Minor Factions

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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Hey guys, So I was snooping through the docs in Bannerlord, and I came across something, quite interesting, in terms of the minor factions.

game_menu id="minor_faction_base" on_init="game_menu_minor_faction_base_on_init" flags="0x200" color="0x0" default_text="{=9OaaK18j}Minor Faction Base" mesh_name="amb_attack_scene_bg">
<menu_option id="talk_with_minor_faction_leader" text="{=hm4FQCE1}Talk with leader." on_condition="talk_with_minor_faction_leader_on_condition" on_consequence="talk_with_minor_faction_leader_on_consequence" />
<menu_option id="leave" text="{=2YYRyrOO}Leave..." on_consequence="game_menu_minor_faction_base_on_consequence" />


Minor faction base???? I've never heard of this before, was this mentioned?

Also I found another one under 'minor factions conversation', looks like we're going to get more interactions with minor factions now, which is great. I am not going to copy it here, cause it's too much, but I'll show you a bit on it.

<string id="skolderbrotva_positive.default" text="{=IaDMibIE}They're boastful, contemptuous bastards, but if you hire them, you never need worry about getting your money's worth.">

So, I think with this one, we can hire their troops?

MERCENARIES
// skolderbrotva
// Company of Catalans
// Ghulams
// Lost legion

BANDIT LIKE
// Jawwal Nomadic Bedouin Tribe
// Brotherhood of the woods - outlaws
// The Hidden Ones
// Wolfskins
// Khuzait Slave Tribe

// TOO COMPLICATED Hashashins/Father of Night
// TOO COMPLICATED - Slave Revolt

//REDUNDANT?
// Varangian Guard


And this part is the end of the texts, the too complicated ones, sounds interesting but, i don't think they'll be in game, sadly.
 
Well, I saw those lines also but since there is also unused code(for a half year) or even questions like "these could be old quests"(in some quest xml docs), I thing only TW could answer you if they have a plan regarding that. @Dejan do you have any Infos about that?
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
The minor faction bases appeared in the E3 2016 video for the first time; it was safe to say that these were a part of the gang system.

QewCKIz.png


For some reason due to design decisions these were removed or hidden (plausible) given that in later gameplay demos (2017-2020) there was no sign of them. Perhaps they have been cut out or the devs are simply holding them in pits due to a parallel mechanic not yet implemented; just like banners.

Here are the facts, here are your conclusions 😌 🎻 .
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
The minor faction bases appeared in the E3 2016 video for the first time; it was safe to say that these were a part of the gang system.

QewCKIz.png


For some reason due to design decisions these were removed or hidden (plausible) given that in later gameplay demos (2017-2020) there was no sign of them. Perhaps they have been cut out or the devs are simply holding them in pits due to a parallel mechanic not yet implemented; just like banners.

Here are the facts, here are your conclusions 😌 🎻 .
Oh wow, another let down, would've been good to have. "Cough" mods "cough"
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
The minor faction bases appeared in the E3 2016 video for the first time; it was safe to say that these were a part of the gang system.

QewCKIz.png


For some reason due to design decisions these were removed or hidden (plausible) given that in later gameplay demos (2017-2020) there was no sign of them. Perhaps they have been cut out or the devs are simply holding them in pits due to a parallel mechanic not yet implemented; just like banners.

Here are the facts, here are your conclusions 😌 🎻 .
This goes well with the fact that someone on these forums said they suppose the great design shift happened around 2016, when the game shifted from it's previous design to a new more sterile one. It may be due to a change of staff or input of new decision-makers. But in general, a very disappointing turn.
Oh wow, another let down, would've been good to have. "Cough" mods "cough"
It is saddening to see so many people put their trust of fixing the game onto modders, especially when most of the modders sent the protest letter to TW. Also, since Bloc apparently left others may follow
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
It is true that everything points to the fact that the bases issue has been discarded; BUT, unlike for example "the ambushes" where it was officially communicated to have been dropped, Taleworlds has not officially pronounced (if they have, please correct me) regarding the issue we are dealing with in this thread.
 

danEN

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
The minor faction bases appeared in the E3 2016 video for the first time; it was safe to say that these were a part of the gang system.

QewCKIz.png


For some reason due to design decisions these were removed or hidden (plausible) given that in later gameplay demos (2017-2020) there was no sign of them. Perhaps they have been cut out or the devs are simply holding them in pits due to a parallel mechanic not yet implemented; just like banners.

Here are the facts, here are your conclusions 😌 🎻 .
giphy.gif
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
It is true that everything points to the fact that the bases issue has been discarded; BUT, unlike for example "the ambushes" where it was officially communicated to have been dropped, Taleworlds has not officially pronounced (if they have, please correct me) regarding the issue we are dealing with in this thread.
As far as I am aware, I think they were dropped because of a supposed lack of "gameplay value" (I do not remember which dev said this, I think Duh). Afaik, the question they asked themselves was what could the player do in the bases, what it would add to the experience, and in the end dropped in for its complexity. Duh, if you're reading this and I remembered wrong that you replied, please correct me.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
I've seen more stuff like this in the files. Dialogue for requesting an attack on a city and stuff like that. Since we know that won't be used it makes me think none of this stuff will. It just feels like they want to get it to a stable position and move on from this game tbh.


Edit: This, from the lord_conversations.xml in the Native folder.
<Conversations>
<conversation id="1109" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_predemand" text="{=fBt8X6Tw}Eh? What do you want?" ostate="lord_demand" />
<conversation id="1110" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_demand" text="{=gZSdus34}I offer you one chance to surrender or die." ostate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" />
<conversation id="1119" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_demand" text="{=M7O3AItb}Forgive me. It's nothing." ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1111" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" text="{=ltS8zmH8}Are you mad? I'm not your enemy." ostate="lord_attack_verify" />
<conversation id="1112" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify" text="{=HEJOdRwi}Forgive me, {?NPC.GENDER}madame{?}sir{\?}. I don't know what I was thinking." on_consequence="conversation_lord_attack_verify_cancel_on_consequence" ostate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" />
<conversation id="1113" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" text="{=vsxVIDqT}Be gone, then." ostate="close_window" />
<conversation id="1115" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" text="{=WzipKNWN}{s43}" ostate="lord_attack_verify_b" />
<conversation id="1116" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_b" text="{=8xvSu9fX}Forgive me {?NPC.GENDER}madame{?}sir{\?}. I don't know what I was thinking." ostate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" />
<conversation id="1117" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_b" text="{=HKMdHYb7}I stand my ground. Prepare to fight!" ostate="lord_attack_verify_commit" />
<conversation id="1118" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_commit" text="{=!}You should not see this." ostate="close_window" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=fbM7drKO}Why do not you besiege..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_is_in_same_faction_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_besiege_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=ztuhSo8h}Why do not you raid..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_is_in_same_faction_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_raid_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=62AkUCOw}Why do not you defend..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_defend_options_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_defend_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" text="{=s61RscYw}Where?" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=5ypRJiWZ}Thanks for information" ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" is_repeatable="true" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options" text="{=JbWJ7Rxl}{POSSIBLE_TARGET}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason" text="{=RJbrrM0K}{REASON}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason_on_condition" />
<conversation id="1149" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" text="{=hjZkoJbc}I think {ACTION} {SETTLEMENT} is more logical currently, can you help me in doing this. {AMOUNT}{GOLD_ICON}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_on_condition" />
<conversation id="1150" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" text="{=5ypRJiWZ}Thanks for information" ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer" text="{=GUIwjFKP}Ok, let's follow your advice first." ostate="lord_pretalk" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer_on_consequence" />
</Conversations>
What's that for?
 
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Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Too complicated for who?
For the devs to make

I've seen more stuff like this in the files. Dialogue for requesting an attack on a city and stuff like that. Since we know that won't be used it makes me think none of this stuff will. It just feels like they want to get it to a stable position and move on from this game tbh.


Edit: This, from the lord_conversations.xml in the Native folder.
<Conversations>
<conversation id="1109" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_predemand" text="{=fBt8X6Tw}Eh? What do you want?" ostate="lord_demand" />
<conversation id="1110" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_demand" text="{=gZSdus34}I offer you one chance to surrender or die." ostate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" />
<conversation id="1119" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_demand" text="{=M7O3AItb}Forgive me. It's nothing." ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1111" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" text="{=ltS8zmH8}Are you mad? I'm not your enemy." ostate="lord_attack_verify" />
<conversation id="1112" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify" text="{=HEJOdRwi}Forgive me, {?NPC.GENDER}madame{?}sir{\?}. I don't know what I was thinking." on_consequence="conversation_lord_attack_verify_cancel_on_consequence" ostate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" />
<conversation id="1113" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" text="{=vsxVIDqT}Be gone, then." ostate="close_window" />
<conversation id="1115" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_ultimatum_surrender" text="{=WzipKNWN}{s43}" ostate="lord_attack_verify_b" />
<conversation id="1116" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_b" text="{=8xvSu9fX}Forgive me {?NPC.GENDER}madame{?}sir{\?}. I don't know what I was thinking." ostate="lord_attack_verify_cancel" />
<conversation id="1117" is_player="true" utterer="0x10FFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_b" text="{=HKMdHYb7}I stand my ground. Prepare to fight!" ostate="lord_attack_verify_commit" />
<conversation id="1118" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_attack_verify_commit" text="{=!}You should not see this." ostate="close_window" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=fbM7drKO}Why do not you besiege..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_is_in_same_faction_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_besiege_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=ztuhSo8h}Why do not you raid..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_is_in_same_faction_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_raid_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=62AkUCOw}Why do not you defend..." ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_defend_options_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_defend_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_pre" text="{=s61RscYw}Where?" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer" text="{=5ypRJiWZ}Thanks for information" ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1148" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" is_repeatable="true" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options" text="{=JbWJ7Rxl}{POSSIBLE_TARGET}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_on_consequence" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason" text="{=RJbrrM0K}{REASON}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_answer_options_reason_on_condition" />
<conversation id="1149" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" text="{=hjZkoJbc}I think {ACTION} {SETTLEMENT} is more logical currently, can you help me in doing this. {AMOUNT}{GOLD_ICON}" ostate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_on_condition" />
<conversation id="1150" is_player="true" utterer="0x13FFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince" text="{=5ypRJiWZ}Thanks for information" ostate="lord_pretalk" />
<conversation id="1148" utterer="0xFFF" istate="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer" text="{=GUIwjFKP}Ok, let's follow your advice first." ostate="lord_pretalk" on_condition="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer_on_condition" on_consequence="lord_tell_objective_player_try_to_convince_lord_answer_on_consequence" />
</Conversations>
What's that for?
Yea I saw this too, maybe this is the one that you can tell lords to follow you and you can tell them where to go? And you have to pay them for it? So many questions yet we don't have answers for it
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Edit: This, from the lord_conversations.xml in the Native folder.

What's that for?
Yea I saw this too, maybe this is the one that you can tell lords to follow you and you can tell them where to go? And you have to pay them for it? So many questions yet we don't have answers for it
That's almost literally a copy-paste job from Warband, guys. A lot of the dialogue related stuff is like that. It doesn't mean anything except they were max-lazy when bringing over things they thought they could re-use without too much modification.
 
Minor factions were hyped up to be a really cool feature in the old dev blogs, but instead feel like someone had grand plans but gave up after a few days of work, and decided to just leave it in the game. They could've definitely added a lot to the game and the concept is great but has absolutely no purpose. You can't interact with them outside of killing them or having them hired as another horde of mindless orcs to throw into the never-ending meat grinder.
As far as I am aware, I think they were dropped because of a supposed lack of "gameplay value"
When Rockstar made Red Dead Redemption 2, I wish that they never included NPC dialogue interactions, snow physics, beautiful landscapes, all that attention to detail on practically everything, endless amounts of those voice lines, and side activities like hunting, fishing, and mini-games, due to there being no gameplay value in those things. It would've been so much better if all of those things were never in the game to begin with, and Rockstar focused more on the action instead of that useless fluff that adds nothing to the game. I am so glad that Bannerlord focuses on nothing like that and instead just focuses on the action, instead of all those useless "features" that the haters want.

All those little details and minor features that were in Warband, Warband mods, and Viking Conquest that are completely missing in Bannerlord due to "no gameplay value", seriously take away so much from Bannerlord. The minor features and immersion features really add up when you include many of them. It gets worse when Bannerlord includes new things and then does absolutely nothing noteworthy or interesting with them, not even adding life, like minor factions. The result is a game with no soul.
 

Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Minor factions were hyped up to be a really cool feature in the old dev blogs, but instead feel like someone had grand plans but gave up after a few days of work, and decided to just leave it in the game. They could've definitely added a lot to the game and the concept is great but has absolutely no purpose. You can't interact with them outside of killing them or having them hired as another horde of mindless orcs to throw into the never-ending meat grinder.

When Rockstar made Red Dead Redemption 2, I wish that they never included NPC dialogue interactions, snow physics, beautiful landscapes, all that attention to detail on practically everything, endless amounts of those voice lines, and side activities like hunting, fishing, and mini-games, due to there being no gameplay value in those things. It would've been so much better if all of those things were never in the game to begin with, and Rockstar focused more on the action instead of that useless fluff that adds nothing to the game. I am so glad that Bannerlord focuses on nothing like that and instead just focuses on the action, instead of all those useless "features" that the haters want.

All those little details and minor features that were in Warband, Warband mods, and Viking Conquest that are completely missing in Bannerlord due to "no gameplay value", seriously take away so much from Bannerlord. The minor features and immersion features really add up when you include many of them. It gets worse when Bannerlord includes new things and then does absolutely nothing noteworthy or interesting with them, not even adding life, like minor factions. The result is a game with no soul.
Yep, I don't know how they're deciding what gameplay value means. Seems as though half the stuff that makes a game fun and memorable does not have gameplay value by their reasoning.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
As far as I am aware, I think they were dropped because of a supposed lack of "gameplay value" (I do not remember which dev said this, I think Duh). Afaik, the question they asked themselves was what could the player do in the bases, what it would add to the experience, and in the end dropped in for its complexity. Duh, if you're reading this and I remembered wrong that you replied, please correct me.
I remember reading that too. Also can't remember who or what thread though. "what can the player do?" um how about special quests and the reward to hire thier troops? How abut you do a quest line and they will always join you when you make a kingdom later? Jeez TW how did you make rest of the game "what does x add to the experience..... why do we experience? who am I?"
 
I remember reading that too. Also can't remember who or what thread though. "what can the player do?" um how about special quests and the reward to hire thier troops? How abut you do a quest line and they will always join you when you make a kingdom later? Jeez TW how did you make rest of the game "what does x add to the experience..... why do we experience? who am I?"

Well now I’ve got the idea that the minor factions should, after 100 years or so, be able to join a main faction and alter it into the eventual warband factions. Like Wolf Skins joining Sturgia and becoming the Vaegirs. Or Legion of the Betrayed joining a player clan split off from Vlandia and becoming the Rhodoks. The ideas that could’ve worked..
 

Runestone

Recruit
// TOO COMPLICATED Hashashins/Father of Night
// TOO COMPLICATED - Slave Revolt


And this part is the end of the texts, the too complicated ones, sounds interesting but, i don't think they'll be in game, sadly.
This shows the whole thing of Bannerlord.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
I remember reading that too. Also can't remember who or what thread though. "what can the player do?" um how about special quests and the reward to hire thier troops? How abut you do a quest line and they will always join you when you make a kingdom later? Jeez TW how did you make rest of the game "what does x add to the experience..... why do we experience? who am I?"
Like Prophesy of Pendor mod, where you need to do unique quest for them in order to join them, and you get to hire their troops and gain their equipment, felt proud when doing it.
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
All minor factions should have a maximum of 7 units (half a major faction).

Mercenary minor factions should:
- Sell units from their roster permanently. (More expensive)
- Sell units from their roster in a temporary contract. (Less expensive)
- Being hired just to attack a specific target in a temporary contract. (Less expensive than entering in a total war)
- Reset the relationship with the factions after the end of the war or the end of temporary contract.
- Have a main territory; village or castle. (Where your troops can train, for a price)
- To be able to choose one, and only one, to join and create your own kingdom with their units.

Bandit minor factions should:
- Be able to negotiate a truce when the leader is captured.
- Be more aggressive and capable of attacking villages, castles and cities.
- Have a main territory; hideout. (Which is rebuilt if you attack and have not eliminated the lords).
- To be able to choose one, and only one, to join and create your own kingdom with their units. (Like a rebel army)**

**And that's how I improved the Wolfskins, because I see them more as a rebellious faction of Battania, who preserve the old ways and characterize themselves as "ancient celts". A much better background:

Wolf01.png


Wolf02.png
 
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