nox said:If you think you're unhappy about this, imagine how the whole cultures and societies felt who had invested much in traditions that involved swords and cavalry? When a dirt poor peasant can end your deal with a mass produced firearm, you become a lot less special.
King Harkinian said:nox said:If you think you're unhappy about this, imagine how the whole cultures and societies felt who had invested much in traditions that involved swords and cavalry? When a dirt poor peasant can end your deal with a mass produced firearm, you become a lot less special.
Mass production didn't exist at the time -- heck, there wasn't even such a thing as a "factory".
I'm sick and tired of always seeing the same old hackneyed tropes when talking about the early modern period.
King Harkinian said:nox said:If you think you're unhappy about this, imagine how the whole cultures and societies felt who had invested much in traditions that involved swords and cavalry? When a dirt poor peasant can end your deal with a mass produced firearm, you become a lot less special.
Mass production didn't exist at the time -- heck, there wasn't even such a thing as a "factory".
I'm sick and tired of always seeing the same old hackneyed tropes when talking about the early modern period.
Night Ninja said:The current speeds for cutting swords are far too slow in general, but they tweaked that for some nebulous ideal of balance, so I can't be ****ed to address that.
My main issue with melee is that block crushing on two handed weapons doesn't work properly. AFAIK the chances of that happening are tied to the weight disparity between the attacking weapon and the defending weapon, so the current stats are obviously inappropriate.
Votadini said:King Harkinian said:nox said:If you think you're unhappy about this, imagine how the whole cultures and societies felt who had invested much in traditions that involved swords and cavalry? When a dirt poor peasant can end your deal with a mass produced firearm, you become a lot less special.
Mass production didn't exist at the time -- heck, there wasn't even such a thing as a "factory".
I'm sick and tired of always seeing the same old hackneyed tropes when talking about the early modern period.
Still, when professional sword troops eg. Katana Samurai reached the ashigaru (peasant) lines it was a massacre in hand to hand so it balanced out.
Aeon221 said:Not true. The Venetian Arsenal was mass producing ships back in the early 12th century and may very well be the source of the word.
Also, there are tons of examples of Roman era mass production of everything from grain (at enormous industrial mills) to pottery to weapons, in what would most likely be considered a somewhat primitive factory today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mill
And don't forget that the Romans famously assembled ships during the Punic Wars from numbered standardized prefab parts built all over the place.
Votadini said:Still, when professional sword troops eg. Katana Samurai reached the ashigaru (peasant) lines it was a massacre in hand to hand so it balanced out.
Votadini said:So basically, although the weapons weren't "mass produced" by today's standards - guns around the world certainly were produced en masse to fuel the ever-present warfare in feudal Japan alone.
Depends on whether they're loading cartridges or loose powder; loose powder taking longer. Matchlocks could certainly meet two rounds per minute at a push, but since they only carried enough powder for twelve rounds it would be rather unlikely they'd ever want to be firing that quickly.Mattressi said:I was under the impression that flintlocks (none of the rifles in WFaS appear to be matchlock) had a fire rate of between 2 and 3 rounds per minute (30 seconds to 20 seconds to reload)?
Not when combined with the "Mount" part, no.Because the "and Sword" part of the title is very misleading.
They were nearly useless at the time. The only reason non-firearm infantry were fielded in the period was to fend off cavalry, other than that they were obsolete.As it is, melee infantry are near useless in multiplayer
They get pikes. Rather useful against cavalry (who are rather useful against muskets, which are rather useful against infantry ...)That said, I think the game should be more about the guns than the melee - but melee should have some kind of advantage.
Shields work against bullets too FYI.Lord Willy said:you can fight arrows with shield but you cant do anything with a bullet
By that token, melee weapons are even easier since you just have to click the mouse button. You're ignoring what some would call the crucial part of the process - hitting the opponent.Musket are really easy to use even for a new comer , and the reticule is just a horizontal so , you just have to aim and it ends there.
The Miquelet is the closest to a flintlock, but even this isn't a true flintlock. Not sure what the Dutch guns are meant to represent, I suspect snaphaunce.Proteus said:Only the muskets/carabines/pistols where it says Miguelet or Dutch are of the flintlock type.
There was no patterning, but the contract system could produce over 100 muskets per week quite easily in England alone, which would certainly sound like mass production to me. I'd have said production to industrial standards would have been a defining factor in industrialised production myself thoughKing Harkinian said:But these guns were produced by individual gunsmiths without industrial standards (which is what defines mass production). You could produce large amounts of goods via a domestic or putting out system, but it still doesn't qualify as mass production.
King Harkinian said:Votadini said:Still, when professional sword troops eg. Katana Samurai reached the ashigaru (peasant) lines it was a massacre in hand to hand so it balanced out.
You do realize that there never was such a soldier as a "Katana Samurai"? Shogun: Total War II is woefully inaccurate in that regard, don't use it as a source. Samurai always carried katana as a sidearm, but it was never their main weapon (that mostly being either a polearm or a bow) and you wouldn't see units of samurai charging into battle only armed with katanas.
King Harkinian said:But these guns were produced by individual gunsmiths without industrial standards (which is what defines mass production). You could produce large amounts of goods via a domestic or putting out system, but it still doesn't qualify as mass production.
Archonsod said:There was no patterning, but the contract system could produce over 100 muskets per week quite easily in England alone, which would certainly sound like mass production to me. I'd have said production to industrial standards would have been a defining factor in industrialised production myself though
lord halt said:my favourite melee is the big funking samurai sword that you get from thir bu that's the only one there is they need new weapons we need to make our own weapons