Mercenaries in armies need to gain influence to cover the cost

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Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
You used to be able to clear 20,000 denars a day but people kept broadcasting it over streams and complaining that there was nothing to spend their millions on.

Well to be honest, it is still too easy to make tons of money. I am even refusing to buy workshops in my last campaigns for this reason.

I think we should have difficulty settings for economy too, because while I love to play pretty challenging campaigns where it is really hard to pay full elite armies wages, I understand that some people hate it.

I find pretty unfair for the AI the tons of ways the player is able to get money, and I dislike to see how easy feels everything in this game. In my last campaign making use of workshops, caravans, etc, I was able to get Jaculan at day 200, and start earning like 3K gold daily, even when I had a really strong party. After some time I deflected from Battania and join Vlandia keeping my fiefs, and got elected as king when Derther died at day 500 or so. Then, my only two options were to try to conquer the world (what I hate to do), or stop playing that campaing and start a new one…
 

hruza

Knight at Arms
Well to be honest, it is still too easy to make tons of money. I am even refusing to buy workshops in my last campaigns for this reason.

Problem is that those ways to make tons of money does not scale well with the size of your party. Yes you can easily do questing that requires ~20 mid tier troops and be in positive numbers while at the same time signing up as a mercenary and take part in AI battles here and there.

But try to raise your party to 100 T4-5 units and you go bankrupt in a few days. Your income as a mercenary should depend on the size and quality of the troops you bring in to fight and you should be able to support larger companies been a mercenary. Life of mercenary should be level up from running errands for local crime authorities, petty lords, innkeepers and hunting runaway daughters of local peasants.
 

Ni

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SVC
I don't know, I seem to remember making pretty decent money as a merc in 1.6 anyway. I trained up a group of about 50 soldiers including companions, kept the number low so I could move quickly. Basically anything that could catch me was too small to be a threat, and anything that was a threat was to slow to catch me. Took a bit of time as I had to get riding horses for all the foot soldiers. After that I waited till several battles had taken place, then went behind enemy lines and patrolled around enemy villages and towns. In the process I would attack enemy lords who were trying to replenish their losses. Because they were replenishing their forces, a lot of times 70% of their force was nothing but recruits, so I could take on forces twice my size with little loss. I ignored sieges, no sense in getting slaughtered for no gain. After I had prisoners that were nothing but lords and high tier troops I'd go to the ransom broker, then rinse and repeat. Granted I also had a few workshops set up as well to help pay for my troops.

Worked out pretty well .... until peace broke out 😆
 

Askey

Veteran
I don't know, I seem to remember making pretty decent money as a merc in 1.6 anyway. I trained up a group of about 50 soldiers including companions, kept the number low so I could move quickly. Basically anything that could catch me was too small to be a threat, and anything that was a threat was to slow to catch me. Took a bit of time as I had to get riding horses for all the foot soldiers. After that I waited till several battles had taken place, then went behind enemy lines and patrolled around enemy villages and towns. In the process I would attack enemy lords who were trying to replenish their losses. Because they were replenishing their forces, a lot of times 70% of their force was nothing but recruits, so I could take on forces twice my size with little loss. I ignored sieges, no sense in getting slaughtered for no gain. After I had prisoners that were nothing but lords and high tier troops I'd go to the ransom broker, then rinse and repeat. Granted I also had a few workshops set up as well to help pay for my troops.

Worked out pretty well .... until peace broke out 😆

I like this idea, screw messing around and focusing on clan tier in my next play-through.
 

mujadaddy

Regular
WB
I started a 1.6 playthrough, and am currently merc'ing with a party of 60-100. Some days I get 200, some days 1200. Seems fine to me, I already have 300K and it's the 2nd winter.

(Doing a scumbag play, no Recruiting allowed, only prisoners and Tavern mercs: this actually saved a TON of hiring money at the beginning before I got Tier 2)
 

Askey

Veteran
I started a 1.6 playthrough, and am currently merc'ing with a party of 60-100. Some days I get 200, some days 1200. Seems fine to me, I already have 300K and it's the 2nd winter.

(Doing a scumbag play, no Recruiting allowed, only prisoners and Tavern mercs: this actually saved a TON of hiring money at the beginning before I got Tier 2)

Sounds like a really interesting way to play, I'll try this eventually.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Problem is that those ways to make tons of money does not scale well with the size of your party. Yes you can easily do questing that requires ~20 mid tier troops and be in positive numbers while at the same time signing up as a mercenary and take part in AI battles here and there.

But try to raise your party to 100 T4-5 units and you go bankrupt in a few days. Your income as a mercenary should depend on the size and quality of the troops you bring in to fight and you should be able to support larger companies been a mercenary. Life of mercenary should be level up from running errands for local crime authorities, petty lords, innkeepers and hunting runaway daughters of local peasants.

I think you are talking about a mercenary only play through without keeping in mind anything else.

I can provide you save games where I have pretty elite parties, and still getting positive income. Just buy good workshops which provide you 150-300 denars daily and you can can easily pay wages for a party able to defeat any AI lord. Getting 1250 daily or so with 5 workshops (clan tier 4) is pretty doable and it is all you need for sustains a party which will give you an easy victory against any single lord.

Then we have fiefs income, loot, manual trading, quests, and caravans (which are ok in the early game) for swimming in money in some few days. The most challenging and enjoyable campaigns I have played, are these ones when I do not buy workshops and try to play under similar AI rules, and it is still pretty much doable. I can even send you save games where I can sustain a pretty good party as a vassal with only one castle, without any workshop (not saying that fief income is too high because it is not, fief income is actually not great at all. My point here is just that we are getting too much money overall and economy is too easy in this game).

Talking specifically about playing as mercenary, the thing is that it is balanced keeping in mind other sources of income. You can still get tons of money from workshops, loot, and manual trading while playing as mercenary. Fiefs income is the only money source you have to give up while playing as mercenary, and you can still pretty much continue getting money from everything else while getting good money from mercenary payment.
 
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hruza

Knight at Arms
Just buy good workshops which provide you 150-300 denars daily and you can can easily pay wages for a party able to defeat any AI lord.

Talking specifically about playing as mercenary, the thing is that it is balanced keeping in mind other sources of income.

And that's the problem. Game assumes that you have other sources of income. Mercenary contract is then inevitably set with income that will not cower your expenses. Which makes no sense.

And it's exactly the same problem as was build already in to pervious MB games.

Moreover the same thing is to a degree valid for a fief income. If you don't own ton of workshops and caravans, you can't sustain half decent army from a fief. Which is ridiculous in a game that is supposed to simulate medieval feudal world.

Problem of MB series since the beginning is that it simulates medieval world but with modern economy. Devs are probably very proud about very sophisticated and complex economy in the game and they have sunken many hours in to creating and balancing it. Except it's not economy of the world of Mount and Blade. It's economy of modern New York or Ankara. Medieval economy did not work like that. And it does not cause distortions only to player income, all the problems with starving garrisons and towns are also result of it.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
And that's the problem. Game assumes that you have other sources of income. Mercenary contract is then inevitably set with income that will not cower your expenses. Which makes no sense.

And it's exactly the same problem as was build already in to pervious MB games.

Moreover the same thing is to a degree valid for a fief income. If you don't own ton of workshops and caravans, you can't sustain half decent army from a fief. Which is ridiculous in a game that is supposed to simulate medieval feudal world.

Problem of MB series since the beginning is that it simulates medieval world but with modern economy. Devs are probably very proud about very sophisticated and complex economy in the game and they have sunken many ours in to creating and balancing it. Except it's not economy of the world of Mount and Blade. It's economy of modern New York or Ankara. Medieval economy did not work like that. And it does not cause distortions only to player income, all the problems with starving garrisons and towns are also result of it.

Yes, I have just edited my post because I noticed that you were talking about mercenary only play through. In that case, while mercenary payment is not great, I think it is still doable if we add loot income which is one of the best source income in the game. But yes, mercenary payment is not great in that specific case.

I do agree with the game assuming that we are getting caravans and workshops is something that does not feel good, and I dislike it too. I also think that getting workshops should be much harder but this is a different matter and probably not a much popular suggestion. I really would like to see economy settings for player who actually want a challenge, because currently it is only up to us to decide to play with some restrictions in order to make the game more challenging/enjoyable.

Concerning fiefs, well, I am currently getting 3400 denars from only one town, which is ok. Talking about castles, getting 800-1200 from a castle (castle income + villages income) is doable if you set your brother as governor for improving it fast. While fiefs income is not great, it is at least decent but I also find it mediocre compared to other income sources.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Problem is that those ways to make tons of money does not scale well with the size of your party. Yes you can easily do questing that requires ~20 mid tier troops and be in positive numbers while at the same time signing up as a mercenary and take part in AI battles here and there.

But try to raise your party to 100 T4-5 units and you go bankrupt in a few days. Your income as a mercenary should depend on the size and quality of the troops you bring in to fight and you should be able to support larger companies been a mercenary. Life of mercenary should be level up from running errands for local crime authorities, petty lords, innkeepers and hunting runaway daughters of local peasants.
Yeah, you have to build the party for the activity or it can get out of hand. Say as I do, you build this elite 1 party with the intention of constantly beating lords as a merc to build up funds. Like this even with 90 t6 units you can make a lot of money as @Dabos37 says.
However if you go bigger then that, say you become a vassal and create a clan army, you need to be careful how much you spend as although your power goes up, the amount of enemies available for you to defeat doesn't, your "MAX" amount of daily battle loot doesn't increase. You may be able to take on other armies, but this is just getting the enemies in a lump sum still, not really adding extra wins/loot in the long run. That said, I still make a ton of money as a vassal leading a army 24/7, but the potential to start bleeding money certainly exists and I've had games were a got pretty close to rock bottom, particularly at the start of being a vassal with clan army.

I can provide you save games where I have pretty elite parties, and still getting positive income. Just buy good workshops which provide you 150-300 denars daily and you can can easily pay wages for a party able to defeat any AI lord. Getting 1250 daily or so with 5 workshops (clan tier 4) is pretty doable and it is all you need for sustains a party which will give you an easy victory against any single lord.
It's true. I was able to have a nice 500-700 passive income with 1 town, 1 caravan and 3 wool workshop in recent game, while having party of 90 t6. It's modest daily income and gives up the ability to merc, but it's all you need. I do think the variety of viable workshops needs improvement though as I can imagine many players end up as vassals and just can't make any good ones without risk of loosing them. I also dislike using wanderer slot for caravans as I will eventually need more governors.
 
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