Mercenary troops should be competitive with regular soldiers, Veteran's Respect should upgrade bandits to mercenaries

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I like that the mercenary troop trees got an overhaul in 1.9, but they can't compete with regular soldiers. Especially the sword sister troop tree, which I have long awaited it's return from Warband, just sucks due their terrible armors and no headgear. Mercenaries are both more expensive and straight up worse than regular soldiers. First, I think there should be "Northern" and "Southern" variants of the merc troop trees (probably based on Sturgia+Battania & Aserai cultures respectively), secondly, all the existing merc troop loadouts and proficiencies should be updated to be competitive with regular soldiers belonging to the same tier.

I also think that Veteran's respect should let us convert bandits into mercenary units rather than regular and noble units. Noble units should be rare and hard to acquire, especially for the player. I would be fine if we could get noble units from upgrading bandit bosses through veteran's respect though.

I'm fairly confident that people broadly already agree that mercs should be better, but my second suggestion may be unpopular. If so, please tell me.
 
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I like that the mercenary troop trees got an overhaul in 1.9, but they can't compete with regular soldiers. Especially the sword sister troop tree, which I have long awaited it's return from Warband, just sucks due their terrible armors and no headgear. Mercenaries are both more expensive and straight up worse than regular soldiers. First, I think there should be "Northern" and "Southern" variants of the merc troop trees (probably based on Sturgia+Battania & Aserai cultures respectively), secondly, all the existing merc troop loadouts and proficiencies should be updated to be competitive with regular soldiers belonging to the same tier.

I also think that Veteran's respect should let us convert bandits into mercenary units rather than regular and noble units. Noble units should be rare and hard to acquire, especially for the player. I would be fine if we could get noble units from upgrading bandit bosses through veteran's respect though.

I'm fairly confident that people broadly already agree that mercs should be better, but my second suggestion may be unpopular. If so, please tell me.
Whatever you may want, it seems TW believes they ought to be sh*tty expendables for some reason.

But yeah, I do believe they should be pretty strong. Maybe as an in between of commoner and noble troops. Commoners should just be the most common, but not at all stronger than anything besides bandits.
 
Whatever you may want, it seems TW believes they ought to be sh*tty expendables for some reason.

But yeah, I do believe they should be pretty strong. Maybe as an in between of commoner and noble troops. Commoners should just be the most common, but not at all stronger than anything besides bandits.
Tbh I would be happy if they were at the very least competitive. If the devs plan to add morale penalties for using troops of differing cultures (which they really should), mercenaries which are as good as (or maybe a tiny bit better or worse than) regular soldiers without having any morale penalties would actually be useful.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I also think that Veteran's respect should let us convert bandits into mercenary units rather than regular and noble units. Noble units should be rare and hard to acquire, especially for the player. I would be fine if we could get noble units from upgrading bandit bosses through veteran's respect though.

I'm fairly confident that people broadly already agree that mercs should be better, but my second suggestion may be unpopular. If so, please tell me.
The reason nobles became easier to acquire was because it was often requested. Not only (or even primarily tbh) here but everywhere else people talked about Bannerlord.
 
The reason nobles became easier to acquire was because it was often requested. Not only (or even primarily tbh) here but everywhere else people talked about Bannerlord.
I understand why it was done at the time, it was ridiculously hard to get nobles in the earlier versions of the game. Nowadays getting nobles is as easy, if not easier than getting regular troops.
 

Milandro

Recruit
I have always been a fan of mercenaries, and I agree with the idea of it but would like to continue to see more tweaking

They are expensive to hire, very high upkeep and inferior quality

I respect that there are skills (Merc hire/upgrade/upkeep reduction) and taken all together they can be quite cheap (at least upkeep wise) but with the recent spike in upkeep they seem quite lacking

I think they should be comparable to non noble units but more expensive (without skills)

Without equipment buffs/changes, I would just remove the upkeep increase as they seem about one tier below their level already (and thus have a higher upkeep built in)
 

JunKeteer

Veteran
Why did they decide to have sword sisters have no head armor? It's these basic decisions that are so perplexing into how the game has been updating (ie pilums going from throwable to not).
 
I'd hope with the rework that signals more additions.

Agree with everything except for you wanting to take away my Forest Bandit Fian cheese. If Veteran's Respect got changed into Merc upgrades then I want to see the Merc lines go up to T6 and notables placed in Castles to make up for my lack of Fian Cheese.

More variety would be good - and larger trees since we can support 3+ branches now. Mercenaries all throughout history we always very good - hell - mercs in other countries *today* are highly skilled. SEALs in UAE, Rangers working for cartles, UKAF training Chinese pilots.

I'd say mercs should - in certain aspects - be better stat wise but maybe not gear wise (what little difference that makes) as the professional army counterparts. Would also give a chance for some cooler styles - different weapon load outs (e.g., Elite Pikemen also carry 2-handers) and what not.
 

Milandro

Recruit
Why did they decide to have sword sisters have no head armor? It's these basic decisions that are so perplexing into how the game has been updating (ie pilums going from throwable to not).
I think it’s a nod to warband where some of the sets of troopers didn’t have helms/head armour
 
I'd hope with the rework that signals more additions.

Agree with everything except for you wanting to take away my Forest Bandit Fian cheese. If Veteran's Respect got changed into Merc upgrades then I want to see the Merc lines go up to T6 and notables placed in Castles to make up for my lack of Fian Cheese.

More variety would be good - and larger trees since we can support 3+ branches now. Mercenaries all throughout history we always very good - hell - mercs in other countries *today* are highly skilled. SEALs in UAE, Rangers working for cartles, UKAF training Chinese pilots.

I'd say mercs should - in certain aspects - be better stat wise but maybe not gear wise (what little difference that makes) as the professional army counterparts. Would also give a chance for some cooler styles - different weapon load outs (e.g., Elite Pikemen also carry 2-handers) and what not.
It's just so painfully easy to get noble units that it makes me dislike veteran's respect. I remember it (technically it was called disciplinarian) being very overpowered when the game first released because getting nobles was so hard. I wouldn't mind mercs being a bit better than standard troops (although imo it should be minor faction troops which should have tier 5.5 units). As I said, there are plethora of ways to make mercs more useful, such as implementing a morale penalty for using troops belonging to a culture you're at war with, which merc units would not have.
 
I like that the mercenary troop trees got an overhaul in 1.9, but they can't compete with regular soldiers. Especially the sword sister troop tree, which I have long awaited it's return from Warband, just sucks due their terrible armors and no headgear. Mercenaries are both more expensive and straight up worse than regular soldiers. First, I think there should be "Northern" and "Southern" variants of the merc troop trees (probably based on Sturgia+Battania & Aserai cultures respectively), secondly, all the existing merc troop loadouts and proficiencies should be updated to be competitive with regular soldiers belonging to the same tier.

I also think that Veteran's respect should let us convert bandits into mercenary units rather than regular and noble units. Noble units should be rare and hard to acquire, especially for the player. I would be fine if we could get noble units from upgrading bandit bosses through veteran's respect though.

I'm fairly confident that people broadly already agree that mercs should be better, but my second suggestion may be unpopular. If so, please tell me.
100% agree, espescially with Veterans's respect, converting bandits in to noble units always felt like a cheat and a quick solution to have more acces to noble units. But converting them to mercenaries is much more logical.

i would like a perk that allows you to convert units to your faction in the same tier. (for a cost or with a timer in a garrison)
 
100% agree, espescially with Veterans's respect, converting bandits in to noble units always felt like a cheat and a quick solution to have more acces to noble units. But converting them to mercenaries is much more logical.

i would like a perk that allows you to convert units to your faction in the same tier. (for a cost or with a timer in a garrison)
Do you mean like for example choosing a Battanian Wildling to "promote" to a Vlandian Sergeant for example? I really like the idea, but some troop types have no equivalents in other cultures.

Or do you mean converting a Battanian Oathsworn to a Wildling?
 

FireBlazinCandy

If there was something different about mercenaries other than just stats and cost. Ideas to make them interesting would be:

Keep them expensive, make the stronger, harder to find but:

- Have the disorganised penalty last longer/not last as long when you have mercenaries in your party. The more of them you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Seiges weapons take longer/don't take as long to build with mercenaries in your party, again the more you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Loot gained post battle is increased/decreased with mercenaries in your party, multiplier applies.

Obviously these are just some things I pulled out of my bum bum, and I'm sure others have much better ideas. But the idea of them being a standalone consideration, rather than just another troop would be cool in my opinion.
 
If there was something different about mercenaries other than just stats and cost. Ideas to make them interesting would be:

Keep them expensive, make the stronger, harder to find but:

- Have the disorganised penalty last longer/not last as long when you have mercenaries in your party. The more of them you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Seiges weapons take longer/don't take as long to build with mercenaries in your party, again the more you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Loot gained post battle is increased/decreased with mercenaries in your party, multiplier applies.

Obviously these are just some things I pulled out of my bum bum, and I'm sure others have much better ideas. But the idea of them being a standalone consideration, rather than just another troop would be cool in my opinion.
How about being able to sell mercenaries in towns? It would give us new moneymaking options through converting bandits to mercs and selling them or training lower tier mercenaries to higher tiers and selling them for a profit in taverns, and gaining trade (or another skill) exp.
 

FireBlazinCandy

How about being able to sell mercenaries in towns? It would give us new moneymaking options through converting bandits to mercs and selling them or training lower tier mercenaries to higher tiers and selling them for a profit in taverns, and gaining trade (or another skill) exp.

Good idea. Could even sell them to other lords in war who pay a higher price depending on how the war is going for them. A mechanic pretty much already in the game, though it is a quest if I remember.
 
Good idea. Could even sell them to other lords in war who pay a higher price depending on how the war is going for them. A mechanic pretty much already in the game, though it is a quest if I remember.
I'm just further disappointed when I think of how even the most mundane of mechanics like bartering could've had more interesting uses like giving soldiers, gifting specially crafted weapons, arranging a peace deal with the ruler, etc..
 

FireBlazinCandy

I'm just further disappointed when I think of how even the most mundane of mechanics like bartering could've had more interesting uses like giving soldiers, gifting specially crafted weapons, arranging a peace deal with the ruler, etc..

It is really, really strange. Getting that many troops into a battle at one time is impressive and definitely worth the time they spent on it. I will give TW that any day of the week. But it's almost everything else is a placeholder. I would have expected things like these to be well fleshed out years ago during pre-production, or even sooner again during the concept and or moodboard stage. But I won't go on again.

Disappointing is correct.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I understand why it was done at the time, it was ridiculously hard to get nobles in the earlier versions of the game. Nowadays getting nobles is as easy, if not easier than getting regular troops.
Yes. That was done on purpose. TW mostly ignores people on this forum, but when a relatively popular streamer *****es or notices something, more often than not, it gets fixed/adjusted real goddamned quick.

see:
meat duping bug
ulfhednars being a downgrade from their previous tier
insane influence payout scaling on merc contracts
blunt arrows

Smithing and retreat cheese are the exceptions.
If there was something different about mercenaries other than just stats and cost. Ideas to make them interesting would be:

Keep them expensive, make the stronger, harder to find but:

- Have the disorganised penalty last longer/not last as long when you have mercenaries in your party. The more of them you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Seiges weapons take longer/don't take as long to build with mercenaries in your party, again the more you have, the larger the multiplier.

- Loot gained post battle is increased/decreased with mercenaries in your party, multiplier applies.

Obviously these are just some things I pulled out of my bum bum, and I'm sure others have much better ideas. But the idea of them being a standalone consideration, rather than just another troop would be cool in my opinion.
Making mercs harder to find goes against the reason they are in the game to begin with, which is to make sure the player has some access to decent troops.
 

Bluko88

Sergeant
I'm fairly confident that people broadly already agree that mercs should be better, but my second suggestion may be unpopular. If so, please tell me.
It's not unpopular - they are undeniably trash now. Only ones I'd even consider getting are the Crossbowmen.

Not only do they have a high initial hire cost, they have ridiculous upkeep, and equipment/skills is pretty poor. It's safe to say I'll never touch them. Stuff like this is why I've given up on Campaign/Sandbox in general.


The old merc line was underwhelming sure, but they were just extra troops you recruited generally to make up for losses in a pinch. Don't think anyone seriously went "all" mercenary. But because I think Strat pointed out you could min/max things to have mercenaries effectively pay you, let's introduce really crap expensive mercenaries! Seems much wiser to have nerfed the perks in question instead.

Yes. That was done on purpose. TW mostly ignores people on this forum, but when a relatively popular streamer *****es or notices something, more often than not, it gets fixed/adjusted real goddamned quick.
Yep, suppose they sell the game as it were. So it kind of is in TW's interest to have them not point out their flaws.

Though it took an awful long time to get working siege ladders...


If only we were at this point with 1.9 in October 2021, I might have been optimistic about the future of the base game.
 
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