Menavlion Infantry

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WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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The swing damage of the Menavilons is much to high. it is very much overpowerd and not realistic.. it is just a Spear and not a Lightsaber!
Spears are actually one of the best close combat weapons. Addind a long blade to it makes them something like a super weapon. The demage makes sense, because you get much more momentum with a long pole than with just holding the blade itself. Menavlions are very powerful in the game, but rather easy to counter with sword and shield, Bow and arrows or throwing weapons like javelins.
 

Eisengewitter

Recruit
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Spears are actually one of the best close combat weapons. Addind a long blade to it makes them something like a super weapon. The demage makes sense, because you get much more momentum with a long pole than with just holding the blade itself. Menavlions are very powerful in the game, but rather easy to counter with sword and shield, Bow and arrows or throwing weapons like javelins.
I dont belive a swing of a spear can penetrate a chainmail. A thurst yes but not a swing.. like if you make a nife on a broomstick :grin:
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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I dont belive a swing of a spear can penetrate a chainmail. A thurst yes but not a swing.. like if you make a nife on a broomstick :grin:
All weapons go through chainmail in this game, I was just talking about the demage. Getting a blade on a long pole swung into you makes more demage than just getting hit by a sword, because it has much much more momentum, you know what I mean?
 

Thistle

Veteran
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All weapons go through chainmail in this game, I was just talking about the demage. Getting a blade on a long pole swung into you makes more demage than just getting hit by a sword, because it has much much more momentum, you know what I mean?
Yes I get you, momentum equals mass x velocity.
 

Eisengewitter

Recruit
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All weapons go through chainmail in this game, I was just talking about the demage. Getting a blade on a long pole swung into you makes more demage than just getting hit by a sword, because it has much much more momentum, you know what I mean?
If this is true it wold hurt more if you hit somewone with a long stick as if u hit him with a short hammer. I am sure wight is much more important.
The menavilon can make fun and yes you can counter it with a shild but the swing damage is absurdly high in my opinion. I also see a problem with the hitbox.
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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If this is true it wold hurt more if you hit somewone with a long stick as if u hit him with a short hammer. I am sure wight is much more important.
The menavilon can make fun and yes you can counter it with a shild but the swing damage is absurdly high in my opinion. I also see a problem with the hitbox.
I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but a sowrd on a long pole makes mor demage than the same sword without the pole. A menavlion blade weights about the same as a small sword. And no, weight isn't much more important. Menavlions are really strong in the game, but its not that easy to block with them and they are pretty slow, in my opinion that balances things pretty well. The only thing I am not satisfied with, is that they also have javelins. They have really long reach with their menavlions already and pretty much one hit archers, so Javelins just gives them another big advantage, which really makes them kind of overpowered..
 

Thistle

Veteran
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I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but a sowrd on a long pole makes mor demage than the same sword without the pole. A menavlion blade weights about the same as a small sword. And no, weight isn't much more important. Menavlions are really strong in the game, but its not that easy to block with them and they are pretty slow, in my opinion that balances things pretty well. The only thing I am not satisfied with, is that they also have javelins. They have really long reach with their menavlions already and pretty much one hit archers, so Javelins just gives them another big advantage, which really makes them kind of overpowered..
Ah now we're talking about moments, force x distance, the output is the force plus the distance between were you are holding the weapon and where the blade is.
 

tom54p

Squire
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Menavlions do alot of damage + have range + high mobility class + crush through = completely broken class.
I don't know if you have any clue of your change's results, but they are completely destroying the game.
 

WakaWaka

Regular
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This class is absolutely overpowered. I don't know who had the splendid idea to make that class. Menavlion is right now, countering cav, coutering light infantry, heavy infantry, and they can grab easily a shield and push a archer. There no class who can counter menavlion rn, Even cav can't do nothing. If you want to implement a 2 handed class they should be slow they shouldn't have this range with crushthought (in warband there was hammer but hammer was SLOW and the range was smallest than a sword and it was working pretty well) , they are making more damage in teamfight than cavalry, right now every 2hander who just have the gameknowledge, and know how to block is destroying every other class.
 

hoonii

Regular
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This class is absolutely overpowered. I don't know who had the splendid idea to make that class. Menavlion is right now, countering cav, coutering light infantry, heavy infantry, and they can grab easily a shield and push a archer. There no class who can counter menavlion rn, Even cav can't do nothing. If you want to implement a 2 handed class they should be slow they shouldn't have this range with crushthought (in warband there was hammer but hammer was SLOW and the range was smallest than a sword and it was working pretty well) , they are making more damage in teamfight than cavalry, right now every 2hander who just have the gameknowledge, and know how to block is destroying every other class.
I have to agree with the shield point, shield shouldn't be available for the menav infantry, it just makes them even more stronger. And the fact that you can spam the menavlion and make it faster than a 1 handed sword is a joke, but this is a problem of the game mechanic, not the menav inf itself. Maybe the spam system should be heavily redone.
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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Menavlions are still highly overpowered! They are quicker, have way more range than any 2h, make way more demage and since the crush through mechanic was introduced, they became literally unblockable, this has to get changed!
 

hoonii

Regular
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Menavlions are still highly overpowered! They are quicker, have way more range than any 2h, make way more demage and since the crush through mechanic was introduced, they became literally unblockable, this has to get changed!
Voulge is in every way better than the menavlion other than the length. I think both has the same amount of crush through but voulge is faster and deals more damage and especially destructive against shields which comes in pretty handy in skirmish. Heavy menav, while having high damage is literally too slow to use, long menavlion is just longer and worse version of normal menav. If you get in a menav users face, he will have no choice other than to fall back or upswing because what I noticed is that menavs don't deal damage and only "poke" at very close range pretty commonly.
If you're getting outspammed by a menavlion its not the menav but the spam systems problem.
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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Voulge is in every way better than the menavlion other than the length. I think both has the same amount of crush through but voulge is faster and deals more damage and especially destructive against shields which comes in pretty handy in skirmish. Heavy menav, while having high damage is literally too slow to use, long menavlion is just longer and worse version of normal menav. If you get in a menav users face, he will have no choice other than to fall back or upswing because what I noticed is that menavs don't deal damage and only "poke" at very close range pretty commonly.
If you're getting outspammed by a menavlion its not the menav but the spam systems problem.
In 1vs1 situations yes, the voulge is better, but not in general. Right before I wrote that comment I played a game of captain mode, 7 voulge armies vs 7 menavlion armies and we (the voulge teams) allmost instantly lost all our troops and made very few kills on the enemy team (we were even falnking them!). The enemy team used allmost all voulge for all 3 rounds and no matter what kinds of troops we took, be it archers, heavy shield troops or shock troops, all the same result. We didn't even come close to them.

Even in skirmish the menavlions are devastating. If you don't have a shield, its a very high risk of crush through and if you have a shield they somehow get around it. If you are on horse, they just one hit you from behind a corner, if you are an archer, the menavlion often reaches you before you even shoot. They make massive damage and are way. WAY too fast for their mass and lengh!
 

vfkaseke

Regular
WB
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In 1vs1 situations yes, the voulge is better, but not in general. Right before I wrote that comment I played a game of captain mode, 7 voulge armies vs 7 menavlion armies and we (the voulge teams) allmost instantly lost all our troops and made very few kills on the enemy team (we were even falnking them!). The enemy team used allmost all voulge for all 3 rounds and no matter what kinds of troops we took, be it archers, heavy shield troops or shock troops, all the same result. We didn't even come close to them.

Even in skirmish the menavlions are devastating. If you don't have a shield, its a very high risk of crush through and if you have a shield they somehow get around it. If you are on horse, they just one hit you from behind a corner, if you are an archer, the menavlion often reaches you before you even shoot. They make massive damage and are way. WAY too fast for their mass and lengh!
If you lose to menavs with voulgiers in captain mode, you're definitely doing something wrong. Voulgiers are the most powerful unit in captain mode, and menavs lose to them pretty much every time in a straight up battle.
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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If you lose to menavs with voulgiers in captain mode, you're definitely doing something wrong. Voulgiers are the most powerful unit in captain mode, and menavs lose to them pretty much every time in a straight up battle.
Show me, my experience says something else
 

vfkaseke

Regular
WB
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Show me, my experience says something else
Show you how? Your team most likely either picked a bad engagement, or the wrong equipment when fighting those menavlions. Always go for franceskas and improved armor on those voulgiers, and you will never lose a melee fight, or in this patch, pretty much any math up (unless the opponent has a very experienced shield unit). Your friends or you probably
1. Engaged the enemy force one by one, or out of sync in your "flank", which is honestly one of the hardest moves to pull off. If you ain't got no VC; don't even try to flank. It will fail nine out of ten times.
2. Didn't order your units to stop shooting, which made them not engage the enemy unit with full force, and led them to being picked apart by the menavlions superior range and numbers in that situation.
3. Had the wrong load out, which hindered your units and gave the menavlions the upper hand in the melee.