Melee needs a slightly harsher turncap.

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So how exactly did you punish solid players with huscarl shield that only blocked in warband?

If a player had enough gold to purchase a Huscarl shield along with their preferred weapon loadout, they would probably invest it in something more practical -like armor.

As far as punishing turtles in Warband, they pretty much punished themselves by playing that style. Not only will your shield get battered down pretty quickly -as OGL said, but a player who is turtling or passively hit-blocking has a much diminished game impact. They aren't applying proper pressure to their opponent, so thus it's also very likely they aren't keeping any fidelity in the groupfight, which means their mark can probably go make a play on one of their teammates while they themselves are playing too passively to intercept.

Turtling affected a team negatively on a both an individual and group level. It wasn't a problem for people playing against turtles, just the turtlers themselves. There was never a need to find a way/develop a mechanic to get around turtling, as the style itself is very self-defeating.
 
See the duel final involving @Aprikosenmann recently - holding up attack ready to kick was half the duel.
I only just now saw this post. I don't know what you were seeing there, but 90% of the time Apri held the up attack, it wasn't to try and offensive kick me, but, like he said, to bait out my interrupts. Offensive kicking in duels works, but is incredibly ineffective and risky, which is why I exclusively use defensive kicking. IIRC, Apri managed to kickslash me a grand total of ONE time with an offensive kick in the entire match.

Yes, defensive kicking is low risk high reward, but they punish sloppy footwork. Getting defensive kicked is 100% your own mistake, baited or not. They are avoidable at all times. To me it is the same as a failed block.
 
Not sure why the discussion has moved to being about defensive and offensive kicks, yes offensive kicks are harder to do, their utility is more relevant to groupfights (e.g. getting a surround on someone). My point in referencing the duel was that it has become so common it is being played around at all times - they didn't try to offensive kick you, but part of the benefit is that they're set up ready to punish if you make the mistake of coming close and not playing around range.

So yes getting kicked is "your mistake", but the point is whether that's how we want fights to be at all. I would say they discourage trading blows, and instead encourage range play and hit and run style duels, which has been a problem for multiple reasons throughout development.

Take a look at this video as an example, the whole thing is worth a watch but for a good example of 1v1 see 3:25-4:00 and 4:15-5:35.



There are kicks, but their slower speed means players are confident they can pressure and trade blows more often.

Compare to your duel, where kicks are far more frequent, and ranged play is more dominant. 20:45 is probably most egregious lol.



I'm not saying it's night and day, BL has improved massively, and it's notable that when you both stop ranging and kicking and instead just play your melee game you both perform a lot better. I'm not saying kicks are OP, they just influence the metagame a little too much and we should consider what we want to encourage in gameplay terms.
 
@OurGloriousLeader , unfortunately as you know, the Moot server we used to test these things with is not available ?. However in custom battle we can test even though the MP has specialized parameters within the client server. Take a look at these parameters in native_parameters.xml; these (test) are dramatically over-altered to show the difference dramatically.



Certainly "delta rotation" is the magic parameter for this and is where you could punish those ballerina turns so fast by betting on a slower turn (warband style) more realistic in my eyes and favoring a more precise control over the footwork (skill).

@OurGloriousLeader , in 1.6.1 they have almost halved the value in horizontal_attack_rotation_base_speed_multiplier. Tested in SP custom battle... but I guess it will be implemented globally in the future changes that will take place when 1.6.1 moves to main and we have servers.

Now:
<native_parameter id="bipedal_delta_rotation_threshold_for_keeping_local_velocity" value="2.5"/>
<native_parameter id="minimum_weapon_inertia_for_reduced_rotation_speed" value="3.0"/>
<native_parameter id="horizontal_attack_rotation_base_speed_multiplier" value="0.35"/>

Ballerina lovers are going to have a hard time replicating that kind of escaping and spinning surprise hit again ? .
 
@OurGloriousLeader , in 1.6.1 they have almost halved the value in horizontal_attack_rotation_base_speed_multiplier. Tested in SP custom battle... but I guess it will be implemented globally in the future changes that will take place when 1.6.1 moves to main and we have servers.

Now:


Ballerina lovers are going to have a hard time replicating that kind of escaping and spinning surprise hit again ? .
Let's hope so... Cuz at this point, the game has less to do with actual skill, and more with the amount of DPI your mouse has...
 
@OurGloriousLeader , in 1.6.1 they have almost halved the value in horizontal_attack_rotation_base_speed_multiplier. Tested in SP custom battle... but I guess it will be implemented globally in the future changes that will take place when 1.6.1 moves to main and we have servers.

Now:


Ballerina lovers are going to have a hard time replicating that kind of escaping and spinning surprise hit again ? .
Yes it's coming in MP as well, only got to play with a little but it felt much better. Long overdue! I take full credit and deserve a VIP badge.
 
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