods, but just because you like mod X it doesn't mean I enjoy it too. The only 'quintessential' mod for Skyrim is the community patch.
There are 60000 mods on Skyrim Nexus.

By the way, you didn't even address the point I made which means you either didn't read my post or didn't understand it before replying. I have no interest in an argument that is based on ignorance.

not talking about me, talking about statistics and community feedback, you could be the exception, but it doesn't make it less of a fallacy.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

I would but I'm busy.

 

[sniparsexe]

I think some people grossly overestimate the requirements for being hired in a game company. Taleworlds like most companies isn't made of industry veterans, it's a mass of students and interns led by a handful of administrators or friends of the lead developers. Armagan began by posting on forums asking for help with his pet project. His coding skills are, to put it bluntly, kind of atrocious, and most mods have better code than the base game by a large margin. The company is mostly interns from what I've seen and heard. In fact some of the most skilled developers in Taleworlds that I'm aware of were modders previously.

This is true, I was trying to find some information about sales through their employees Linkedin accounts (I found that Bannerlord sold above 500k copies in China lol), from what I saw most of their employees are inexperienced, Armagan was saying this too. There isn't enough know-how in Turkey. There are some veterans who have 10-15 years of experience but most of them are <5 years.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

There are some veterans who have 10-15 years of experience but most of them are <5 years.

A lot of them are basically from the university which is less than 100m away from taleworld's's's's''ss offices. I can see why they do it but it's a recipe for disaster.

I found that Bannerlord sold above 500k copies in China lol

Damn this is news to me.

 

[Mad Vader]

(I found that Bannerlord sold above 500k copies in China lol)

Plot twist: all of them were sold in Hong Kong. Alternative plot twist: all of them were bought by Turk-supporting Uyghurs.
Jokes aside, it may be hard to believe they sold that much until you remember how many Chinese gamers are there (734 trillion?), and the stereotype about China is that they either pirate Western games or play a local knock-off (that steals all its assets and adds superhuman jumping) or both.

 

[Revverie]

Lot's of people are asking for a co-op function and I get where they are coming from. But as an official feature it would just suck. Pausing the game every time someone leaves the campaign map is just bad design. If you don't care about it, it's perfectly fine to have it as a mod though.

Huhh... you do know that modders are working on the co op mode and they've solved this issue without sacrificing gameplay? If a company cant figure out a good design for a mode but modders can, that is saying something wrong about a company lmfao, and not that I hate TW, but you just have to be creative, and they have the funds to experiment and sort things out, but instead of sorting that out they threw out to the garbage bin, just like many other systems that existed in Warband and they decided not to implement here.

 

[Kut]

Huhh... you do know that modders are working on the co op mode and they've solved this issue without sacrificing gameplay? If a company cant figure out a good design for a mode but modders can, that is saying something wrong about a company lmfao, and not that I hate TW, but you just have to be creative, and they have the funds to experiment and sort things out, but instead of sorting that out they threw out to the garbage bin, just like many other systems that existed in Warband and they decided not to implement here.

They sacrificed, afaik.

Like players cannot do quests, if player 1 engages a battle, player 2 will be almost freeze in campaign map, etc...

 

[Revverie]

They sacrificed, afaik.

Like players cannot do quests, if player 1 engages a battle, player 2 will be almost freeze in campaign map, etc...

Quests are not available in V1, they will later add them, the quest that's disabled is the main quest and honestly who wants to do that. And player 2 will slow down, something completely different than just stoping the game, and not as annoying, probably you'll be just a while walking around until you find an activity.

 

[Bloc]

A lot of them are basically from the university which is less than 100m away from taleworld's's's's''ss offices

No, they are not.

 

[babelfisch]

not talking about me, talking about statistics and community feedback, you could be the exception, but it doesn't make it less of a fallacy.

An exception to what? I truly believe you missed it that I enjoy and play lots of mods myself, and I have lots of respect for all the very talented modders. And even the guys who aren't talented but still want to help bigger projects sometimes put hours of effort into boring tasks, and that's something I respect as well. That wasn't the point though.

 

[Kut]

Quests are not available in V1, they will later add them, the quest that's disabled is the main quest and honestly who wants to do that. And player 2 will slow down, something completely different than just stoping the game, and not as annoying, probably you'll be just a while walking around until you find an activity.

Understood. I thought not just the main quests but all the quests will be disabled. I might need to check it again.

Campaign map time speed in 1x still more more faster than interaction time speed. It's real-time. If campaign map time speed is slower than 1x, like 0.2, 0.3 or 0.4 etc. this might heavily effect the gameplay experience. When you, let's say entered a battle, whole Calradia's time schedule almost stopping. Because one day in Calradia equals to 50-60 or 80 something real-time seconds.

If they're bending the game design not so much annoying style, then for a mod it's acceptable and it's a congratulatory work. If it's otherwise, than basically they're killing the game's own experience for two-player playability.

Probably TW cannot sacrifice this much. (it's much requested, but anyways) For the sake of a mechanic, they cannot restrict the whole experience of the game from a holistic perspective. I'm not expert game designer or sh*t, but this is my thinking.

Catching the golden spot greatly matters. I hope they can catch this. Both TW and modding community.

 

[babelfisch]

Understood. I thought not just the main quests but all the quests will be disabled. I might need to check it again.

Campaign map time speed in 1x still more more faster than interaction time speed. It's real-time. If campaign map time speed is slower than 1x, like 0.2, 0.3 or 0.4 etc. this might heavily effect the gameplay experience. When you, let's say entered a battle, whole Calradia's time schedule almost stopping. Because one day in Calradia equals to 50-60 or 80 something real-time seconds.

If they're bending the game design not so much annoying style, then for a mod it's acceptable and it's a congratulatory work. If it's otherwise, than basically they're killing the game's own experience for two-player playability.

Probably TW cannot sacrifice this much. (it's much requested, but anyways) For the sake of a mechanic, they cannot restrict the whole experience of the game from a holistic perspective. I'm not expert game designer or sh*t, but this is my thinking.

Catching the golden spot greatly matters. I hope they can catch this. Both TW and modding community.

Fully agree with you. Officially integrating coop would sacrifice intended gameplay. As a mod it's perfect though, being optional without big expectations. Which is why I don't get the problem, modders already successfully integrated it, there is absolutely no need to make it an official feature.