Mid-late 1700s mod

[PFC Epley]

Im pretty new to MnB. I dled the demo, played it, thought it was above average, bought it. Played it more. Now Im almost to the point where im bored of it due to doing the same thing over and over. I used to, guess is still every once in awhile, play(ed) operation flashpoint. Ive modded just about every aspect of it. From textures to models, missions to scripts. I learned quickly that many games use, i guess all games use the same format for scripting, and similiar way for modeling and textures. Anyway.

I was thinking it would be awesome to have musket battles from around the 1700s period. I chose the 1700s, because the 1800s phased out melee weapons for the most part, and that wouldnt be too much fun. I helped make Civil War mod for operation flashpoint. It was awesome when you go insane because it took so long to reload and you got some wanker with a knife or something coming at ya. I think the same effect could be created better in MnB, except better. Imagine, having like army riflemen, with muskets and knives for the side. Have officers with a pistol and a sword. Think about a group of militia with rifles being charged by hardened rebels with axes or pitchforks, or whatever. I guess im thinking of battles like on pirate ship boardings, except without the ships. I think this would be cool. Would anybody be intereseted, or is most everybody hardcore medieval oriented? I think muskets are a better idea than magic.

Another question, how hard is it to implement new animations into the game, or is it possible yet?

Just thought i would see if anybody wants what i want, im going to familiare myself with the formats of the files and scripting, see if i cant make a musket to start out with. If anyone is interested, let me know.

PFC

 

[Ummu]

I would love to have that. Once the mod kit comes out, contact me.

 

[Luthius]

SHARPE, Sharpe Sharpe Sharpe!

If it's got Sharpe in, I'm in.

Don't forget the riflemen - the feared elite of the British infantry!

 

[Nahadiel]

Really good idea, I´d really love to play a game with muskets, but I seems to be almost impossible to create them BTM. I´ve read few times that some needed animations and scripts for flat-trajectory ammo are harcoded or some like that. Also, if you read the threads of Hugemod and Mag7 you´ll see that Armagan didnt use "common" codes, so modding M&B seems to be difficult and even tedious sometimes when you have to "randomly" change some number to see their function.

Maybe you could get some advice and help from experimented modders, and even ask Armagan (by PM I guess) about the fact of creating muskets.

 

[PFC Epley]

Well my idea may or may not be possible. Right now I know it is possible to create models that could be used, also new textures can be made. But looking through the data files, they looked a little tough. Looks like the creators used a table program, but they didnt leave the value keys. Like I said before Im fairly new to the game, dled it i think about a week and a half ago. I played operation flashpoint for 5 years, it wasnt until the 3 year i actually started modding it. So my idea may or may not be possible, and it probably isnt possible right now.

Right now, i may just make a couple of models, maybe a couple muskets and see if i cant make a uniform or two. Then wait and see how much easier modding becomes.

Whats a sharpe luthius, probably a weapon of some sort?

 

[catsoup]

Id like a mod like that, however i wouldnt like to seen the american civil war again. At this period there was the great northern war, the war for spanish heritage, the seven years war, the silesian wars etc etc. T'd be nice 2 see something not as franchised as the acw.

 

[Luthius]

It's a TV program called Sharpe about a guy named Sharpe (origionality is key). It's set in the Napolionic Wars and Sharpe leads a band on riflemen in battle and kills many French, Spanish and anyone else who Wellington dislikes at the time. If you google search his name the DVD box set come straight up.

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

Oh god I love Sharpe, hardly ever on now except for UKTV Gold.

 

[PFC Epley]

I guess the best course of action would be to wait til the official tools are released. I will give this idea a shot, and if it doesnt turn out, well life goes on. I do need to aquire a modelling program suffcient for MnB, and ideas other than 3d studio Max? I may just dl the demo of that.

Ofp creators made their own modeling program for Operation Flashpoint, which was convienent. I have a couple friends from the OFP community who are working on some musket reload animations, If possible i see if they would be willing to share, and then see if it is possible to implement such thing into MnB, if they formats are interchangable.

PFC

 

[Ancientwanker]

Armagan has said that custom animations wont be possible with the tools. The good news is that hes put the firearms skill back in and said something about looking into supporting early firearms, so the animations could be there in time. Theres a firearms thread floating around here somewhere where he commented on this.

 

[PFC Epley]

Armagan has said that custom animations wont be possible with the tools. The good news is that hes put the firearms skill back in and said something about looking into supporting early firearms, so the animations could be there in time. Theres a firearms thread floating around here somewhere where he commented on this.

Thats good news. I guess there probably wont be a pistol animation, but oh well, i guess rifles will have to cut it.

 

[A_Rude_Gesture]

How about using the 7years war as a setting?
The battles during the 1750s in Canada/USA would, i think, be perfectly suited for a mod. First off you have the two opposing forces; The brits and the frenchies. That is to say you have regular troops on both sides portraying the very pinnacle of the "modern" art of war. The, of course, you have all the irregulars, ranger units, native american allies and militias.

The whole war was more or less fought in the wilderness in and around the Canada/Northernmost part of modernday US, with small forts as supply bases which, in mod terms, would enable the player to roam freely around the countryside. There would of course, be small villages strewn about the landscape, native american or inhabited by european settlers.

Another bonus if selecting this setting would be that while firearms where common in the european armies, they were not efficient enough to phase out bow and arrow or cold steel weapons.

Well, that's just what I think.

 

[Nahadiel]

Yes, and by that time earler cartridges were developed (I thimk), so reloading time wouldnt be so slow (I mean, speed >30 ). The problem, appart of animations, would be the upgrade trees... a common one for regulars and "assistants&auxiliars"? or two sepparated ones? Not to mention a tree for Dragoons (or cavalry), wich wasnt so crowded as infantry, but was important in British strategies.

 

[Laurence of Arabia]

Oh god I love Sharpe, hardly ever on now except for UKTV Gold.

I used to watch that all the time, but i havn;t seen it on for ages.

 

[Luthius]

Oh god I love Sharpe, hardly ever on now except for UKTV Gold.

I used to watch that all the time, but i havn;t seen it on for ages.

We bought my flatmate the box set for his birthday! Or should i say we used his birthday as an excuse to buy the box set for the flat

 

[A_Rude_Gesture]

Yes, and by that time earler cartridges were developed (I thimk), so reloading time wouldnt be so slow (I mean, speed >30 ).

I'm myself am sorta technologically challenged so I have no idea as to how good speed 30 is (I mean I know some swords like the sabre have speeds of 100 or more in m&b, but that doesnt help much).
However, it is generally agreed that trained infantry would be able to get off 3 rounds per minute with a musket (eventhough speeds of 5 rounds per minute have been claimed by different elite units during the era).

The problem, appart of animations, would be the upgrade trees... a common one for regulars and "assistants&auxiliars"? or two sepparated ones? Not to mention a tree for Dragoons (or cavalry), wich wasnt so crowded as infantry, but was important in British strategies.

I don't know how many levels of upgrade are assigned to each class but if it is, as I presume, 3 levels then I think the following could apply for the british side:

*Light infantry-->Regular infantry-->Grenadiers
(eventhough I'm a bit uncertain of using "Light infantry" as something that leads to "Grenadiers", perhaps it should be "Militia" instead)

*Armed townspeople/Frontiersmen-->Irregulars(or perhaps Militia)-->Rangers

*Irregular cavalry-->Light dragoons(Historically inaccurate but could be armed with pistols only)-->Dragoons

*Cavalry scouts-->Hussars-->Cuirassiers
(This class would only be hireable in a major british town/city)

*Native American scouts(armed with bows and knifes)-->Warriors(armed with bows and axes or clubs-->Musketarmed warriors

Well, this certainly isn't carved in stone and thus unchangeable. I have some concerns about the list and given more time I could work out a better one, but this was the best I could do in 5 minutes.

 

[Luthius]

I was led to believe that light infantry and line (regular) infantry were different in their purposes and as such wouldn't be in the same upgrade path. I'm kind of basing this on Imperial Glory but i think it's true. Light infantry were armed with rifles instead of muskets and were used more for shooting and quick running/skermishing than for melee. Line infantry fought more in melee as muskets were a bit rubbish but plentiful.

Going back to sharpe. His men used rifles and would be known as riflemen. (Historically i believe there were actually a few riflemen attached to each normal platoon who's job it was to kill the enemy commanders and sergents before the lines met in battle as they had the more accurate and longer ranged rifles, which the French musketmen (voitegurs?) did not).

So... light infantry could upgrade into riflemen.

Light infantry - Line infantry
Quick moving Slow moving
Fewer HP More HP
Better guns Poorer guns
(accuracy +damage + range)
Poorer armour Better armour
Bad in melee Good in melee
(no bayonets)

Maybe a split after militia to determine the path taken. By the way if the history in Sharpe and/or Imperial Glory is a big load of bull then this is nonsence

 

[A_Rude_Gesture]

Well, you're right about the different purposes of light infantry and line infantry which is why I was a bit hesitant of using light infantry as the first step in a line which leads to grenadiers. But as I mentioned I only threw it together in a couple of minutes.

However, in regards to the use of rifles; Light infantry were seldom armed with rifles during this era (you have to remember that this is before the napoleonic wars and indeed before the american uprising) and even during the napoleonic wars skirmishers were seldomly armed with rifles. The problem with rifles, though common enough as a hunting weapon, is that while you talk about shots per minute with a musket, you're more likely to talk about minutes per shot when it comes to a rifle. As a huntingweapon the rifle makes up for it in accuracy, but as a military weapon this is disastrous. In mod terms I think that a reload time of several minutes would be a bit too much for any player.

However, if rifles should be incorporated I strongly suggest that they are incorporated by means of being the armament of irregulars (as seen in during the american uprising).

Oh and Sharpe is more or less historically accurate, at least in regards to equipment. I myself, however, find it a bit lacking when it comes to objectivity which is only too common in movies/tv-series pertaining to the Napoleonic wars.

 

[Luthius]

Ahh ok, fair enough. I was always under the impression that rifles were quicker to reload. Maybe thats why i can never recall Sharpe actully reloading his rifle

I suppose it would have worked to pick of the odd Captaine (is that the correct french) before the lines met, with a quick retreat back to the lines after the shot is fired.

It would be really good if you could have a rifle and use it to pick off the enemy leader unit early before changing it in your inventory for a musket.

 

[A_Rude_Gesture]

My thoughts exactly, Luthius! Obviously one shouldn't be kept from using a rifle, but the problem would arise if it was implemented as the standard weapon of any specific unit. Not unless it was possible to make the maps a lot bigger.

The reason for the long reloadtimes of a rifle is that the barrel is rifled. This means that the round needs to have an extremely tight fit in order to grip the rifling (which give it its spinning motion and increases its range and accuracy). There are (at least here in Sweden) drawings of riflemen using a hammer to hammer the round home. Of course this all changed with the breachloading(or backloading rather) rifles which meant that you didn't need to insert the round via the barrel.

In other words, it was an extremely powerful weapon with much higher accuracy and range than a musket (the calculated lethality of muskets in the 1700s was only 1 kill in 200 shots. Mind you, that's kills on the battlefield. It's hard to calculate how many died from their wounds afterwards. Whereas I've seen numbers indicating that units using rifles would get 1 kill in 20-30 shots. However these numbers are not in any way confirmed). During the American uprising irregulars used to harrass British units, killing their officers and then running away. This however, would as I mentioned earlier, be hard to mimmick in m&b considering the size of the battlemaps.

If anyone needs some numbers regarding muzzlevelocity or anything pertaining to blackpowderweapons I could probably get my hands on it. But only on request, 'cause I got stuff to do... (i.e. studying to get my masters...*Sigh*)