Menavlion Infantry in Captain Mode

[dealman]

Whenever there's an Empire faction in captain mode you can bet at least 3 players are gonna take menavlion infantry. I genuinely can't tell if this polearm is bugged or what - it is tremendously overpowered.

Yes, it's slow but that's not really a drawback unless you're in a duel. They will very easily overwhelm pretty much any other unit with ease.

Their only real weakness is the lack of a shield (thus, archers - not cavalry), but considering the map design in MP this really isn't an issue on except maybe 1 map.

 

[Caps]

Whenever there's an Empire faction in captain mode you can bet at least 3 players are gonna take menavlion infantry. I genuinely can't tell if this polearm is bugged or what - it is tremendously overpowered.

Yes, it's slow but that's not really a drawback unless you're in a duel. They will very easily overwhelm pretty much any other unit with ease.

Their only real weakness is the lack of a shield (thus, archers - not cavalry), but considering the map design in MP this really isn't an issue on except maybe 1 map.

you need to be more specific about the kind of menavlion (normal, long, heavy)

 

[AVRC]

All types of Menavlion are under close surveillance ?

 

[Yoshieee]

All types of Menavlion are under close surveillance ?

o ****

 

[durbal]

All types of Menavlion are under close surveillance ?

Glaives are even worse. All swingeable polearms are goofy.

 

[KuroGuroChan]

they were slightly, they don't one shot anymore unless it's head strike, so it's fine atm. And yeah glaives are so strong!

 

[Brandis.]

I don’t think Menavlions are especially stronger than other shock troops. Guards and Peasants with Billhooks are both equal if not stronger in my opinion.

 

[EasyGhost]

I don’t think Menavlions are especially stronger than other shock troops. Guards and Peasants with Billhooks are both equal if not stronger in my opinion.

But it's a long weapon, and when I get into the face of the enemy, they shouldn't oneshot me with a wooden staff part of that spear.

 

[dealman]

they were slightly, they don't one shot anymore unless it's head strike, so it's fine atm. And yeah glaives are so strong!

So being able to one-shot is the only credential for a weapon to be considered overpowered? Sorry, but I strongly disagree.

The menavlion is readily available to a lot of the Empire troops, and it is at least in my opinion, by far the best polearm. It absolutely and utterly will decimate any other infantry or shield infantry with extreme ease.

This is especially true in Captain mode where the AI is brain dead and you can just flank behind the enemy as they clash and easily rack up 6+ kills by just spamming overheads.

The Menavlion and really - polearms in general, are utterly and fundamentally broken.

 

[Brandis.]

I never said that the weapon was balanced, I said that the class in captain is balanced.

 

[dealman]

I never said that the weapon was balanced, I said that the class in captain is balanced.

Wholeheartedly disagree, if they're up against only archers and head towards the archers like dummies - then yes, they will melt. You also have to keep in mind a lot of the maps in captain mode are fairly punishing for archers.

Anything else? No, the menavlions will win 100% of the time with a competent captain. The sheer number they get is what makes them so effective.

That said, adding a minimum distance for polearms to be effective like spears would go a long way making them more balanced and in line with other weapons.

 

[Squirrelfart]

Wholeheartedly disagree, if they're up against only archers and head towards the archers like dummies - then yes, they will melt. You also have to keep in mind a lot of the maps in captain mode are fairly punishing for archers.

Anything else? No, the menavlions will win 100% of the time with a competent captain. The sheer number they get is what makes them so effective.

Menavlions get like, 17 troops, with 15 armour and around >130c.

Meanwhile, the Sturgian Warrior can get a 2h axe for >100c but >20 troops and 24 armour, while the Ulfhednar can get 6 armour with mauls that decimate armour and 18 troops, or the Peasant Levy can get a billhook for a count of 25 and an armour count of 12. Guard can get equal numbers of troops with an arguably faster weapon that is more suited for close quarters, and the way that units engage in captain right now make it so that menavlion side swings will frequently glance off of your own teammates.

 

[dealman]

Menavlions get like, 17 troops, with 15 armour and around >130c.

Meanwhile, the Sturgian Warrior can get a 2h axe for >100c but >20 troops and 24 armour, while the Ulfhednar can get 6 armour with mauls that decimate armour and 18 troops, or the Peasant Levy can get a billhook for a count of 25 and an armour count of 12. Guard can get equal numbers of troops with an arguably faster weapon that is more suited for close quarters, and the way that units engage in captain right now make it so that menavlion side swings will frequently glance off of your own teammates.

The other factions have big glaring weaknesses, though. The Empire really doesn't.

Guard looks good on paper but I personally haven't had too much success with them, whereas with Menavlion infantry you just decimate everything - especially with the long one.

 

[Squirrelfart]

The other factions have big glaring weaknesses, though. The Empire really doesn't.

Guard looks good on paper but I personally haven't had too much success with them, whereas with Menavlion infantry you just decimate everything - especially with the long one.

Vlandia doesn't have an obvious weakness either. They have solid mace infantry, excellent cavalry, alright archers. They get 25 Billhooks anyway, and that 7 extra peasants really add up to something.

Sturgia remains dominant in Captain mode, thanks to the high armour value of their main infantry being able to cover their stupidly, absurdly good anti-armour mallet Zerkers, along with competent cavalry that's able to account for any potential archers, horse archers, or kiting archers (don't forget map design). Also, the >20 warriors with 2h axes (they're literally identical in terms of gear to the improved armour zerker). They walk forward into you and you die, and if you try to run, cavalry bogs you down. The archers are also average, but have the option to take a 2h axe, so they're not a glaring weakness, especially since the strategy of Sturgia is melee-centric.

Aserai is a middling faction right now, but Guard spam backed up with Mamelukes and Tribals is an actual viable strategy for them, because of the armour and effectiveness of the Guard. The only thing Aserai lacks is heavy infantry, but Tribal Warriors can contest that ground.

Again, the long menavlion seems like it would get into the way of themselves since side swings are all but hopeless due to the closeness of your teammates, and the fact that the long menavlion has a less accessible sweetspot due to how tightly the AI like to fight.

 

[dealman]

Again, the long menavlion seems like it would get into the way of themselves since side swings are all but hopeless due to the closeness of your teammates, and the fact that the long menavlion has a less accessible sweetspot due to how tightly the AI like to fight.

There's more attacks than just swinging, though. You can overhead and thrust as well, still deals 100+ damage reliably. My AI seems to use overhead instead when they clash with other infantry so swinging isn't too much of an issue.

 

[Squirrelfart]

There's more attacks than just swinging, though. You can overhead and thrust as well, still deals 100+ damage reliably. My AI seems to use overhead instead when they clash with other infantry so swinging isn't too much of an issue.

The thrust doesn't nearly deal as much damage as the swings, and your own overheads can get caught on the person behind you. I also don't trust the reliability of the AI to only use overheads, and their accuracy with overheads aren't stellar.

 

[bblzd]

Menav in Captain mode is a bottom tier shock troop now.

Every shock troop has a strong 2H weapon that can one shot. Menav is now one of the worst after the nerf.

I don't think people realize how heavily it has been nerfed just yet. Any faction that spams shock troops can be more effective than Empire.

 

[ScrotumScratcher]

Let's actually take a closer look at the menavlion compared to other polearms and two handers in the game

Menavlion - 129 dmg 83 swing speed
Glaive - 140 dmg 89 swing speed
Heavy glaive - 174 dmg 73 swing speed
Bardiche - 145 dmg 84 swing speed
Great axe -141 dmg 87 swing speed
Voulge - 147 dmg 97 swing speed
long falx -133 dmg 97 swing speed

Menavlion also has awful handling at 72 and the actual menavlion character himself only has 7 armor so they get melted by bows and weak weapons.

After patch 1.2, the menavlion will be one of the weakest polearms in terms of damage, speed, and handling, with length being its only advantage.

 

[KuroGuroChan]

I am only saying that they are okay in skirmisch, but Captain mode who cares honestly, most of the things are done by AI. Just take archers i guess, just like in skirmisch.

 

[bblzd]

Captain mode ..most of the things are done by AI.

That's actually why unit balancing matters a lot in Captain mode. In skirmish a 1% difference in units balance is not noticed, but multiply that by 18x A.I. units in your squad and it can become noticeable. It's fine if you don't like playing Captain Mode but then perhaps refrain from commenting about its balance in a thread specifically about Captain mode lol.