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[MiniMod]Floris Expanded Troop Tree 5% done

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Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Floris Expanded Troop Tree.

What is it?
it's a mod that instead of making the troop trees smaller, make them HUGE.

What would it include?
  • New trooptrees for all factions, mercenaries, women and bandits.
  • All scripts updated to the new troops (including trooptree viewer).
  • New items such as Thrown Wooden Stick, Repeating crossbow...
  • New Unique items given to Lords
  • Skills up to level 15

Progress:
Swadian Troop Tree
Vaegir Troop Tree
Khergit Troop Tree
Nord Troop Tree
Rhodok Troop Tree
Sarranid Troop Tree

Mercenary Troop Tree
Women Troop Tree

Looter Troop Tree
Forest Bandit Troop Tree
Taiga Bandit Troop Tree
Steppe Bandit Troop Tree
Sea Raider Troop Tree
Mountain Bandit Troop Tree
Desert Bandit Troop Tree

New Items
Unique Items for Lords

Scripts Updated

Green - Finished
Orange - In progress
Red - Not yet Started

What is the equivalent of Royal/Imperial Guard in a Republic?
I acept name sugestions for TIER 8 rhodok spearman
 

monnikje

Master Knight
WB
Good luck! Designing new troop trees is quite some work, along with implementing them. How many troops are you're going to add for each troop tree?
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
well, is not quite adding, I'm replacing some and adding others...
the Rhodok troop tree has 27 in FEMP, I've done 21 troops for now but it will be arround 32.
the swadians will have a HUGE troop tree
the vaegirs troop tree won't be so good because I dont know them...
 

Shirebury

Regular
Ikaguia said:
well, is not quite adding, I'm replacing some and adding others...
the Rhodok troop tree has 27 in FEMP, I've done 21 troops for now but it will be arround 32.
the swadians will have a HUGE troop tree
the vaegirs troop tree won't be so good because I dont know them...
That last line doesn't make this mod sound very promising.
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Shirebury said:
Ikaguia said:
well, is not quite adding, I'm replacing some and adding others...
the Rhodok troop tree has 27 in FEMP, I've done 21 troops for now but it will be arround 32.
the swadians will have a HUGE troop tree
the vaegirs troop tree won't be so good because I dont know them... :roll:
That last line doesn't make this mod sound very promising.
Yeah I know...
but I'll try to play a litle more with the vaegirs, so it may not be much crap :razz: :grin:
 

Patone

Veteran
WB
Even more troops?  :eek: I barely use 25% of the currently avaliable ones already! Good luck with your project mate.
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Patone said:
Even more troops?  :eek: I barely use 25% of the currently avaliable ones already! Good luck with your project mate.
xD
thank you...
I like many troops, Rhodok tier 8 is nvl 96 oO

comparison between FEMP and FETT Rhodok Troop Tree:


  • Rhodok Cittizen (Level 4)
    • Rhodok Militia (Level 10)
      • Rhodok Spearman (Level 22)
        • Rhodok Trained Spearman (Level 34)
          • Rhodok Veteran Spearman (Level 56)
            • Rhodok Seargent (Level 72)
              • Rhodok Spearmaster (Level 82)
                • Rhodok Elite Spearman (Level 96)
            • Rhodok Mounted Seargent (Level 7:cool:
              • Rhodok Mounted Spearmaster (Level 8:cool:
      • Rhodok Crossbowman (Level 1:cool:
        • Rhodok Veteran Crossbowman (Level 32)
          • Rhodok Sharpshooter (Level 46)
            • Rhodok Elite Sharpshooter (Level 6:cool:
              • Rhodok Godly Sharpshooter (Level 92)
          • Rhodok Repeating Crossbowman (Level 4:cool:
            • Rhodok Repeating Sharpshooter (Level 6:cool:
              • Rhodok Master Repeating Crossbowman (Level 92)
            • Rhodok Advanced Repeater (Level 72)
              • Rhodok Master Repeater (Level 9:cool:
        • Rhodok Mounted Crossbowman (Level 36)
    • Rhodok Militia (Level 10)
      • Rhodok Brute (Level 14)
        • Rhodok 2Hander (Level 26)
      • Rhodok Knife-Thrower (Level 16)
        • Rhodok Spear-Thrower (Level 34)

  • Rhodok Cittadino (Level 4)
    • Rhodok Novizio (Level 10)
      • Rhodok Milizia (Level 16)
        • Rhodok Lanza Spezzata (Level 24)
        • Rhodok Fante (Level 22)
          • Rhodok Provisionato (Level 27)
          • Rhodok Veterano (Level 2:cool:
            • Rhodok Capitano di Ventura (Level 34)
              • Rhodok Condottiero (Level 40)
      • Rhodok Milizia Balestriere (Level 15)
        • Rhodok Fante (Level 22)
          • Rhodok Provisionato (Level 27)
          • Rhodok Veterano (Level 2:cool:
            • Rhodok Capitano di Ventura (Level 34)
              • Rhodok Condottiero (Level 40)
        • Rhodok Balestriere (Level 22)
          • Rhodok Balestriere Veterano (Level 30)
            • Rhodok Balestriere Pesante (Level 36)
          • Rhodok Balestriere d'Assedio (Level 2:cool:
            • Rhodok Capitano d'Assedio (Level 34)
              • Rhodok Condottiero d'Assedio (Level 40)
    • Rhodok Recluta (Level 10)
      • Rhodok Recluta Balestriere (Level 17)
        • Rhodok Balestriere (Level 22)
          • Rhodok Balestriere Veterano (Level 30)
            • Rhodok Balestriere Pesante (Level 36)
          • Rhodok Balestriere d'Assedio (Level 2:cool:
            • Rhodok Capitano d'Assedio (Level 34)
              • Rhodok Condottiero d'Assedio (Level 40)
        • Rhodok Balestriere Leggero (Level 20)
          • Rhodok Mounted Sharpshooter (Level 29)
      • Rhodok Lanciere (Level 16)
        • Rhodok Lanciere Veterano (Level 20)
          • Rhodok Picchiere Veterano (Level 2:cool:
            • Rhodok Picchiere Fiammingo (Level 34)
          • Rhodok Guardia (Level 26)
            • Rhodok Guardia Ducale (Level 32)
        • Rhodok Lanciere a Cavallo (Level 24)

obs: my troop tree is not yet finished.
 

effemb

Sergeant
M&BWB
no offense intended, but theres no way id ever use your mod.

1) you, as above posters have already noted, seem to sound like an inexperienced modder first of all.  -1 points
2) as has also been said, troop tree in floris is already actually TOO BIG.  half of the troops MINIMUM from each faction should simply not be used based on the simple fact that they are inferior to other versions.  much of the troop tree is obsolete.  youre adding more? -1
3) your troop tree has level 92+ units in it?  are you insane?  why not just cheat your way through the game then.... level 92 isnt meant to even happen.  level 50 is more or less a hard ceiling.  yet there arent even troops above level 42 if i recall correctly, in floris (and that already is pushing it a bit.) -1
4) your minimod is a troop tree only, and it only makes the troop tree much, much worse.  -1

really i cant give you any points at all to support this mod, other than one...and that is, do it to help you learn how to mod, and then throw it away and make something good.

in any case, have fun, learn something, thats a positive.
i wouldnt release it though, it will just be an embarassment for you.
 
effemb said:
no offense intended, but theres no way id ever use your mod.

1) you, as above posters have already noted, seem to sound like an inexperienced modder first of all.  -1 points
2) as has also been said, troop tree in floris is already actually TOO BIG.  half of the troops MINIMUM from each faction should simply not be used based on the simple fact that they are inferior to other versions.  much of the troop tree is obsolete.  youre adding more? -1
3) your troop tree has level 92+ units in it?  are you insane?  why not just cheat your way through the game then.... level 92 isnt meant to even happen.  level 50 is more or less a hard ceiling.  yet there arent even troops above level 42 if i recall correctly, in floris (and that already is pushing it a bit.) -1
4) your minimod is a troop tree only, and it only makes the troop tree much, much worse.  -1

really i cant give you any points at all to support this mod, other than one...and that is, do it to help you learn how to mod, and then throw it away and make something good.

in any case, have fun, learn something, thats a positive.
i wouldnt release it though, it will just be an embarassment for you.
i think that post is quite offensive...
When is moderated a forum about oblivion modding there were also guys like you effe and like ikaguia too
what is a shame is the fact, that some people quit their project only because of negative postings like the above. and to do something for free for the community is never embarassing. so get off yer high steed and shut yer trap
@ikaguia: keep on working - there were many good projects that started this way

I would rather not discuss this topic any further for the sake of this thread, but i couldn't help since these kind of post make me angry. back to topic
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Escalbryt Branleac said:
effemb said:
no offense intended, but theres no way id ever use your mod.

1) you, as above posters have already noted, seem to sound like an inexperienced modder first of all.  -1 points
2) as has also been said, troop tree in floris is already actually TOO BIG.  half of the troops MINIMUM from each faction should simply not be used based on the simple fact that they are inferior to other versions.  much of the troop tree is obsolete.  youre adding more? -1
3) your troop tree has level 92+ units in it?  are you insane?  why not just cheat your way through the game then.... level 92 isnt meant to even happen.  level 50 is more or less a hard ceiling.  yet there arent even troops above level 42 if i recall correctly, in floris (and that already is pushing it a bit.) -1
4) your minimod is a troop tree only, and it only makes the troop tree much, much worse.  -1

really i cant give you any points at all to support this mod, other than one...and that is, do it to help you learn how to mod, and then throw it away and make something good.

in any case, have fun, learn something, thats a positive.
i wouldnt release it though, it will just be an embarassment for you.
i think that post is quite offensive...
When is moderated a forum about oblivion modding there were also guys like you effe and like ikaguia too
what is a shame is the fact, that some people quit their project only because of negative postings like the above. and to do something for free for the community is never embarassing. so get off yer high steed and shut yer trap
@ikaguia: keep on working - there were many good projects that started this way

I would rather not discuss this topic any further for the sake of this thread, but i couldn't help since these kind of post make me angry. back to topic

thanks xD
but I think he is right... most of all.
I'm no Master modder, but I have some experience...
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
The only valid point he makes is the high levels of troops. IF you give the AI these lvl90+ troops, the player would not be able to compete with them, simply because he cant train them that high. The only way the player can get them is via recruiting them as prisoners.
 

Shirebury

Regular
I worry about the troop levels aswell, but i would definitely try your mod out.

You've clearly put alot of thought in the Rhodoks, and if you can do this for all the troop trees, then it could be a very popular alternative.
 

monnikje

Master Knight
WB
This is the system I used:

Tier 1: level 1-6
Tier 2: level 7-12
Tier 3: level 13-18
Tier 4: level 19-24
Tier 5: level 25-30
Tier 6: level 31-36
Tier 7: level 37-42

The tier 7 troops are not just the highest tier troops with the best equipment and stats: they also take a very long time to train. I don't know the numbers exactly (I'd have to look them up, which I can't do at the moment I write this), but the tier 6 troops have around 600.000 points of experience. Tier 7 troops have around 1.800.000 points of experience. This means that going from tier 6 to tier 7 takes approximately three times as much experience as the entire route till tier 6. I expected troops to take years of ingame fighting to obtain this much-wanted tier 7, making them something special. I thought that level 40 to 42 was already pushing the edge.

I advise you not to go much above that level 42, because it will be almost impossible for the players to train those units. For example, your Rhodok Sharpshooter (Level 46) will require something like 4 million points of experience (I made an educated guess based on the way the xp-requierment raises very rapidly above level 40). Looking at how long it takes to reach those first 2 million (years ingame... can anyone who managed to train some C7 Swadian Baron Mineures tell me how long it took them to get them?), it might take 5-10 years ingame. And that's just a tier 5 soldier! This will make half your tree inaccessible to players, which is a waste. Therefor I suggest two alternatives:

1) Use the level system I used, and add a tier 8 unit:
Tier 8: level 43-48
These uits will take even longer than my tier 7 soldiers, but hey, now there is really a reward for keeping your troops alive for a decade!

2) Use another level system, like:
Tier 1: level 1-5
Tier 2: level 6-10
Tier 3: level 11-15
Tier 4: level 16-20
Tier 5: level 21-25
Tier 6: level 26-30
Tier 7: level 31-35
Tier 8: level 36-40
Now you've made it a little bit easier to train the top tier units, but spread it out over 8 tiers instead of 7, giving more room for different branches and units.

Ow, and don't worry about being no true modding master: my only modding experience when I started out this pack was colouring the faction arms and being able to read the readme's from other mods :mrgreen:. Once again, good luck: designing a troop tree is no easy task, as the other people who have released a troop tree can confirm.
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
monnikje said:
This is the system I used:

Tier 1: level 1-6
Tier 2: level 7-12
Tier 3: level 13-18
Tier 4: level 19-24
Tier 5: level 25-30
Tier 6: level 31-36
Tier 7: level 37-42

The tier 7 troops are not just the highest tier troops with the best equipment and stats: they also take a very long time to train. I don't know the numbers exactly (I'd have to look them up, which I can't do at the moment I write this), but the tier 6 troops have around 600.000 points of experience. Tier 7 troops have around 1.800.000 points of experience. This means that going from tier 6 to tier 7 takes approximately three times as much experience as the entire route till tier 6. I expected troops to take years of ingame fighting to obtain this much-wanted tier 7, making them something special. I thought that level 40 to 42 was already pushing the edge.

I advise you not to go much above that level 42, because it will be almost impossible for the players to train those units. For example, your Rhodok Sharpshooter (Level 46) will require something like 4 million points of experience (I made an educated guess based on the way the xp-requierment raises very rapidly above level 40). Looking at how long it takes to reach those first 2 million (years ingame... can anyone who managed to train some C7 Swadian Baron Mineures tell me how long it took them to get them?), it might take 5-10 years ingame. And that's just a tier 5 soldier! This will make half your tree inaccessible to players, which is a waste. Therefor I suggest two alternatives:

1) Use the level system I used, and add a tier 8 unit:
Tier 8: level 43-48
These uits will take even longer than my tier 7 soldiers, but hey, now there is really a reward for keeping your troops alive for a decade!

2) Use another level system, like:
Tier 1: level 1-5
Tier 2: level 6-10
Tier 3: level 11-15
Tier 4: level 16-20
Tier 5: level 21-25
Tier 6: level 26-30
Tier 7: level 31-35
Tier 8: level 36-40
Now you've made it a little bit easier to train the top tier units, but spread it out over 8 tiers instead of 7, giving more room for different branches and units.

Ow, and don't worry about being no true modding master: my only modding experience when I started out this pack was colouring the faction arms and being able to read the readme's from other mods :mrgreen:. Once again, good luck: designing a troop tree is no easy task, as the other people who have released a troop tree can confirm.

thank you for the advice, and I think I will use the 1st option xD
and I may add some Tier 1.5 2.5 3.5 4.5... that should be interesting xD
Then I'll make the upgrade cost halved.
 

Duh

Duke
M&BWB
You could also go for something similar to the SOD system. Several units that represent 1 unit gaining experience:

First Unit - Swordman
Second Unit - Swordman^
Third Unit -Swordman^^

All have the same experience, but their stats are improving. The third unit would then be able to upgrade to a new unit with better equipment. (Swordseargant or master or whatever)

If you dont like the names  go for -

Swordman
Veteran Swordman
Elite Swordman

Again same system. They dont get new equipment, but better stats. The third one upgrades to a unit with better equipment.

(This would work well for the tiers 1.2, 15., 1.7)
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Duh said:
You could also go for something similar to the SOD system. Several units that represent 1 unit gaining experience:

First Unit - Swordman
Second Unit - Swordman^
Third Unit -Swordman^^

All have the same experience, but their stats are improving. The third unit would then be able to upgrade to a new unit with better equipment. (Swordseargant or master or whatever)

If you dont like the names  go for -

Swordman
Veteran Swordman
Elite Swordman

Again same system. They dont get new equipment, but better stats. The third one upgrades to a unit with better equipment.

(This would work well for the tiers 1.2, 15., 1.7)

That's exactly what I meant, but only with 2 units and the upgrading cost halved.
 

monnikje

Master Knight
WB
Something you will come across when designing the troop tree in the ingame viewer: their size is made for seven tiers. You might want to change that for eight tiers. To do that, open module_scripts.py and search for:
Code:
("prsnt_upgrade_tree_troop_and_name"'
The comments point you to the numbers you should change to influence the size of the displayed troops.

And in case you didn't know it already, to change the troops in the ingame viewer, open module_presentations.py and search for
Code:
("upgrade_tree_1", 0, mesh_load_window, [
The enormous bunch of code below is the place where you can change how the tree is displayed.
 

Ikaguia

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
monnikje said:
Something you will come across when designing the troop tree in the ingame viewer: their size is made for seven tiers. You might want to change that for eight tiers. To do that, open module_scripts.py and search for:
Code:
("prsnt_upgrade_tree_troop_and_name"'
The comments point you to the numbers you should change to influence the size of the displayed troops.

And in case you didn't know it already, to change the troops in the ingame viewer, open module_presentations.py and search for
Code:
("upgrade_tree_1", 0, mesh_load_window, [
The enormous bunch of code below is the place where you can change how the tree is displayed.

I did know about the presentation part but I didnt know about the script part.
Thanks xD

Here's how I ve made the tiers levels:
Tier 1  = level 1
Tier 1+ = level 3
Tier 2  = level 6
Tier 2+ = level 8
Tier 3  = level 11
Tier 3+ = level 14
Tier 4  = level 17
Tier 4+ = level 20
Tier 5  = level 23
Tier 5+ = level 26
Tier 6  = level 30
Tier 6+ = level 34
Tier 7  = level 38
Tier 7+ = level 42
Tier 8  = level 48 <- They are much more powerfull than Tier 7+, AI shouldn't get this(only kings) and player should take years to get this.
 
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