Melee Weapons: Effective Range

[Damien]

I haven't -seen- this come up before.. so if it has, forgive me.

I would dearly love to see melee weapons, rather than simply having a particular reach, also have an effective range. Meaning, you can strike with your weapon from any distance, but you'll do the most damage at your weapon's "effective range."

For example, a "sword" may have a reach of 102, but the 'effective range' would probably be more than 98.


In going with this, and the most important reason for this feature: enemies could be programmed to always attempt an attack from their weapon's effective range.


I can't tell you how many times I've just shook my head as two opponents with greatswords -crowded- one another, attacking while practically pressed up against one another. It looks silly. They should be standing quite a bit apart.

Also, it would give more utility to 'knife fighters' and falchion-wielders, who would be able to reduce the effectiveness of spearmen and greatswordsmen by moving inside their effective range, limiting their ability to deal damage.


It also might be nice if some weapons were given a 'minimum' range, and anything inside that cannot be harmed. Polearms, mostly, would suffer from this. I don't care how good you are with a lance.. if I'm practically pressed up against you.. your lance is useless until you manage to back up.


Just something I'd really like to see implemented, and I feel would add a more logical and realistic 'look' to combat.

 

[Lord Jaden]

well ive been stuck on the ground with a lance and actually you do have a lot smaller 'effective range'. i was tryin to kill this swadian footman who had a sword, i would attack but since he was way inside my 'effective range' as i was pullin back the lance to attack it ran it to him before i could get a full shot at him, i believe it did like 3 damage. while he was up at me he just kept wailing away at my shield which i had up and that eventually broke and then i was completley screwed.

 

[Yoshiboy]

i would love to see this, i think its a brilliant idea. I just dont know how much it would harm the gameplay (if at all) of mount and blade. I dont think the game is really fast paced enough for it to work well. Maybe if dodging were implemented.

 

[Sir Prince]

I agree completely. My points to add:
1) A weapon can still do some damage or force an enemy back a step if you prod them with the end of your reach.
2) With a polearm you could try and shove the enemy away a step or two or if your strength is higher then his/hers/it's by a bit knock him/her/it down.

 

[James Sterrett]

On the other hand, the striking "too close" deal with grappling close-quarters techniques (many of which still use the sword) that would be rathre cumbersome to load into the game.

 

[Sir Prince]

True, unfortunately current technology commonly (and improtantly) inexpensively availiable limits way too much.

 

[CptBarnaclebeard]

If it could be implemented this would actually be a great idea. It is logical and I think as you said would give incentive to keep some distance or none between you and your opponents. Spears, for example, shouldn't do any damage at all once you are inside of them (at the moment their damage is significantly reduced, but can still interrupt an attack by you, a major nuisance) and swords do the most damage at least while cutting at the center of percussion. Perhaps when the ranges for weapons are calculate they should take into account whether you are cutting or thrusting.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I think this is already in the game to some extent, certainly with spears and possibly with one and two handed weapons though it might only be to do with hitting at beginning or end not range.
Another thing, I use spears in the game and if the (realistic) change of no damage at close range was implemented, then spear fighting would have to be refined. Just so it included some way of keeping the enemy at a distance or fighting past shields and such.
Good ideas by the way.

 

[Worbah]

It already is implemented. try hitting someone with a bardiche when you are REALLY close.

 

[Cale]

It already is implemented. try hitting someone with a bardiche when you are REALLY close.

Or even with a sword. Also, swords particularly do more damage when you hit with the tip, you also get a different sound effect.

 

[Damien]

I have noticed that damage varies a bit depending on how close you are. But there doesn't appear to be an actual number for effective range. If there were, I imagine it wouldn't be -too- difficult to code the game so that the AI recognizes the effective range of its weapon and remains at that range as best it can.

As I said in my first post -- currently enemies have a strong tendency to crowd you (and each other). It's really a small concern (which is why I'm not keen on pressing it as a MUST HAVE implementation), but it does look rather silly when two greatswordsmen are practically shoving their chests together while they fight.

Likewise, even spearfighters have a tendency to crowd you.. rendering them fairly ineffective (but not totally, they can still continuously interrupt your attacks and there is still a chance for them to deal damage even while pressed against you).


Also, if a true value for effective range/reach were implemented, it could follow a more 'realistic' model (I know some of you hate that word). Swords should be most dangerous at their center or percussion, not at the tip (except for thrusting, of course, which is a whole new issue that this type of system might cause, I realize).

 

[Arn de Gothia]

With that said, spears/pikes should do a lot more damage if you hit someone, because if you manage to keep the distance to hit your opponent it should be rewarded. Doing 8 damage just doesn't suffice.

 

[guspav]

sounds like a good idea, I hope it gets implemented

 

[NikkTheTrick]

I also think that effective range should depend on the type of attack. For example, a thrust with a sword will be effective even at point-blank range.

 

[Kissaki]

As I said in my first post -- currently enemies have a strong tendency to crowd you (and each other). It's really a small concern (which is why I'm not keen on pressing it as a MUST HAVE implementation), but it does look rather silly when two greatswordsmen are practically shoving their chests together while they fight.

There's a simple explanation for this: They're grappling!

I do agree it looks a bit silly, though. But recently I noticed that if I'm using a short blade like a falchion, and they have a longer blade, they tend to avoid closing in too much - they're closing in just as much as they need for their weapon to reach, but I myself could not reach them. This predicament was particularly noticeable by the fact that they had a faster movement speed than mine, so I had to do an awful lot of running.

(Of course, what I do is I back up in order to lure them towards me, and then I charge forward again. That usually works, unless they have more javelins left )

 

[Zarathustra217]

Very much agree to this suggestion (Actually what made me register at this forum! )

Perhaps it could be implemented so that if someone attacked with a weapon at distances significantly shorter than the most effective distance, they would use their attack to push back the enemy?

 

[Merlkir]

I totally agree. So many good "combat gameplay" suggestions appeared lately...I wish Armagan implements them in the next "awesome big kickass" update .)

 

[Rollipeikko]

And perhaps they could even make somekind of new animation for polearms if foe is close enough. Somekind of push with the shaft...
Thrusting with spear at very close range just looks plain stupid