Melee needs a slightly harsher turncap.

[OneOrThrEe]

Well i suppose suggesting gameplay mechanic changes would be best if done all in one huge post so everything is disclosed. Because now it seems to me like we all have our assumptions and pet peeves with the game.
I'm glad most people agree that cav needs balancing, and inf's anti-cav capabilities.
But really, glorious, i think that, since you do have a lot to say about the game mechanics, you might be better off just making a huge post about everything you think should be done with the game. I'd gladly read that.
Cuz right now considering only turncaps without plethora of other mechanics doesn't seem like it would lead anywhere

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Ok nice now I have some background info. Reducing shield hp would do most of the job. But would again nerf inf :/
But dont you agree its nice to be able to punish full turtles with offensive kicks now?
Also you say its bad to kill those solid players with a single kick move, but didnt wb vet also slaughter solid people mostly with the left angle spam move?

I never really had that much of a problem killing full turtles, it was the people who were just good enough to prolong the fight and punish mistakes that were the issue, and that isn't solved with this, it's just a different style needed.

We did slaughter noobs yes, but it was through the basic attacks and core competence over them, not just left hand spam. It is the same in BL tbh, most dont know how to turn into attacks, so it's really just an issue at the higher skill level I'm describing.

Bro chill, combat is fine DDDDD
No need to change it all over again just to reach wb feeling a bit closer.
How sure are you on that one, and would you dare to not believe what I will say now?
If I remember correct then Pacemaker tried not a single offensive kick, I tried like 5-10 of which 1-2 did hit. When I was holding I was mainly waiting for him to interrupt, because that was a weakness of him that I found before. But Im sure you know better than us how often we we were waiting to kick.

It really isn't fine - it's a lot better than it was, but it's still sloppy and plenty of improvements to be made.

You did try to kick, or be in a position to kick, way more than Pace for sure, and you both stayed as far away as possible from each other. It's plainly clear the degree to which the kick meta has influenced duelling.

Well i suppose suggesting gameplay mechanic changes would be best if done all in one huge post so everything is disclosed. Because now it seems to me like we all have our assumptions and pet peeves with the game.
I'm glad most people agree that cav needs balancing, and inf's anti-cav capabilities.
But really, glorious, i think that, since you do have a lot to say about the game mechanics, you might be better off just making a huge post about everything you think should be done with the game. I'd gladly read that.
Cuz right now considering only turncaps without plethora of other mechanics doesn't seem like it would lead anywhere

Well, I have before and the devs hate that style and everyone else thinks I just hate the game and want Warband 2.0 which isn't true ?

 

[Rangah]

You did try to kick, or be in a position to kick, way more than Pace for sure, and you both stayed as far away as possible from each other. It's plainly clear the degree to which the kick meta has influenced duelling.

Regarding the duel finals, personally, they were incredibly boring to watch. This isn't an insult to you, Apri and Pace, you're both insane players, but the fact that the top two duelists spent so much of the duel playing range and baiting opponent's moves and being defensive, is telling something about the direction melee is heading in right now.

It could have been just a clash of styles, or I'm simply not well versed in dueling enough to understand the fine details, if so then I'm speaking out of my ass, but I just would like to see something else than kicks being the aggression move in top tier play.

 

[OneOrThrEe]

In the end of the day we must believe in our TaleWorld overlords to make mount&blade great again.
Or custom serverz

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Regarding the duel finals, personally, they were incredibly boring to watch. This isn't an insult to you, Apri and Pace, you're both insane players, but the fact that the top two duelists spent so much of the duel playing range and baiting opponent's moves and being defensive, is telling something about the direction melee is heading in right now.

Yes it were boring slow and defensive duels. But the main reason for that is this 30cm 1000speed butter knife we had to use.
A longer slower weapon will create a meta where kicks are almost useless and feints are the way to go.

 

[Pajikoman]

Turncap wont make inf weaker against cav or archers imo. Because if i will compare it to warband turncap u can turn fast and easily with blocking or with holding attack i think its almost the same as in bannerlord. The main difference here is, when u release the attack. In warband if u release an attack u cant turn much, u can turn for like 90 degrees. But in bannerlord after realease an attack u can turn where u want. U have no limits. And i think thats the problem. If they will change turncap after attack release it will feel better.

Thats only my opinion. I have test it how turncap work in warband and bannerlord and for me its just feel better in warband. I dont want to make warband 2, but we should inspire in some ways from warband. Because warband has better combat for me and for many other players.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

@OurGloriousLeader , unfortunately as you know, the Moot server we used to test these things with is not available ?. However in custom battle we can test even though the MP has specialized parameters within the client server. Take a look at these parameters in native_parameters.xml; these (test) are dramatically over-altered to show the difference dramatically.

​

Certainly "delta rotation" is the magic parameter for this and is where you could punish those ballerina turns so fast by betting on a slower turn (warband style) more realistic in my eyes and favoring a more precise control over the footwork (skill).

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

@OurGloriousLeader , unfortunately as you know, the Moot server we used to test these things with is not available ?. However in custom battle we can test even though the MP has specialized parameters within the client server. Take a look at these parameters in native_parameters.xml; these (test) are dramatically over-altered to show the difference dramatically.

​

Certainly "delta rotation" is the magic parameter for this and is where you could punish those ballerina turns so fast by betting on a slower turn (warband style) more realistic in my eyes and favoring a more precise control over the footwork (skill).

That looks like a great example and it doesn't seem to have the camera getting "stuck" like in early Beta. Thank you!

 

[Terco_Viejo]

That looks like a great example and it doesn't seem to have the camera getting "stuck" like in early Beta. Thank you!

A pleasure mate...
Run your tests and share the results if you feel up to it.

 

[dijiTurk]

Turning back and attacking the follower is a thing in m&b series as basic behavior.

I want some of the realistic ideas but not sure about this one.

What is next? "Nerf shields dramaticly because it should brake after a few hits"? More realistic ideas that limits fun?

 

[Pajikoman]

@OurGloriousLeader , unfortunately as you know, the Moot server we used to test these things with is not available ?. However in custom battle we can test even though the MP has specialized parameters within the client server. Take a look at these parameters in native_parameters.xml; these (test) are dramatically over-altered to show the difference dramatically.

​

Certainly "delta rotation" is the magic parameter for this and is where you could punish those ballerina turns so fast by betting on a slower turn (warband style) more realistic in my eyes and favoring a more precise control over the footwork (skill).

Niice, thats it, so easy change and it will make it better.

 

[Rangah]

@OurGloriousLeader , unfortunately as you know, the Moot server we used to test these things with is not available ?. However in custom battle we can test even though the MP has specialized parameters within the client server. Take a look at these parameters in native_parameters.xml; these (test) are dramatically over-altered to show the difference dramatically.

​

Certainly "delta rotation" is the magic parameter for this and is where you could punish those ballerina turns so fast by betting on a slower turn (warband style) more realistic in my eyes and favoring a more precise control over the footwork (skill).

Yes, this please

 

[DennyWiseau]

Howdy.

Currently, there seems to be little or no limit on how fast and far your character can turn while attacking. Not only can this look ugly and cause chaos in larger groupfights with newer players literally spinning out of control with a 2h axe, it also breaks the balance of melee positioning and footwork. Since the speed of an attack can be manipulated by turning into the attack (e.g. moving the weapon closer to the opponent), if you can turn as fast as you like, any weapon can effectively be as fast as you can turn, after the windup phase at least.

This was the biggest issue with Warbands melee combat aswell, really made pvp clunky and derpy. It's better in bannerlord but still very easy to abuse and ruin pvp

 

[Pacemaker]

It could have been just a clash of styles, or I'm simply not well versed in dueling enough to understand the fine details, if so then I'm speaking out of my ass, but I just would like to see something else than kicks being the aggression move in top tier play.

I can assure you, it's all a matter of playstyles. Though I'm not sure what you really want high tier duels to be. For instance, there wasn't anyone in the tournament using inverse and fancy feints to get hits in, and that's a strong playstyle with lots of potential. Apri and I are consistency players and that's how we win. If there was someone like Arni in the finals it could have looked quite differently.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Turning back and attacking the follower is a thing in m&b series as basic behavior.

?

 

[dijiTurk]

?

I dont want them to nerf that functionality, dude.

 

[KSHMR]

No.

Yes.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I dont want them to nerf that functionality, dude.

You cannot full 180 swing in Warband; it's close, but you need to turn, then start your attack animation, and ensure you're attacking in the correct direction. Terco's vid likely isn't exactly how it should be, but it's closer to Warband, so I don't know what you mean by "turning and attacking is how it is in MnB".

Yes.

Incorrect on every level of commanding in MnB.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I said "dramatically" twice . Obviously that need a proper tune up.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

It could have been just a clash of styles, or I'm simply not well versed in dueling enough to understand the fine details, if so then I'm speaking out of my ass, but I just would like to see something else than kicks being the aggression move in top tier play.

Right now defensive kicks are the disgusting thing. Not only are 90% of kicks defensive kicks (when shieldless) but you also cannot really punish them (if stabs were a little bit faster you could) if your enemy can block well. I don't get why everyone who dislikes kicking always names the offensive ones as problematic.