Melee combat in v0.710

[jrawlings]

I've downloaded the 0.710 but won't be able to play it until I get home. I've read that melee combat got the adjustment that you could toggle using the mouse to control your swings and blocks. I read one post saying that it has made it a bit tougher to block than before.

Anyway, I was wondering, do you still see the arrows above your opponent? Can you toggle swinging but NOT blocking?

Also, any suggestions to melee fighting using the new system would be greatly appreciated... perhaps this can be the master thread to discuss this issue?

 

[jrawlings]

Even on your opponent? Ouch. With the computer's ability to feint and its rapid swings, I can see how that would be extremely difficult!

 

[DaLagga]

Heh, thats putting it mildly. Its pretty much impossible to block thrusts in time, especially when they go feinting 10 times before the actual attack. Perhaps if you only had to hold the defend button and face the correct direction...but the way it is, you have to play under the old system, or die.

 

[James Sterrett]

There also seems to be a lag on launching 1-handed attacks in the training, when armed with sword and shield; I kept trying to switch from block to strike and couldn't get the attack off before another attack came in.

Might be my incompetence, but I can win the other duels....

 

[DaLagga]

Its not just you. Because of the shield block speed, if an enemy has higher weapon skill or a faster weapon whan you, you basically sit there blocking until your shield is gone. My suggestion is use the switch shield button to put it away and just use your weapon to block (using the old blocking system of course). Shields are really only useful now against ranged attacks and mounted opponents. Although i'm not trying to complain to much, i love the blood!

 

[Volkier]

The blocking with mouse-view is easy if they attack from either side, but for top and piercing, I somehow can't get it to block.

 

[The Pope]

I can parry reasonably well in 1v1 (11 years of playing twitch heavy FPSs helps) and it really is satisfying every time you succesfully parry.

 

[jrawlings]

Ok, I'm home now and have played with the melee combat a bit in training. I decided to put autoblock on and mouse swing for offense. Here is what I've seen:

1. You get the yellow arrows above you to indicate where your swing is going. Very helpful!
2. I have found it is easiest to get the correct swing if you press the mouse button as you begin moving the mouse. For side to side, pressing the mouse then moving seems to work pretty good too.
3. Having a shield in training is not nearly as useful as before. You can still use the back-them-into-the corner technique, but you will have much less success than before. I lost 80% (at least) of the fights where I had a shield and won 90% of the fights when the AI had a shield.
4. You can string together swings a lot faster than before. Best example is the side to side. Sweep back and forth doing side to side swings and so long as you don't get interrupted by a block, you can get on a roll and pretty much wax anyone. If you get interrupted, the swing returns to the same side, so you must repeat that swing. For example, if you swing from right to left, and it gets block, do another right to left as that is much faster than trying a left to right. If you don't get blocked, your sword is now on the left so do the left to right. Hope I didn't confuse anyone!
5. If I have the polearm, I like to begin the fight with it cocked in the thrust position (perverts don't say anything damnit!) It is easiest to accomplish this by looking skyward.

 

[Sir Prince]

Really bugging me is that when mounted with a sword of war I almost always swing TOWARDS THE CAMERA wich is annoying as I generaly have the camera pointed at my prey, oh, and this is in both 1st and 3rd person views. Or else I jab with the sword, it's extremely frustraaing. This is with mouse attacking.

EDIT: Post (that hasn't been deleted) #2100.

 

[CptBarnaclebeard]

I generally have to agree with the sentiment that a shield is detrimental now. This destroys the old reliability of sword and shield quite a bit and I am beginning to think that I shouldn't even bother using the shield in melee. The lag between defending with the shield and attacking with the sword leads to some interesting results. If you manage to get the momentum you can take on tons of guys in melee alone at a low level and win, however, even if a low level unit manages to get the momentum on you , even if you are fairly high level, you are almost inevitably doomed.

 

[jrawlings]

I've heard the idea of tieing in the shield skill to the delay, which would give added utility to the shield skill. So the higher your skill in shield, the shorter the delay. I would be all for that.

Also the current system makes you think twice about going sword/shield vs. two hander.

 

[Raybur Ravenloc]

hmm, i loved the idea of the new combat while reading about it, but i think it should be implemented a bit differently
the delay on shields should be greater before the shield becomes after and not have much delay between lowering it and swinging.
should be a way to change direction of an attack easily while weapon is held back for a swing (ie. i have my sword raised overhead, i should be able to make a quick left-right motion with my mouse to move it to the left for a sideswing. without having to swing or block first)
blocking should, as someone else said, move with your mouse. (ie. i am blocking for a side-swipe and see my opponent switch to a thrust, i should be able to jerk the mouse down to block it, without having to release the block and reblock in that direction.

 

[Sir Saladin]

I don't mind having the new delay when trying to block, but I don't want any delay when I switch to attack because standing there paralyzed is going to make me break my mouse button! And a cheap little shield like the one you start out with shouldn't be too clumsy at all. I like the additions with this patch, just thought I'd ad my two-cents. I tried the new mouse-movement targetting but I think I'm just too used to the old way and I don't feel like retraining yet.

 

[knoll]

Really bugging me is that when mounted with a sword of war I almost always swing TOWARDS THE CAMERA wich is annoying as I generaly have the camera pointed at my prey, oh, and this is in both 1st and 3rd person views. Or else I jab with the sword, it's extremely frustraaing. This is with mouse attacking.

EDIT: Post (that hasn't been deleted) #2100.

Agreed. Of all the new changes, this bothered me the most, but I like the new combat on foot. Would there be a way to invert this for only horseback? Or atleast an option so that we can swing towards the camera?

 

[Kissaki]

I just switched to the old combat system at the options screen, which has always worked fine for me.

 

[jockey]

i really hate fighting on horseback now its nearly impossible. it should be the same as before you could choose which side to attack on any way then and now its just really hard.

 

[Sir Saladin]

i really hate fighting on horseback now its nearly impossible. it should be the same as before you could choose which side to attack on any way then and now its just really hard.

lol I just saw yellow direction arrows circling round my head and I almost galloped off of a cliff. Just switch back to the old way in the option screen.

 

[jrawlings]

I guess that works... you can toggle it when you are mounted or dismounted.

Maybe adding it as a toggle in the options:

Mounted combat: mouse or traditional
Melee combat: mouse or traditional
Blocking: mouse or traditional

I haven't tried swinging while on horseback so I really can't sympathize with you just yet. I'll be trying in the next day or two, though.

 

[TheMany]

Really bugging me is that when mounted with a sword of war I almost always swing TOWARDS THE CAMERA wich is annoying as I generaly have the camera pointed at my prey, oh, and this is in both 1st and 3rd person views. Or else I jab with the sword, it's extremely frustraaing. This is with mouse attacking.

EDIT: Post (that hasn't been deleted) #2100.

Agreed. Of all the new changes, this bothered me the most, but I like the new combat on foot. Would there be a way to invert this for only horseback? Or atleast an option so that we can swing towards the camera?

i can't hit a damn thing now, invert it please!

 

[Othello]

i really hate fighting on horseback now its nearly impossible. it should be the same as before you could choose which side to attack on any way then and now its just really hard.

Same here. It takes me a good 20 seconds to figure out how to set up my attack. The main problem is the new system is oeverlapping with the new mounted system. You used to have to look towards the enemy to get the low, sweeping strike for hitting footmen. Now, if you look to the side, you get the regular swing, which cant hit infantry men. You literally have to not move the mouse for a few seconds in order to set up a swing. Gah.